RAID Issue; none seem to know the cure! >:|

[SunSamurai]

Alright here is my sad story.

So i decided to 'upgrade' to XP Media 2005 from Vista. I have several hard drives, ranging from 300GB sata to 40GB IDE and several in-between. So i go and take two IDE drives a 120 and an 80 of different brands (yes I know, spare me). I format them I clean them out I make sure they are in shape, they are ready to go they have the eye of the tiger ect ect.

So before I start here is my setup;
1. MSI nForce4 (7125-60) It has a orange PCI at the bottem and a single 1xPCIe at the top.
2. 2GB C Value RAM
3. 3000+
4. 1 300GB SATA + 1 120 SATA also plugged in.
5. DVDR
6. x1900xt
7. Damned floppy drive

What DOES work;
1. The RAM is fine. Tested
2. The floppy drive is fine. Tested.
3. Floppy inside floppy drive is error free. Tested many times making sure data was not in cache from the hard drive and 100% from the floppy.
4. Hard drives work. Tested
5. CPU is stable.

The system is not overclocked.

-----

Not then, I put the raid drivers on the floppy. I check 3 different sites, the mobo site, the raid chip site (sil3114r) and nVidias site for drivers. I use the mobo sites drives as Im on dialup and downloading 39MB for 300KB worth of raid driver is ridiculous unless I know for a fact (why im here) that it will work.
I restart, I put the two IDE drives in a raid, they are happy together. Stripe, optimal (64k). I start installing windows, I press F6, I load the IDE drivers. WIndows gets to the selecting drive stage, I select the new RAID0 and quick format. Here is where the problem stops me. XP install tried to access the floppy again (previously successful) and it will not access the files it wants, though I know (by name at least of the files it wants) that the files are on the floppy. I cannot continue.

Here is where I get semi-creative.

1. I do this again, this time all file son the floppy are root dir. No folders. -FAILED
2. I do it again, this time I load the drives TWICE so a new option pops up "windows has these drivers would you like to install from windows or the floppy" Or something smiler, I choose to install from the floppy for the two IDE drivers. -FAILED
3. I do this again except I choose windows instead of the floppy. -FAILED
4. I do a combination of all the above, along with setting in the bios before i re-make the RAID that the BIOS go auto-piolet selecting what kind of IDE drives they are and accurately reporting drive stats. Not sure if that helps but.. it doesn't =D - FAILED
5. I do all the shit above in a combination with a different IDE slot and cable. -FAILED
6. I do all this shit again with a BIOS clear. -FAILED
7. By the way did I mention in between all of these things I get the infamous "KEYBOARD NOT DETECTED PRESS F1 TO CONTINUE BECAUSE THE BIOS PROGRAMMERS WERE NOT HIGH PROGRAMMING THIS MESSAGE". Also, my two IDE drives like to dissapear sometimes. I have to restart a few times for the BIOS to see them.

Here is why I wrote so damn much; I really want to avoid a BIOS flash unless someone knows for a fact that it will solve this issue with the RAID in this nForce4. I have looked online and several people have had the same issues. If someone knows maybe if I can edit one of the floppy RAID files, or possibly there is a setting in the BIOS to freak'n allow the XP install to access the floppy RAID drivers so I can live in peace without haveing to resort to slipsteaming?!


Thanks all for your help.

 

[Billb2]

I check 3 different sites, the mobo site, the raid chip site (sil3114r) and nVidias site for drivers. I use the mobo sites drives.

There's confusion here..............

Four things have to match:
The onboard RAID controller.
The RAID you set up in the BIOS.
The drivers you load from the floppy.
The size and speeds of the drives ... The RAID will be limited by the size of the smaller drive. Identical deives are highly reccomended. Mismatched drives with different seek/access times result in unstable arrays.
If srtiped (RAID0): 300gb + 120 = 240gb, not 420gb
If Mirrored (RAID1): 300gb + 120 GB = 120GB, not 420gb
If JBOD, then OK: 300gb + 120gb = 420gb (but no added RAID performance nor security, just one big drive)

The SI controller is not the prefered one. The Nvidia RAID controller is integrated into the northbridge chip, and as such, is much faster than the SI controller that is on a separate buss. The Nvidis controller also uses less system resources since it isn't on a separate buss that has to be managed by the CPU. The SI controller is usually used for external (backup?) drive. It is usually set up just as a nonRAID extrnal drive, or as a JBOD (just-a-bunch-of-drives) RAID with an internal drive (See: http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=472527)

Get the Nvidia Raid driver from MSI: I didn't see one that supports Vista though
[Lhttp://www.msicomputer.com/pro...c.asp?model=K8N_Neo4-F]http://www.msicomputer.com/pro...c.asp?model=K8N_Neo4-F[/L]]http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K8N_Neo4-F[/L]
Installation directions are also available there (Vista?).

