Raising the voltage it'd fry my 5850?

[khrystiano]

Hi, I got this card, a 5850 Sapphire Xtreme and the default voltage is 1088 with 725/1000 and 0.950 with 2d mode, qhen I raise the voltage with trixx (MSI is locked for me) the voltage won't get to idle anymore and i tried 1.18 voltage with 900/1200 and 78-80º full load but some people told me to not raise the voltage because I can fry or destroy my card and it's not safe, also they said I won't notice practically any difference so I'm asking here.. what do you guys think?

Greetings!

 

[TemjinGold]

I think that card is so old that whatever you find unplayable now would still be unplayable. You should just sell it and upgrade if you want more performance.

 

[khrystiano]

Yep but I mean if its worth to raise the voltage for some old games like the witcher/witcher 2, far cry 2/3 and that stuff... and if it will fry the card at 78-80º..

Still, i don't know how my card worths right now and I got only 50$ so..

 

[.vodka]

No, you won't fry your card unless you set it to some stupid voltage for air cooling like 1.3v or 1.4v, this is where the cooling solution gets overwhelmed and you could damage something if you don't know what you're doing.

At the 1.2v you're right now you won't fry your card, but keep an eye on the temperature. 80° is already on the upper limit of what you want if you intend to keep the card for a long time. These things have no problem going higher than 80° but it's not what you want.

 

[khrystiano]

So I shouldn't get 1,18 volt 900/1200 / 80º max temp if I want to keep the card* for a long time? Maybe trying 1,15 or smth can I reach 900/1200? with stock voltage (1,08) I only reach 850/1000

 

[.vodka]

I'd say you're on the sane limit. If you wanna go "insane", go ahead, overvolt to 1.25v and see how much extra you can get out of the card.

50MHz for 0.07v isn't bad. Watch the temperature if you go higher. Another 0.07v to 1.25v should give you 950/1200 if it still scales that way. It's up to you if those extra 50MHz are worth it.

 

[khrystiano]

50mhz extra for risking my card isn't worth at all. I'm at 725/1000 by default so I think 1,15,1,18 for 900/1200 and 80º max temp it's worth if my card doesn't get fry but I really need to know for sure if that's a nice limit because some people told me that the sane li,mit is under 65º, but I'd like to go 940 and I don't know how much should I raise the voltage to get that, also, I haven't tried to setting the voltage bit by bit, I just read on a table on internet the values.

 

[.vodka]

If you were running 900/1200, 1.2v at 65-70°C it would be easy to recommend you to try 1.25v and see where that gets you, until hitting the 80°C safe temperature ceiling again, but you're not.

You're cooling limited at this point, and there isn't much point in buying better cooling for a 5850. You've already done a 175MHz OC there and extracted much of what your card can do.

If this OC hasn't made your games playable, then sell the card or save up for a better one sometime in the future. Something like a cheap/used 270x is already a huge improvement over your 5850, at similar power consumption.



I've been through your situation with a 6850, that ran 775/1000 stock, and OC'ed to 920/1180 on stock voltage (1.22v). Had to do a hard mod (soldering, etc, but simple) to get it higher, turned out to require 1.35v for 1000MHz, and the increased temperature/fan noise wasn't worth it at all for one or two FPS more.

 

[khrystiano]

Okay, thank you..

So here's the thing, people told me I won't get much difference, 10% better maybe, 2-3 fps but last night I tried 900/1200 @ 1,12v and I swear Far Cry 3 / The Witcher 2 went too much better than I expected, the bad thing? Maybe the fact of reaching 80º at 80% fanspeed, I don't care about the noise, I use earphones and it doesn't bother to me at all so basing me on what you've said to me, what voltage @ core/mem would you recommend me? Maybe some voltage that doesn't put the card so far, like 75º MAX temp?

I know I'm asking too much but right know im almost out of money and there's nothing like the 5850 in price/performance terms.

Greetings!

 

[.vodka]

Then if you don't care about noise, set the fan at 100% and overvolt/overclock until 80-85°C again. Up the voltage in 0.05v steps and see how much it overclocks, there will be a point where the required voltage far exceeds the frequency increase, and there you know you're well past your card's sweet spot.


