RAM help needed

[Emultra]

I'm hoping to upgrade my early 2005 rig in maybe 6 months. Until then I want to get some more RAM, because Wrath of the Lich King is giving my computer a hard time. It's Asus A8N-SLi Deluxe (nForce 2 right?), AthlonXP 3200+ (Winchester core), 1Gb Corsair RAM (512x2).

Any time I enter a more active area now, my computer grinds to a near halt and has to sound like a lumber mill for a while before I can continue.

Now, I'm wondering what I should get. This is a short term solution since I'm getting a new mobo, CPU and RAM in time for summer (hopefully). Video card right now is GF 7600GT which seems adequate. I think the measly 1Gb RAM is the offender here since I get pretty OK fps when the computer isn't busy processing surroundings.

I'm using PC3200 RAM right now. Would my rig support DDR2? The older stuff seems both slow and expensive now. Maybe 1Gb of something? I think my Winchester core CPU will lower the RAM from 266Mhz to 200 if I get more than my current 1Gb, but it should be worth it.

 

[theAnimal]

Here you go.

 

[Emultra]

I live in Sweden but I think I found something similar:

2Gb CL3 for $82 - http://www.dustinhome.se/pd_50...relse_Pricerunner_5337

1Gb CL2.5 for $53 - http://www.dustinhome.se/pd_50...relse_Pricerunner_5337

Shipping included in those prices. I'm already using 2 out of 4 RAM slots with my 2 x 512's. Is it bad to fill them all up? I guess it won't make much difference between those two though, since the 1Gb deal is for 2 x 512. In fact I think they're the exact same as the one's I'm using. Maybe I should go with that, I think 2Gb in total will do until I do an overhaul of my system, and the less I spend on this temporary solution, the more I'll have when it's time to upgrade for real.

The 2Gb says "retail packed", I hope that only means retail vs bulk, as opposed to retail vs refurbished...

 

[theAnimal]

You could buy the 2GB and sell your current 1GB to make up the difference.

 

[Denithor]

WoW definitely needs more CPU and RAM than GPU. You want at least 2GB in XP or it's going to grind a lot as it reads from the hdd extensively.

That said, you've got a problem. Your system requires DDR and won't use DDR2 (not supported by AMD until AM2 chips). So if you buy more memory now you won't be able to use it in your upgrade in six months. And just increasing your memory may not give you a significant performance increase because your processor is really too slow for gaming use these days (WoW has been updated to take significant use of dual core processors).

 

[Emultra]

That's why I'm considering going with the minimal upgrade right now. The RAM will have to be replaced when I get a new motherboard and CPU, which is why I'm thinking +1Gb might be more suitable. Should be worth it for 6 months use.

Do you think the gain will be appreciable? It seems HDD reading is the problem, even if the CPU is a bottleneck as well. How much does going from 266Mhz to 200 and filling up all 4 RAM slots factor in?

 

[Emultra]

No objections to the 2x 512Mb then? I'm reaching for my Visa.

 

[Concillian]

The old Athlon64s had some issues with 4 DIMMs as they were still working out the kinks of the on-die memory controller, but I think this was mainly an issue with 1GB DIMMs. I think 4x 512MB DIMMs will be fine. Just be aware that you might have to add latency to the RAM, or run them 2T command rate instead of 1T, but the performance gain from adding more RAM will FAR outweigh any detrimental effects of increasing latency.

Your processor is an Athlon64 (not an AthlonXP as you note)
Your Motherboard is nForce4 (not nForce2 as you note)

 

[myocardia]

Your processor won't run 4 sticks of RAM @ 200 Mhz/400 DDR, no matter what command rate you try to run the RAM. Only E4 and higher steppings will. If you decide to go with 4x512MB sticks, you'll not only have to run them @ a 2T command rate, you'll also have to lower your RAM's speed to 166 Mhz.

 

[Emultra]

"Your processor is an Athlon64 (not an AthlonXP as you note)
Your Motherboard is nForce4 (not nForce2 as you note)"

Yep, thanks for the corrections. Been away from the hardware scene for too long...

