RAID 0 slower booting than single drive - SSDs

[Mirddin]

Alrighty, my quandary is that my 2 SSDs in RAID 0 are slower booting into Windows 7 64-bit than a couple of other systems that just have a single SSD. Unless I’m somehow mistaken, shouldn’t 2 SSDs in a RAID 0 boot up faster than a single? I’m not including POST times here. I’m talking about from when “Starting Windows” appears on the screen and the orbs start flying in to make the windows logo. On the two systems with single SSDs the orbs don’t get to finish flying in to make the logo before it moves on and the desktop appears. They take roughly 8-10 seconds to get to the desktop from “Starting Windows” whereas my RAID system takes more along the lines of 45 seconds. I have other larger storage drives in the machine and it doesn’t seem to matter if they’re connected or not, boot time is the same. I recently upgraded the system and reinstalled Windows 7 in different stripe sizes; 32, 64, and 128. 32 seemed slowest while 64 and 128 were comparable so I settled on 128 for now. I’m just wondering what am I doing incorrectly to make my system take longer than the others to boot up. Any ideas? System specs below.

RAID System
i7 3770K
Asus P8Z77-V Deluxe
2 x OCZ Vertex 3 120 GB SSD (RAID 0 on Intel 6 Gbps controller, firmware 2.22 but also tried firmware 2.15)
LG Blu-Ray drive
1 TB Western Digital Black (Marvell 6 Gbps Controller)
2 TB Western Digital Black (Marvell 6 Gbps Controller)
Windows 7 64-bit Ultimate

System 1
i3 2100
ASRock H67M
OCZ Vertex 3 MAX IOPS 120 GB SSD (Intel 6 Gbps controller, firmware 2.15)
LG Blu-Ray Drive
2 TB Western Digital Black (forget which controller this is on)
Windows 7 64-bit Pro

System 2
i5 3570K
ASRock Z77 Pro 4M
Crucial m4 128 GB SSD (Intel 6 Gbps controller)
2 x DVD Burners
500 GB WD Green (Intel 3 Gbps controller)
1 TB WD Black (Intel 3 Gbps controller)
Windows 7 64-bit Pro

 

[Mirddin]

Just to clarify: I know there is no advantage at all to plugging in the HDDs to the Marvell 6Gbps ports (even if they were 6 Gbps HDDs). Frankly those ports were ever so slightly easier to get to than the others and that's why they were used.

 

[kbp]

Just to clarify: I know there is no advantage at all to plugging in the HDDs to the Marvell 6Gbps ports (even if they were 6 Gbps HDDs). Frankly those ports were ever so slightly easier to get to than the others and that's why they were used.

Yep....And putting then there, you then have to load the Marvel boot OROM and drivers which takes longer. Get your spinners on the Intel ports and shut the Marvel ports off in bios and then look at your boot times.

 

[el-Capitan]

I too have 2x Vertex 3 120G in RAID 0 on Intel 6Gbps, but on a Z68 mobo. Several months after install the boot is still very fast with the orbs never touching and the desktop appearing immediately.

I can't offer a solution. Only confirming that something is off in your setup.

I assume you have tried to unplug all other storage and update firmware and drivers? How does a single drive perform on that particular machine?

 

[bryanW1995]

There is definitely an issue, though it could just be something simple like disabling the Marvel boot OROM. When I first had my m4's in RAID 0, it took 10-15 seconds of loading up the RAID array before I would even get to the "windows is loading" screen. Since I rebuilt the array a couple of weeks ago, it is nearly instantaneous.

 

[Mirddin]

Well as suggested I plugged the spinners into the Intel 3 Gbps SATA ports and disabled the Marvell ones altogether. It took a second or two off the POST/detection phase, but that was not my concern to begin with. Honestly, I didn't expect this to make a difference in the Windows load time. It still takes longer to load Windows than the single drive machines. The orbs are able to make the full logo and pulse a few times before the log in screen comes up.

My iRST version is 11.0.0.1032 which is what came with the motherboard so it has not changed at all since I installed.

I'm at a loss. I have absolutely no clue why this machine is slower. I do not know how it performs with just one SSD on this machine. I'd have to wipe and reinstall to just one drive to find out and I'd prefer not to do that until I have an answer to why this is happening that will correct the issue. So I'm still open to suggestions or hypotheses!

 

[kbp]

I think you have way too much loading in bios. Another thing to turn off is that logo.
My Asus P8Z68 deluxe with 2 RAID-0 volumes loading takes less than 18 seconds.

