RAID0 SSD, TRIM and the future of SSD performance?

AbRASiON

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
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I just re-read Anand's review and several things have just occurred to me.

  • *The Intel G2 drives seem to not require TRIM at all, they are so well optimized.
    *The OCZ drives are slower at 4kb random writing, with or without TRIM, however they are still significantly faster than even a raptor for random access.
    *The OCZ drives are significantly cheaper (and only more so as soon as the G2 begins to steal their sales!) http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3608
    *The current price on Newegg for 2x OCZ Agility 120gb disks is $588, 240gb vs 160gb (possibly $558 if they let you do more than 1 rebate?)
    *The Intel G2 was slower in one benchmark significantly due to poor sequential write speed (photoshop)

Question time!
Will the 4kb random write speed double on the OCZ Agility disks in RAID0? I would suspect so but maybe there is a technical limitation I'm not aware of?
If it did double, they would now be up to 26mb/s for random 4kb write speeds with TRIM.
(That's only 14mb shy of the G2 and again significantly superior to any hard disk)

Anand says the Intel Matrix Storage driver isn't passing TRIM to disks.
When it is fixed and the OCZ firmware is fixed, will this automatically work in RAID mode also? Will all RAID controllers require new TRIM capable drivers?
(In my case, I own an Asus P6T X58 board)



My thinking is that come the end of the year, it will be a bit more expensive but OCZ will be able to offer amazing sequential read and write speeds, with very acceptable random speeds for less than Intel.
We may find that the wise bargain in 6 months is 2x120gb OCZ Agility disks for 199$ each and that a single Intel 160gb is simply too expensive and too small in comparison.
What are your thoughts?
P.S I am not an intel hater or "OCZ fanboy" - FWIW I just placed an order for 2 Intel 160gb G2's! but I'm wondering if come January a good alternative will be available, much cheaper.


Bonus question
Do SATA ports work at 300mb per controller or 300mb per channel?
If the 120gb OCZ's were in RAID-0 could the speed actually be 500mb read and possibly even up to 300mb writes? plus 26mb/s random 4k writes? That would be incredible.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
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Do SATA ports work at 300mb per controller or 300mb per channel?
per plug (channel)

My thinking is that come the end of the year
Just wait for the end of the year and see what actually happens. guessing ahead of time is no good. I would not buy any SSD today due to the current rapid price fluctuations. (I got my G2 for 230$ before they got rushed)

will this automatically work in RAID mode also
No, trim is not gonna work in raid for a very long time.

Will the 4kb random write speed double on the OCZ Agility disks in RAID0?
I am not positive, but i am inclined to say no
 

AbRASiON

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
861
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No TRIM under RAID setups sounds bad to me :( you'd think if the disks were physically identical it would work ok.
I am not waiting until the end of the year, my 160 G2's are already ordered, but I could put one in my work PC, one in my laptop and then buy 2 Agility drives

If SATA does 300mb per plug, I may see up to 400+ mb/s reads and 250+mb/s writes, that would be incredible.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
you'd think if the disks were physically identical it would work ok.
Has nothing to do with that. It is because the TRIM command is passed along from point to point, being forwarded as some unknown generic command by the controllers... except the way RAID (in those controllers) works is that it does NOT, EVER forward commands to individual drives without first comprehending them.
That is because it itself is supposedly the "drive". What it does is abstract. It gets a command, interprets it, makes a decision, and either forwards it or most likely modifies it and then forwards the modified command. This means for it to forward TRIM it must KNOW what trim is... it must be design to specifically be able to receive a trim command, and then generate one or MORE trim commands to its individual drives.

EX: File 1 is 1GB in size. It is split into 500 x 1MB stripes on drive A @ location 0-500, and 500 x 1MB stripes on drive B @ location 0-500. The OS sends a trim command to the "drive" (the raid array) to trim the file at location 0 through 1000. If it does not recognize the command, it just ignores it.
If it does recognize it and knows what to do with it, it must now split it into a trim command it will give drive A to trim its 500 x 1MB chunks from location 0-500... and a second trim command that will be given to drive B to trim it's 500 x 1MB chunks from location 0-500. Had it just forwarded it, both drives would have each trimmed 1GB of data in locations 0-1000. Aka in the WRONG LOCATION. Deleting real useful data and leaving the junk untrimmed. That would be a disaster.

If SATA does 300mb per plug
that is SATA gen2. Gen1 does half that.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
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Originally posted by: AbRASiON
Will the 4kb random write speed double on the OCZ Agility disks in RAID0? I would suspect so but maybe there is a technical limitation I'm not aware of?
If it did double, they would now be up to 26mb/s for random 4kb write speeds with TRIM.
(That's only 14mb shy of the G2 and again significantly superior to any hard disk)

Yes 4kb random speeds will almost double for a 2x raid0. But not the trim numbers, only the non-trim numbers as trim won't work with raid anytime soon. Still though, its not bad and you can improve on it even further down the road by expanding your raid0 array in adding a third and fourth SSD.

While people are talking a lot about trim support for win7 there has been zero rumor/mention of raid guys making trim work (even though it could work, in theory, if someone spent the money and time making it so).

2x raid0 doubles (or near doubles) the bandwidth, but does not improve the latency. Latency marginally degrades (almost immeasurable in benchmarks, but surely non-zero impact) because of the handling overhead introduced by the raid controller IC itself.

Originally posted by: AbRASiON
Bonus question
Do SATA ports work at 300mb per controller or 300mb per channel?
If the 120gb OCZ's were in RAID-0 could the speed actually be 500mb read and possibly even up to 300mb writes? plus 26mb/s random 4k writes? That would be incredible.

It is 300MB/s (less overhead, so more like 260MB/s) per port.

Yep your numbers are right, except your random 4k numbers are higher than they should be since you are doubling the trim numbers instead of the non-trim numbers.
 

AbRASiON

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
861
4
81
Makes RAID0 intel G2's a very attractive, albeit expensive option then.
500mb read, 140mb write, 78mb/s random 4k write, give or take 10% overall
Very nice, just it's currently 1000$ US :(

BTW
http://www.indilinx.com/
Click on projects then jetstream ........... damn
 

ilkhan

Golden Member
Jul 21, 2006
1,117
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basically if you are going to run under raid just find a used G1 drive, make sure its secure erased, and forget about TRIM.
 

UpstartXT

Senior member
Apr 3, 2008
209
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Wait, what?

Just to be clear, if you don't want to get a large G2, can you RAID 0 two G1s? I am able to buy two x-25M g1s (SSDSA2MH080G1) for 199 each. I was thinking of putting in RAID 0?
 

aka1nas

Diamond Member
Aug 30, 2001
4,335
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The OCZ Indilinx-based drives have Garbage collection now, which should work just as well in RAID as it's done at the firmware level on each drive.
 

UpstartXT

Senior member
Apr 3, 2008
209
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Well I should be more clear, I already have one X-25M G1 but was thinking it was not enough space (80g) so I should get another, but while I am it why not RAID 0 them