Raises

[Sphexi]

Here's the background:

Our company has a sales team, support team, and development team. There's management all over, but those are the primary parts of the company. We each have "metrics" that are used to measure our performance, but nothing special.

I'm in support, we hit our goals (which realistically aren't very high), but in addition to phone/email support we also do all account setups, minor programming, API integration with outside developers, etc. We also handle QA/UAT testing for all development items. Basically we do our jobs, plus we're borrowed by other parts of the company (we don't do internal billing so it's not very well tracked).

Sales was totally understaffed the last few years, and a lot of leads/opportunities went stale and were ignored, so we lost out on a lot of potential business. This is the fault of management and the sales department, not support.

Development is way behind on projects, and updates they do tend to break and have to be rolled back, so overall they've done a crap job all year. We have a huge number of developers too, all highly paid, yet do horrible jobs IMO. Bad processes, no central bug tracker, stuff like that. Once again not support's fault.

We were told that the company overall "did not meet goals" and so there would not be a lot of money for raises this year. Is it fair that our department is penalized for failures of other departments? Or that they still get to share in the tiny amount put aside for raises despite being bad performers? Most of the people in support work their asses off, work extra hours (no extra pay, we're salaried), do extra projects, etc. Sales work less hours than they're supposed to, development does the same. Now we're potentially losing people who are mad about not getting any raise.

This the same at most companies, or is this just a shaft deal for us? I can't complain too much as I did get a good raise, but I feel bad that people that worked hard didn't because some other slackers in the company don't care about their jobs.

 

[Jadow]

ugh...

 

[nickbits]

You're not entitled to a raise just because you're doing an awesome job.

Also support makes they cimpany no money which is part of the reason other depts make more.

 

[Glitchny]

My company works almost the same way. The studio I work in (around 70-80 people) has been the only one doing anything right for the last 8months (both other studio heads were fired and their studio's restructured, one of which we oversee now).

But raises etc are still based on the performance of the "company as a whole" so even though we've released one of the most popular products in our market we get shafted cause the others are doing so terrible.

 

[Tweak155]

Salaried support? What the heck? Is this a 9-5 job or 24/7?

Even if it was 9-5 I imagine you have outside-of-work-hours issues.

I'd jump ship either way unless your salary is $50-60k+.

 

[Sphexi]

You're not entitled to a raise just because you're doing an awesome job.

Also support makes they cimpany no money which is part of the reason other depts make more.

I kind of agree, but once again we're not just straight support. We have a lot of internal responsibilities that would normally be handled by a finance department, or development. I'm more of a BA at this point than anything else, I'm running a couple of projects for clients (that do make us money), but I'm considered support.

Salaried support? What the heck? Is this a 9-5 job or 24/7?

Even if it was 9-5 I imagine you have outside-of-work-hours issues.

I'd jump ship either way unless your salary is $50-60k+.

It's a 9-5, 40 hour work week. We do handle after-hours support (rotated), but it comes with an extra bonus per paycheck for every two weeks you're working it. I also have a company paid for iphone (and data plan), and we get really good medical/dental benefits. I'm not really saying we get underpaid, it's just that we do multiple jobs, and do them really well, but get the shaft while other departments that half-ass it still get raises (or at least share in the raise "bucket").

Also, we're salaried because in BC "high technology" workers are allowed to be salaried, and be exempted from things such as overtime. It's a wonderful loophole they use to keep us from getting paid for working more hours.

 

[ultimatebob]

Yep... doesn't really matter how well you're personally doing if the rest of the company isn't. If the company isn't making extra revenue for raises and bonuses, almost nobody is going to get a decent raise or bonus until things improve.

The chances of getting a decent raise are particularly bad right now, as the weak job market makes finding a higher paying job (that doesn't suck) even more difficult at the moment. Your bosses know that, so they're not worried about people jumping ship for greener pastures any time soon.

Perhaps you should think twice before putting in more free overtime next time... Even if the boss appreciates it, it sounds like you won't get much of a raise or bonus for it right now. Worse yet, your boss will get used to seeing you around working late or early, start to expect it, and start giving you increasingly unreasonable deadlines for your projects.

Trust me... I've been there, done that, and learned that lesson the hard way.

 

[Tweak155]

I kind of agree, but once again we're not just straight support. We have a lot of internal responsibilities that would normally be handled by a finance department, or development. I'm more of a BA at this point than anything else, I'm running a couple of projects for clients (that do make us money), but I'm considered support.



It's a 9-5, 40 hour work week. We do handle after-hours support (rotated), but it comes with an extra bonus per paycheck for every two weeks you're working it. I also have a company paid for iphone (and data plan), and we get really good medical/dental benefits. I'm not really saying we get underpaid, it's just that we do multiple jobs, and do them really well, but get the shaft while other departments that half-ass it still get raises (or at least share in the raise "bucket").

Also, we're salaried because in BC "high technology" workers are allowed to be salaried, and be exempted from things such as overtime. It's a wonderful loophole they use to keep us from getting paid for working more hours.