 

[mrpiggy]

From the "starting Windows" to desktop, will generally take about the same time with 2 SSD's in RAID0 as opposed to 1 SSD. you won't see much if any benefit on that particular aspect of booting Windows with RAID0. That being said, there is something wrong if your RAID0 SSD's are taking 4-5 times longer than a single SSD. RAID0 booting might not generally be much faster in real life, but it certainly shouldn't that much slower.

Only thing I can guess at is that the RST drivers are borked in some fashion, or perhaps the SSD's are not playing nice together in RAID. RAID0 SSD boot time should definitely be faster than 45 seconds from starting windows to desktop on a fresher Windows install.

Here's how I would troubleshoot (from easiest to most work):

-Turn off the Marvell port in BIOS, disconnect all other drives (including optical), and check boot times.
-Move both SSD's from Intel 6G ports to intel 3G ports and check boot times.
-Stick the two SSD's in one of your other PC's and check the boot time. (you just have to enable the RAID option and the existing SSD RAID should work on the other system's Intel ports.
-Completely reinstall Intel inf updates "and" Latest RST drivers.
-Re-install Windows and try again..

 

[bryanW1995]

This is interesting. I experienced a complete power loss at my house on Saturday. Not a cloud in the sky, but the whole neighborhood lost power for several hours. Anyway, since that experience it's taken about 30-45 seconds from seeing the RAID menu to getting into windows, vs probably 10 seconds prior to that. Computer is working fine now other than the extremely long boot time. I reboot so rarely that I'm willing to chalk it up to "meh" right now, but I am concerned that something isn't quite right at the circle K...

 

[ZeroRift]

Do you have any other peripherals on your system? (sound cards, NICs, Raid Controllers) Windows can take a long time to initialize those regardless of your storage. I would suggest disconnecting all unnecessary items, then reboot a couple times and see if windows moves any faster. What does HDD tach say about your in-OS performance of the drives? Are you sure the array is performing as expected after the OS loads?

Also - verify some of your BIOS settings are the same accross builds. I'm thinking specifically AHCI and Plug & Play OS....

 

[bryanW1995]

I literally changed nothing at all. I had to reboot the system one day last week b/c of a windows update, and it was lightning fast. I had to reboot Sunday morning after the power loss Saturday night, and it took 30-45 seconds from the RAID screen to windows icon.

I'll reboot tonight when I get home, and if it's still doing it I'll run AS-SSD and compare it to my earlier results. However, the system feels just as "snappy" as the first day I switched to RAID array, and I was easily able to tell the difference between the RAID array and just a single m4.

 

[ZeroRift]

Sorry, my post was more in reply to Mirddin...

It still won't hurt to check the health of the array. Are you using onboard raid or a 3rd party controller? Regardless, it will likely require significant time and effort to get the RAID array to initialize quickly again (i'm thinking worst-case: rebuild). So if you really don't care about boot times I would just look in the RAID settings menu and check the status of the array and controller to make sure everything's alright. If it says you're good, then I wouldn't worry too much about it.

If the data on your stripe is critical (which it shouldn't be if you're striping drives....) just take a fresh backup for piece of mind.

 

[bryanW1995]

Naw, my data isn't critical at all. I just like the blazing speed of RAID. I don't even have anything else plugged into my system right now, though I'll probably plug in my old 2tb data drive at some point.

 

[Mirddin]

Thanks for the replies. I did end up reinstalling windows again this past weekend (1) because I was getting a new GTX 670 and (2) to see if I could work out the RAID speed issues.

I did install Windows on just one SSD in the system to compare and it wasn't any faster than the 2 in RAID 0. There's definitely something specific to this system that would be causing it. I just replaced Motherboard, CPU (and cooler), RAM, and GPU. The hold overs from my last build are the Blu-ray, PSU, TV tuner card, HDDs, and case (only mention the case cause it has one esata port which I do currently have plugged in to the mobo). When I installed Windows I only had the Bluray drive and SSDs plugged in to the SATA ports, tuner was in the machine, GPU was not. Having the other HDDs unplugged or plugged in made no difference in the windows start time. At the time I hadn't checked this forum again, so I have not tried with all peripherals unplugged, I will give that a shot. I may also try putting them in one of the other systems just to see how they boot there.

The system is plenty responsive when I actually get in windows, but its irksome that a setup that should be "superior" in performance boots slower than the others! I appreciate all the help, keep any suggestions you may have coming in!

 

[Mirddin]

So a little update - I tried booting up with anything non-essential unplugged from the motherboard. Did not seem to change the boot times at all. I haven't yet tried these drives on another computer (will do that Friday actually).