The card won't throttle usually until 95°C (more or less this is the point, depends on the particular card) but then you can be certain such temperatures aren't good at all for the rest of the components on the card, on the long term. Temperature and voltage kill cards (or any chip), but especially temperature, and even more so at >80°C AND when you're already overvolting. A cold silicon chip is a happy silicon chip, that's why better cooling lets you overvolt more and with much less of a posibility of damaging the GPU/CPU/whatever. When I talk damage, it could be either a card that won't work anymore, or in your case, not being able to do 900MHz on 1.18v, requiring more... but then that's out of reach of your cooling solution. These two are the most usual failure modes once you start treading these waters.


You've been warned, if you want to keep overvolting to overclock more and you're already running at high temperatures, whatever might (or not) happen to the card in the near or long term is up to you. I wouldn't go past where you already are because it certainly isn't worth it for one or two FPS more (not to mention you are near or past your card's sweet voltage/frequency/temperature spot), but then it isn't my card :biggrin:



I mean, your card's GPU is built on a 40nm process, it can by definition take more voltage than the past 4 years' cards built at 28nm, but you can't overvolt with peace of mind because you're already at 80°C at 80% fan speed. See what I mean? If you were running much cooler 1.3v wouldn't be a problem for your GPU. Yet in the situation you are, it is.

 

[Sabrewings]

I agree with vodka. If you want max performance without regard for noise or heat output, put the fan at 100%, crank voltage to max, and keep increasing your frequency until you are either too hot (85C or more on air IMO) or it becomes unstable.

Also, keep checking your performance on numbered benchmarks. I've seen them start to go down after a point even though you're still increasing clock speeds. My guess is it has to do with the memory controllers, but that's another discussion. My point is to validate that going higher in frequency is still netting your more performance.

 

[khrystiano]

Oh, thank you and I get what you say but you didn't understand me or maybe I have explained bad (my english sucks), I don't wanna go far, I just wanna keep 900/1200 @ 1,18/or less, I said to go to 940 but It's just was an idea, I don't really need to go that far, the real question is: staying in 900/1200 @ 1,18 and maybe trying less voltage to keep the temp even low (I don't know if it'd work with 1,15 for example) is a good idea? I think it's a nice jump from 725/1000 and it's enough for me. About the risk of damaging the other components, the cpu stays at the same temp in every cases, the unique component that maybe will increase the temp when I overclock the gpu is the moba (PCH Diode I assume), it increases to 50º from 45º, I don't know if there's any risk on it but I think it's ok.

Also, we're in summer, my case is small and I only got 2 fans running (lateral and behind) so well.. that's why I ask, if stayin at that far would damage my PC...

@Sabrewing I'm aware of that up the mems can result in worse performance, I've set 25mhz bit by bit and tried benchmarks, so far it seems to be nice and the performance increased.

PD Sorry for my english

 

[.vodka]

900/1200, 1.18v at 80°C is fine. If you don't mind the noise, put the fan at 100% and it'll be a little cooler. The problem appears if you want to go higher, and we've warned you about it.

Keep the card as it is right now and you'll be fine.

 

[Sabrewings]

Then if you're ok with the current performance I would proceed as you suggest. First, I would increase fan speed to 100% if you're not concerned about noise. Then I would back off the voltage in small increments until you artifact or lose stability. Once you have it rock solid at the lowest voltage you can manage, call it good.

 

[khrystiano]

oKay, I really appreciate the help, the only problem now is I only can use Trixx and it doesn't respect the Powerplay so when I set a voltage it doesn't get low in 2d mode but the core/mems do

 

[khrystiano]

Then if you're ok with the current performance I would proceed as you suggest. First, I would increase fan speed to 100% if you're not concerned about noise. Then I would back off the voltage in small increments until you artifact or lose stability. Once you have it rock solid at the lowest voltage you can manage, call it good.

Okay, u mean to get less voltage, trying -5 by -5 from 1,18 til it becomes unstable at 900/1200 right?