The Nvidia drivere are native in Vista. It will ask about RAID in the beginning of the install. You don't have to load any drivers from a floppy.
Or you can download the Nvidia driver directly from Nvidia here I'm not sure which NF4 chipset you have though.
http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us
Installation instructions from Nvidia: http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi...type=answers.search_nl

If you still want to do this, one other typical failure is:
After you F6 the drivers and Windows Install finishes coping it files, it will reboot. When it does that, the BIOS is still not configured to boot drom the RAID (that choice didn't exist in the BIOS until the RAID is setup and the drivers were installed by Windows Install). So you have to interupt this reboot, set the new RAID as the BOOT device and reboot back into Windows Install. If you don't do this, windows will be installed onto the first single drive windows install sees, not the RAID.

If you want to set up the RAID as nonbootable storage, just install windows onto a drive, then setup the RAID in the BIOS, configure the RAID, and on the next boot use device manager to install the RAID drivers.

Good luck!

 

[SunSamurai]

Originally posted by: Billb2
I check 3 different sites, the mobo site, the raid chip site (sil3114r) and nVidias site for drivers. I use the mobo sites drives.

There's confusion here..............

Four things have to match:
The onboard RAID controller.
The RAID you set up in the BIOS.
The drivers you load from the floppy.
The size and speeds of the drives ... The RAID will be limited by the size of the smaller drive. Identical deives are highly reccomended. Mismatched drives with different seek/access times result in unstable arrays.
If srtiped (RAID0): 300gb + 120 = 240gb, not 420gb
If Mirrored (RAID1): 300gb + 120 GB = 120GB, not 420gb
If JBOD, then OK: 300gb + 120gb = 420gb (but no added RAID performance nor security, just one big drive)

?

There is no confusion here. The three places I listed each have drivers I need, depending on how quick they are one package might be more up to date. The size and speeds do not have to match. I dont really get this little lesson, as it has nothing to do with the problem? Ive done this several times on other systems with zero issue.

The SI controller is not the prefered one. The Nvidia RAID controller is integrated into the northbridge chip, and as such, is much faster than the SI controller that is on a separate buss. The Nvidis controller also uses less system resources since it isn't on a separate buss that has to be managed by the CPU. The SI controller is usually used for external (backup?) drive. It is usually set up just as a nonRAID extrnal drive, or as a JBOD (just-a-bunch-of-drives) RAID with an internal drive (See: http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=472527)

Get the Nvidia Raid driver from MSI: I didn't see one that supports Vista though
[Lhttp://www.msicomputer.com/pro...c.asp?model=K8N_Neo4-F]http://www.msicomputer.com/pro...c.asp?model=K8N_Neo4-F[/L]]http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K8N_Neo4-F[/L]
Installation directions are also available there (Vista?).

The Nvidia drivere are native in Vista. It will ask about RAID in the beginning of the install. You don't have to load any drivers from a floppy.
Or you can download the Nvidia driver directly from Nvidia here I'm not sure which NF4 chipset you have though.
http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us
Installation instructions from Nvidia: http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi...type=answers.search_nl

If you still want to do this, one other typical failure is:
After you F6 the drivers and Windows Install finishes coping it files, it will reboot. When it does that, the BIOS is still not configured to boot drom the RAID (that choice didn't exist in the BIOS until the RAID is setup and the drivers were installed by Windows Install). So you have to interupt this reboot, set the new RAID as the BOOT device and reboot back into Windows Install. If you don't do this, windows will be installed onto the first single drive windows install sees, not the RAID.

If you want to set up the RAID as nonbootable storage, just install windows onto a drive, then setup the RAID in the BIOS, configure the RAID, and on the next boot use device manager to install the RAID drivers.

Good luck!

I'm not sure you read my post. .................

Im installing XP Media 2k5. Im already using, like I said, the RAID drivers from MSI. (why you provided me with links there I dont understand).