Some more background. I previously had these drives installed on an older motherboard (Asus P5W-DH Deluxe LGA 775 w/ a Core 2 Duo E6600) in RAID 0. Even on that board the Windows load times were not spectacular. At the time I attributed it to the fact it was running through SATA II 3 Gbps. I had the Vertex 3 MAX IOPS drive in that system first as well, then replaced that with the 2 vertex 3s. I put the Max IOPS in a different machine with SATA III 6 Gbps and noticed a huge improvement in the windows load times. I was expecting similar here when I upgraded the motherboard, etc.

Today when I unplugged all non-essentials the only thing left connected to the machine that was a hold over from the previous system is the PSU. It's not the latest greatest (anymore), but it's certainly no slouch. It's an Enermax REVOLUTION85+ 1050W (ERV1050EWT). Do you, the collective Anand community, think that the power supply could be the culprit in all this? I do have other power supplies, but they're in other systems at the moment. I may end up begrudgingly undoing one and seeing if it makes any difference, but wouldn't mind hearing a few opinions first.

 

[ZeroRift]

I would not suspect the power supply in this case. SSDs just don't consume much power....

It's more likely Windows is waiting for some piece of hardware to initialize before it can finish loading. What that hardware is may be hard to determine.

If you try the drives in another system, and that system boots just as fast / faster, then you know it's not the drives themselves. I think you've also eliminated just about every other piece of hardware. This leaves BIOS settings. Have you verified BIOS settings are comparable across your builds? IE: AHCI, plug and play OS, etc...

You should also check out your event log: Applications and Services Logs -> Microsoft -> Windows -> Diagnostics-Performance. Events 100 - 110 will cover boot timing.

 

[Zxian]

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/140247-trace-windows-7-bootshutdownhibernatestandbyresume-issues/

Follow the instructions and then have a look at the resulting service graph. You'll get an exact breakdown of what's taking all the time to load up.

On my old system (ASUS Maximus Formula, Q9950, single Vertex3 120GB) the orbs would still form a complete logo before moving on to the login screen. On my new system, they move about halfway and the windows flag never actually forms during the boot screen.

 

[vol7ron]

Some more background. I previously had these drives installed on an older motherboard (Asus P5W-DH Deluxe LGA 775 w/ a Core 2 Duo E6600) in RAID 0. Even on that board the Windows load times were not spectacular.

I saw this and I sat here thinking... that's exactly what I have (mobo and CPU) and it's ancient and still live and going strong. Upgrading soon, or next summer (wasn't too impressed with ivy).

The culprit could be a number of things:
- power supply
- south bridge voltage
- your cords
- mobo problem
- controller issue (make sure your RAID controller has updated drivers/firmware - also make sure your mono firmware is up to date)

Start your computer in safe mode and see if you still have the same problem.

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/140247-trace-windows-7-bootshutdownhibernatestandbyresume-issues/

Follow the instructions and then have a look at the resulting service graph. You'll get an exact breakdown of what's taking all the time to load up.

Great link.

 

[Mirddin]

Yeah, that was a great board. Mine are still alive and well, I just had the upgrade itch and had to scratch. Can absolutely tell a difference in performance from the upgrade! Although I did accidentally format a drive on that mobo when I plugged 2 drives into the EZ-Raid sata ports without realizing! Thank goodness for Recuva. At any rate, here is yet another update.

I took my Vertex 3 drives out of the machine and plugged them into the machine that's running the ASRock Z77 Pro 4M/i5 3570K. The windows load times there were all about 10 seconds from "Starting Windows" to log in screen. Ten seconds is just enough time for the Windows logo to complete and then it disappears. Now that the single SSD (crucial m4 128 GB) in that system has its full compliment of programs it takes about the same time to come up. Compare that to my system where that same process takes about 34-35 seconds. Drives are fine. I would think that putting them in the different system would also suggest that the Windows install is okay. If there was something hanging in the windows load process I would expect it to happen on both machines, but do correct me if I am wrong.

So I'm back to previous theories: BIOS settings (which I am fairly certain are comparable across systems), PSU, or some other hardware (Blu-ray, TV Tuner). I'll take polls and bets on which it is! I guess some might consider this nit picking when back in the day you pressed the power button on the computer and didn't bother coming back for 3 or more (sometimes much more) minutes while it booted, but it's just really bugging me because this shouldn't be happening. Le sigh. I'll likely still set up the boot monitor too, but mainly cause that's a really nice link and I'm a nerd like that.

 

[Zxian]

It's likely a device that's being initialized during boot that's taking a while. Incompatible hardware or out of date drivers could lead to this.

If you don't want to bother with boot tracing, unplug all devices except for the essentials (no optical, no tv tuner, etc). If it boots up quick, then it's one of the removed devices.