Myocardia: "Your processor won't run 4 sticks of RAM @ 200 Mhz/400 DDR, no matter what command rate you try to run the RAM. Only E4 and higher steppings will. If you decide to go with 4x512MB sticks, you'll not only have to run them @ a 2T command rate, you'll also have to lower your RAM's speed to 166 Mhz."

But Concillian's statement "the performance gain from adding more RAM will FAR outweigh any detrimental effects of increasing latency" still stands?

 

[myocardia]

Oh yeah, he's right. There's nothing worse than not having enough RAM, especially when gaming. I just wanted you to know before you ordered two more 512MB sticks that four sticks aren't going to perform as well as 2x1GB sticks would. Having the memory controller on-die helps with running the RAM at lower speeds, though. The performance penalty is nowhere near the performance penalty you get from running the RAM slower than the FSB when the memory controller is in the northbridge chipset, like you could do with the Athlon XP's.

 

[Emultra]

So all in all, it's worth it? I can't imagine it being as bad as having to read from the HD. 15 seconds of lockdown followed by another 15 with 10 fps...

 

[myocardia]

Will it be a bit slower than 2x1GB sticks? Yes. Will it be WAY better than 1GB? Yes.

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: myocardia
The performance penalty is nowhere near the performance penalty you get from running the RAM slower than the FSB when the memory controller is in the northbridge chipset, like you could do with the Athlon XP's.

And even the worse performance penalty with AMD XP chips wouldn't be as bad as having your system grind to a halt while it reads from the HDD for 10-15 seconds...

Go for it, that 1GB extra should make a big difference for you.

 

[Emultra]

On further observation, when playing WoW my computer really is much slower than it should be. Alt-tabbing to do something can take a minute, and it's just sluggish. My friend has 1Gb as well and he doesn't get nearly as high loading times and computer "freeze lag".

Maybe my existing RAM sticks have gone bad? My CPU seems to run at 40-42C and video card (although it wouldn't cause these problems I think) ~56C. Maybe I should go for the 2x1Gb 3CL instead of 2x512 2.5CL and replace the ones I have.

Performance in the old continents is better, but of course those are less populated now. Shattrath City was always fine for me during off-hours but at peak time it was slow. I hope it doesn't have anything to do with the internet connection...but then I wouldn't have the problems alt-tabbing and such.

I guess processing other players is taxing of the RAM?

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Emultra
I guess processing other players is taxing of the RAM?

No, processing the other players is taxing the CPU. Wow is a very CPU-bound game. That's also most likely the reason that your friend's system with 1GB of system RAM Alt-Tab's faster, loads faster, etc-- he has a dual-core CPU. WoW has been dual threaded for quite some time now.

 

[Emultra]

Pentium 4 3GB according to him. Which makes me think there's something wrong with my CPU and/or RAM. Would there be any point in adding 2x 512 to an existing 2x 512 that might have defects?

 

[Emultra]

Bump, just this last question before I'm done, promise.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Emultra
Pentium 4 3GB according to him. Which makes me think there's something wrong with my CPU and/or RAM. Would there be any point in adding 2x 512 to an existing 2x 512 that might have defects?

How exactly is a system that has 3x as much RAM as yours "comparable"? Your forcing your system to use your hard drive in place of the RAM you're missing. Of course it's going to be slower. It's going to be MUCH, MUCH slower. That's what happens when you try to run a computer without enough RAM. If you think there's something wrong with your RAM (which is unlikely), then test your current RAM. But I can tell you now that "bad" RAM doesn't slow down a computer, it stops it. If you aren't getting BSOD's or at least CTD's (crashes to desktop), your only problem is having not nearly enough RAM.

 

[Emultra]

My bad, I meant to type Pentium 4 3Ghz. I'm not getting and BSOD's or CTD's though. Still a lot slower, with the same amount of RAM and his P4 3Ghz vs my Athlon64 3200+...

One thing to note is that since a couple of months back I've been getting occasional "comp freezes" where it's like a lag spike for about 2-3 seconds, and then I can hear some extra work being done when it goes back to normal. This can happen in WoW as well as in some offline games. CPU still running at 40-42C as far as I can tell.

 

[Emultra]

I went with the 2x 1Gb, gonna try to sell my current 2x 512's.