The PROBLEM, like I said before, is that after pressing F6, it asks for the RAID drivers. Then it formats the drive after recognizing the RAID. Before it starts to load the files onto the RAID, it asks for access to the floppy again to load all the files it needs for XP itself to recognize the RAID. >>>>THE PROBLEM AT THIS POINT IS THAT IT REFUSES TO LOAD DATA FROM THE FLOPPY<<<< ... If you have questions reguarding the reliability of the floppy or the floppy drive refer to my first post.

Thank you for taking the time to write all that, but it had nothing to do with the issue I pointed out.


If anyone has had this issue please toss me a reply.

 

[Billb2]

Sorry for the long post, but I don't know what you don't know.........

So i decided to 'upgrade' to XP Media 2005 from Vista. I hope you mean a full install from a full install XP disk.

As far as I can tell, from MSI's website, your motherboard does not have a SI controller.
http://www.msicomputer.com/pro...el=K8N_Neo4-F&class=mb

- Two independent SATA controllers, for four drives

On-Board IDE/SATA

? An IDE controller on the nVIDIA nForce4 chipset provides IDE HDD/CD-ROM with PIO, Bus Master and Ultra DMA133/100/66 operation modes.
- Can connect up to 4 IDE devices
? NV RAID supports 4 SATA ports (SATA1-4). Transfer rate is up to 150MB/s.
? NV RAID (Software)
- Supports up to 4 SATA plus 2 ATA 133 Hard drives
- RAID 0 or 1, 0+1, JBOD is supported
- RAID function work w/ ATA 133 + SATA H/D or 2 SATA H/D

???????????

 

[SunSamurai]

Originally posted by: Billb2
Sorry for the long post, but I don't know what you don't know.........

So i decided to 'upgrade' to XP Media 2005 from Vista. I hope you mean a full install from a full install XP disk.

From my first post:
"So i go and take two IDE drives a 120 and an 80 of different brands (yes I know, spare me). I format them I clean them out I make sure they are in shape, they are ready to go they have the eye of the tiger ect ect."

As far as I can tell, from MSI's website, your motherboard does not have a SI controller.
http://www.msicomputer.com/pro...el=K8N_Neo4-F&class=mb

- Two independent SATA controllers, for four drives

On-Board IDE/SATA

? An IDE controller on the nVIDIA nForce4 chipset provides IDE HDD/CD-ROM with PIO, Bus Master and Ultra DMA133/100/66 operation modes.
- Can connect up to 4 IDE devices
? NV RAID supports 4 SATA ports (SATA1-4). Transfer rate is up to 150MB/s.
? NV RAID (Software)
- Supports up to 4 SATA plus 2 ATA 133 Hard drives
- RAID 0 or 1, 0+1, JBOD is supported
- RAID function work w/ ATA 133 + SATA H/D or 2 SATA H/D

???????????

........

http://global.msi.com.tw/index...incat_no=1&prod_no=249

I am using the RAID driver. So far I have had to repeat everything I already said in my first post. Please, understand, THE DRIVERS ARE CORRECT.
Even if they were not correct, that is a different issue. That would simply cause windows not recognize the RAID. That is NOT the problem I am having. The issue has to do with actually getting the information off the floppy in a certain step as described in my first post, and again below.


Last time; The problem is not the drivers, its not the floppy, nor the hard drives.

1. I press F6. I load the drivers.
2. Windows gets to the point where it sees my RAID.
3. I select the RAID and format
4. Windows install tries to access the rest of the drivers off the floppy and will not load them.
5. The files it wants ARE on the floppy and not in sub-directories.
6. The floppy has been tested and it is error free. I have used several disks.
7. If there was something wrong with the floppy or the floppy drive, the initial two drivers needed in step #1 before the format would not have worked.

THUS, once again, my question; why does windows install not want to retrive the data in step #4?

 

[Billb2]

Originally posted by: aeternitas
Last time; The problem is not the drivers, its not the floppy, nor the hard drives.

4. Windows install tries to access the rest of the drivers off the floppy and will not load them.
5. The files it wants ARE on the floppy and not in sub-directories.

THUS, once again, my question; why does windows install not want to retrive the data in step #4?

You could try pulling the disk and forcing Windows install to get the drivers from where it copied them.

Perhaps the array is corrupted (mis-matched drives?) and Windows Install can't write the drivers to it and hangs.

You could go through th trouble of breaking out of the install after the array is formatted, installing onto another drive, installing the RAID divers with Disk Manager and seeing if that install can access the array.

Other than those ideas ....don't know what else.

