Well . . since higher minimun wages are not evil . . and these crazy corporations are just there to make money and they should be supporting workers, and that we have tons of people being head of household and raising families on minimun wage . . we should just raise the wage up to something that is livable . . . I think about $15 an hour is good.
15 an hour would KILL the economy. At that point it's not cost effictive to hire most low income jobs. Cashiers getting paid 15 an hour!?!? Are you serious?
while it is true that there is a relationship between minimum wages and unemployment, there are so many other factors at play that you'd be ignorant if you believed that it was always a direct relationship.
look at massachussets and connecticut, which have near the highest minimum wage rates in the nation at around $7.00, and kansas which has a minimum wage rate of $2.65. all three states have nearly the same unemployment rate at 4.7%.
look at ohio, where the unemployment rate is 7th highest in the nation, but it's minimum wage rate is only $4.25.
look at massachussets and connecticut, which have near the highest minimum wage rates in the nation at around $7.00, and kansas which has a minimum wage rate of $2.65. all three states have nearly the same unemployment rate at 4.7%.
look at ohio, where the unemployment rate is 7th highest in the nation, but it's minimum wage rate is only $4.25.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Stunt
Diamond Member
- Jul 17, 2002
- 9,717
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You can get in a debate all day over what the minimum wage should be set at.
The states should set it at a level that they feel is livable. ie. cheapest house, cheapest food, bus pass.
And that is all they are trying to do.
Do you really want employees that smell cuz they can't shower. Or faint becasue they dont eat. Or are late because of distance to affordable housing.
Like i mentioned above. If minimum wage wasn't there it is my belief that companies will employ the same number of people at a cheaper rate rather than hire more.
If you have a better idea...lets hear it...it's easy to criticize.
Again...we are dealing with a VERY small percent of the population. This is not the solution to the unemployment
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Originally posted by: Stunt
You can get in a debate all day over what the minimum wage should be set at.
The states should set it at a level that they feel is livable. ie. cheapest house, cheapest food, bus pass.
And that is all they are trying to do.
Do you really want employees that smell cuz they can't shower. Or faint becasue they dont eat. Or are late because of distance to affordable housing.
Like i mentioned above. If minimum wage wasn't there it is my belief that companies will employ the same number of people at a cheaper rate rather than hire more.
If you have a better idea...lets hear it...it's easy to criticize.
Again...we are dealing with a VERY small percent of the population. This is not the solution to the unemployment
I do have an idea. Lets keep minimum wage as minimum wage and not a "living wage". Employers who do not want crappy or untested employees won't pay minimum wage.
And no, there is no debate all day about where it should be set. My comments were about the process and argument used by the "raise it to $X" people. If $X is better than current minimum wage -then why not $X+5 ? Surely that would be better using their argument -no?
Minimum wage is not a living wage and in not intended to be such. It is to prevent those EVAL corporations from setting up sweatshops and hiring workers for nothing. However, even that has it's problems because IMO it's up to the individual as to whether they'll work for the pay offered. If people don't like the monetary compensation for their labor - they are more than free to quit and/or find other employment. Employees drive wages - if employers can't find enough "good" employees they have to increase their compensation.
CsG
ViRGE
Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
- Oct 9, 1999
- 31,516
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Getting back on target for a second, as a resident of Salem, Oregon, loki8481 is right in pointing out that line. To as far as I have seen, there is not a large number of people within the state who would traditionally work minimum wage jobs and now can't find them, the problem is continuing repercussions of tech fallout. Salem for example is losing its biggest private employer, Sumco USA, a silicon wafer manufacturer, as the head offices are consolidating the company towards the Cincinnati and Phoenix offices, and even that is just buying time and reducing the company to a point where it becomes a specialty manufacturer. Still, the company employed nearly 2000 people right before the start of the fallout, and they had a lot of contractors(electrical, etc) whose majority of business was with the company, not to mention they are the biggest user of resources in the city(better than half a mil a month of power and water each).
Their leaving in turn is undermining a whole lot of jobs, but as a technical facility, it was almost entirely staffed by skilled workers who had either BS/BA+ degrees, or over a decade and a half with the company. These people in turn often don't have another job lined up, since there simply aren't that many jobs of this type in the area. The fact of the matter is that the era of USA produced silicon wafers is coming to an end(a Chinese company is buying every piece of Sumco's equipment that they can get their hands on).
This is where much of the weakness in the state comes from. The state is full of tech workers that can't find a job in their field, too old to go to work for the State(since Salem is also the capitol), and other non-tech employers don't want due to a fear of these employees jumping ship if given a chance. The minimum wage being so high is just as a result of inflation that was started by the tech boom, and now keeps coming around as higher house prices, gas prices, etc; the real problem is that tech is dieing and there's nothing to replace it.
Their leaving in turn is undermining a whole lot of jobs, but as a technical facility, it was almost entirely staffed by skilled workers who had either BS/BA+ degrees, or over a decade and a half with the company. These people in turn often don't have another job lined up, since there simply aren't that many jobs of this type in the area. The fact of the matter is that the era of USA produced silicon wafers is coming to an end(a Chinese company is buying every piece of Sumco's equipment that they can get their hands on).
This is where much of the weakness in the state comes from. The state is full of tech workers that can't find a job in their field, too old to go to work for the State(since Salem is also the capitol), and other non-tech employers don't want due to a fear of these employees jumping ship if given a chance. The minimum wage being so high is just as a result of inflation that was started by the tech boom, and now keeps coming around as higher house prices, gas prices, etc; the real problem is that tech is dieing and there's nothing to replace it.
Just pay everyone what they want, don't worry about inflation at all.
There are reasons some people get paid minimum wage. They have never bothered to exceed the minimum standards of life. Is it my job to not only feed myself but also make sure that those who wish to do less should live a better lifestyle? Screw them. It would be nice if I could get them to pay some of my college loans because I actually spent the time and money to improve myself.
There are reasons some people get paid minimum wage. They have never bothered to exceed the minimum standards of life. Is it my job to not only feed myself but also make sure that those who wish to do less should live a better lifestyle? Screw them. It would be nice if I could get them to pay some of my college loans because I actually spent the time and money to improve myself.
or pehaps I just quoted the parts of the article backed by facts, not what the author decided to throw in there without any quotes, numbers, reports, etc.
EDIT: but your more than welcome to produce some numbers to back your side of the argument.
So it's better to be working and poor than not working and poor?
*does scale motion with hands* Hmmmm.
I don't doubt the correlation though. Poverty is a serious problem. I think we just need to find a better solution. Considering the country is spending a couple of a hundred BILLION dollars on Iraq and the Tsunami, perhaps we need to consider allocating some of that to training for the under and unemployed? OR come up with some innovative approaches.
Unfortunately, I don't have much faith that the word "innovative" is even in Bush's lexicon.
*does scale motion with hands* Hmmmm.
I don't doubt the correlation though. Poverty is a serious problem. I think we just need to find a better solution. Considering the country is spending a couple of a hundred BILLION dollars on Iraq and the Tsunami, perhaps we need to consider allocating some of that to training for the under and unemployed? OR come up with some innovative approaches.
Unfortunately, I don't have much faith that the word "innovative" is even in Bush's lexicon.
well when you frame it like that it seems like a hopeless situation. But there isnt a infinite amount of money, we cant just raise wages and expect everything to be A-OK, like in my example above, you either have 6 people working for less, or 5 people working and one unemployed. But the contsant is the employers cost of labor, with 6 people working instead of 5, you can get more work done for the same price, thus raising the value of the dollar, then those workers can buy more since the US dollar is worth more, and so on...
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