When I did tech support I was salaried but known as "exempt". Aka, I had a minimum wage but not a maximum. I was paid time and a half for OT hrs and double time and a half for holiday hours. And we had yearly bonuses and raises, not to mention home internet, phone, printer & office supplies paid for. Medical and dental (my medical just paid for an entire MRI for my wife - 0 charge to us).

If you are paid well you can't complain too much. I was overpaid I think so I never complained they didn't pay enough, I just didn't like that they paid some of us way more than others ($15k difference is not unheard of).

If you think you're fairly compensated I won't argue you. I'd still say if it is less than $50k by a good margin, it wouldn't hurt to look elsewhere.

 

[PricklyPete]

This is typical of a lot of companies. Start reaming the other departments.

 

[Gibson486]

You have a choice....go on the open market which has a crazy candidate to job ratio of something like 200:1, or just take it.

 

[Sphexi]

I'm not planning on leaving, I like my job ...I was just curious about the raise process, just seemed kind of unfair to me. If it's the standard way of handling things then I understand though.

 

[spidey07]

I'm not planning on leaving, I like my job ...I was just curious about the raise process, just seemed kind of unfair to me. If it's the standard way of handling things then I understand though.

It is. Overall company performance drives compensation for everybody. Except sales and development - they always get the biggest raises because they actually make the company money as opposed to costing it money (like support).

 

[dougp]

You're not entitled to a raise just because you're doing an awesome job.

Also support makes they cimpany no money which is part of the reason other depts make more.

Wait, what? Support is what KEEPS a customer, not sales.

 

[Gibson486]

Wait, what? Support is what KEEPS a customer, not sales.

but support would not exist without sales.

 

[spidey07]

Wait, what? Support is what KEEPS a customer, not sales.

Support is not a profit center, it is a blackhole cost center. It doesn't make the company any money.

The sooner one learns this and gets to the side that makes the company money the better your career will be.

 

[dougp]

Support is not a profit center, it is a blackhole cost center. It doesn't make the company any money.

The sooner one learns this and gets to the side that makes the company money the better your career will be.

That's odd, my company had clients coming to them because we actually had a good support structure, while others didn't.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

You sound like you have a good paying job with good benefits and received a raise. Why are you concerned with what everyone else makes or who got a raise or who didn't?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

We were told that the company overall "did not meet goals" and so there would not be a lot of money for raises this year. Is it fair that our department is penalized for failures of other departments? Or that they still get to share in the tiny amount put aside for raises despite being bad performers? Most of the people in support work their asses off, work extra hours (no extra pay, we're salaried), do extra projects, etc. Sales work less hours than they're supposed to, development does the same. Now we're potentially losing people who are mad about not getting any raise.

That's the way the world works. If your company doesn't have money, it typically doesn't matter whose fault it is -- everyone pays the price, unfortunately. I've been in the same boat numerous times and it sucks, but that's the way it is.

You also don't know that these guys are bad performers. If they're behind as you claim they are, they are probably being pressured to release things in an unfinished state. On the surface, it might appear that they're bad performers, but put yourself in their shoes and you might find that the only people to blame are those in management. How do you know what they're working on or how much extra time they're spending on work? If you really do know the answer to these questions, I'd say you are probably spending too much time worrying about others and not enough time worrying about yourself.

I know many people who haven't got raises in several years, so I am thankful for what I do get. If I were in their position though, I'd be moving on.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Perhaps you should think twice before putting in more free overtime next time... Even if the boss appreciates it, it sounds like you won't get much of a raise or bonus for it right now. Worse yet, your boss will get used to seeing you around working late or early, start to expect it, and start giving you increasingly unreasonable deadlines for your projects.

Trust me... I've been there, done that, and learned that lesson the hard way.

Exactly. Businesses do what is in their own best interest, and people should conduct their professional lives as if it were a business. Working overtime with no additional compensation should be the exception, not the rule. Like ultimatebob, I learned my lesson the hard way and got more and more work when I put in tons of overtime at my last company. True, I did get decent raises, but it wasn't worth it as I didn't get a promotion out of it and gave up too much of my valuable time for nothing.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

That's odd, my company had clients coming to them because we actually had a good support structure, while others didn't.

Support is an overhead department. I don't like that viewpoint as I like to view a company and its business endeavors as a team accomplishment (ie, sales can't sell a product and keep customers without support), but nevertheless, that is how support is viewed. Now, if you are a paid support department (IE, each support incident costs the customer and therefore makes money for the company), that's different.

If you work in IT though, chances are that you are considered overhead unless 1) You're a consultant who bills per hour; 2) You're a developer in a software company; or 3) The exception I mentioned above. There might be a few other minor exceptions as well, but I think that covers most of the exceptions. That's why when there are layoffs, overhead operations (IT, HR, finance, facilities, middle management) are typically the first to go.

 

[Jeff7]

There haven't been raises here for close to 2 years. When sales are down by a substantial amount, well, costs need to be cut.

 

[ultimatebob]

Support is not a profit center, it is a blackhole cost center. It doesn't make the company any money.

The sooner one learns this and gets to the side that makes the company money the better your career will be.

That depends... how much does your company charge for the "premium" 24/7 support package?