 

[Cr0nJ0b]

I read through this a couple of times and it's quite confusing to me. Let me see if I get this right.

you have a bunch of drives that you are trying to build into a RAID volume for your Media server. so...

1) you format each drive separately and test them
2) you boot into the BIOS and setup your disks in some sort of RAID volume
3) you then boot up and start a fresh install of XP MCE 2005.
4) during the install it asks you for a driver disk
5) you insert a floppy with the correct drivers from the motherboard website.
6) you are presented with the volume management screen and you see that the volume you created in the Bios is there and that the size is roughly what you expect
7) you format the volume and then proceed to the installation part...I think

This is where you are having issues I would guess. It's either not formatting or it is formatting but you can't install the OS.

My guess is this...XP allows you to format the device, but when it tries to access the device after the format it finds that it's not actually formatted correctly. I've never seen this before, but it's possible. If your drives of of very different sizes, the RAID chip, should correct them and create a volume from equal size pieces of each drive, but that may not happen. Again, I've never tried building a RAID0 stripe with different size drives. It's not recommended and I would never do this. If I had to guess I would say that this is your issue.

To check this, try the installation with just the 2 (120GB) drives in a RAID0 first. See if you get past the installation part. If that works, it's probably an issue with your using the 80GB drive along with the 120s. I'm not sure if it's possible, but check the BIOS to see if you can resize the 120GB drives to 80GB and then create a 3 drive stripe from the 80GB parts of each drive...this should work as well.

Hope this helps.

 

[SunSamurai]

Originally posted by: Cr0nJ0b
I read through this a couple of times and it's quite confusing to me. Let me see if I get this right.

you have a bunch of drives that you are trying to build into a RAID volume for your Media server. so...

1) you format each drive separately and test them
2) you boot into the BIOS and setup your disks in some sort of RAID volume
3) you then boot up and start a fresh install of XP MCE 2005.
4) during the install it asks you for a driver disk
5) you insert a floppy with the correct drivers from the motherboard website.
6) you are presented with the volume management screen and you see that the volume you created in the Bios is there and that the size is roughly what you expect
7) you format the volume and then proceed to the installation part...I think

This is where you are having issues I would guess. It's either not formatting or it is formatting but you can't install the OS.

My guess is this...XP allows you to format the device, but when it tries to access the device after the format it finds that it's not actually formatted correctly. I've never seen this before, but it's possible. If your drives of of very different sizes, the RAID chip, should correct them and create a volume from equal size pieces of each drive, but that may not happen. Again, I've never tried building a RAID0 stripe with different size drives. It's not recommended and I would never do this. If I had to guess I would say that this is your issue.

To check this, try the installation with just the 2 (120GB) drives in a RAID0 first. See if you get past the installation part. If that works, it's probably an issue with your using the 80GB drive along with the 120s. I'm not sure if it's possible, but check the BIOS to see if you can resize the 120GB drives to 80GB and then create a 3 drive stripe from the 80GB parts of each drive...this should work as well.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the reply!

This is good thinking, but sadly not the case. XP PRO goes though the install everytime, without a hitch. You are correct about where the problem occers. Directly after the format, and right before the install loads what it needs from the CD/DVD. If you have every had to do F6 to load floppy drivers you will notice it loads only two before the format so the installer itself can see the RAID. THE first thing the installer does after the format is load the rest of what is on the floppy for XP itself to be able to see the raid when it first boots up its GUI installer.

XP Media Center Edition : Halts after the format, refuseing to read from the floppy (not a floppy read error, simply will not even try to access the files, says they are unreadable or somesuch)

XP PRO: Reads everything off the same floppy without any fuss.

I have tried with three floppies, and many XPPRO/XP MCE installs and this remains true, thus it is an issue with the mobo/XP MCE.

I cannot seem to find out how to get passed this block.


I am typing this in Win XP PRO on a RAID0 doing the same method of F6 as described, so I know its not the drives. This is really redic

 

[systemf99]

It has to do with the version of windows disk you are trying to install. Meaning certain types of OEM disks have issues installing using F6 and loading drivers. Other XP editions have the same problem to, just depends what the origin of the XP disk is.

 

[SunSamurai]

Originally posted by: systemf99
It has to do with the version of windows disk you are trying to install. Meaning certain types of OEM disks have issues installing using F6 and loading drivers. Other XP editions have the same problem to, just depends what the origin of the XP disk is.

Indeed, but what I'm trying to determine is how to fix it.