PS: Forgot to mention I play at 1366x768

 

[khrystiano]

Now I'm trying to find out to active powerplay with Trixx since I'm voltage locked on MSI Afterburner but I just can't... the only way that works i to reset/suspend the pc :\...

Editing my bios and changing the voltages with RBE will brick my card?

 

[greatnoob]

Now I'm trying to find out to active powerplay with Trixx since I'm voltage locked on MSI Afterburner but I just can't... the only way that works i to reset/suspend the pc :\...

Editing my bios and changing the voltages with RBE will brick my card?

Not a good idea, besides your 5850 is on par with a 750 Ti albeit at higher power consumption. Tone down tessellation and you should be fine for another year or two.

This article benchmarks the 7850, 6850 and 5850 all on the same clock (860mhz):

We feel comfortable in saying that Radeon HD 5850 owners, and there are many, shouldn't feel compelled to 'upgrade' to a Radeon HD 6850 or HD 7850 on the rather large proviso that the majority of their gaming takes place at 1,920x1,080 resolution and below.

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/graphics/36269-amd-radeon-hd-7850-vs-6850-vs-5850-clocks/?page=6

Save up for next year's cards for a good jump in performance/watt/$ (expect GTX 680 like performance at <= 75w)

 

[khrystiano]

Thank you, i have news: I got 900/1200 with 1.095, it's that a problem for the GPU? max temp reached in games was 72º, isn't ok?

 

[greatnoob]

That's good to hear! Try a stress test to be sure you can use that config. Also, is that 1.095v at max clock (900/1200) or does that carry over to even idle clocks? If it reaches 1.095v at max clocks and does not stay at 1.095v at idle you should be good! If it's 1.095v even at idle, I think you'd be better off just going with default voltage and clocks. 72c should add a bit of life to your card, may even want to try 950 at 1.15 later down the road.

 

[khrystiano]

Okay so the card goes 900/1200 @ 1.095v / 72º max temp. I tried Unigine Heaven / Valley in Ultra several times and seems ok. the voltage doesn't fall back to idle, it stucks on 1.095, but this happens if I change the voltage with Trixx, if I don't touch the Trixx the voltage falls back to 0.950 / idle and 1.088 / load.

Whatever, the only thing that stucks is the voltage, the temp just decreases even with 1.095v and the temps stays over 40º as the core/mem falls back to 156/300 in 2d mode too.

What do you think?

I'm still trying to figure out how to set the voltage to 0.950 on idle. That's why I asked about editing the bios.

 

[khrystiano]

So what do you guys think about editing bios then?

 

[khrystiano]

I tried editing my bios with RBE and flashing with ATIWinflash and the voltage in load doesnt change, I tried 1,095 and but it goes to 1.088... what's wrong?

edit: I've tried this: http://www.overclock.net/t/1353325/tutorial-atiwinflash-how-to-flash-the-bios-of-your-ati-cards

and when I extract the bios with GPU-Z again and open it with RBE it shows me the voltages I set but it apparently doesn't change.. i don't know what is wrong.

 

[2is]

Not a good idea, besides your 5850 is on par with a 750 Ti albeit at higher power consumption. Tone down tessellation and you should be fine for another year or two.

This article benchmarks the 7850, 6850 and 5850 all on the same clock (860mhz):

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/graphics/36269-amd-radeon-hd-7850-vs-6850-vs-5850-clocks/?page=6

Save up for next year's cards for a good jump in performance/watt/$ (expect GTX 680 like performance at <= 75w)

A 750Ti blows away a 5850. I have an old 5870 and it only manages to trade blows with a 650Ti and lose almost outright when both are OC'd since the 650Ti OC's way better.

 

[khrystiano]

Okay! after many researchs I finally discovered the Asus GPU Tweak which let me set a voltage and this voltage falls back on idle!! nice , I don't know why this program allows me to modify the voltage and MSI doesn't...

Well I only have a problem, I can edit core/mem/voltage but the minimun mhz to the memz is 3000 and it doesn't let me set less than 3000mhz... any solutions for this? If I set the minimun (3000mhz) the GPU-Z shows me 725/9000 instead of 7251000