Radeon X850XT PE vs GeForce 7600GT

[joaoparaiso]

Hi there, I'm about to buy a video card on eBay today to replace my Geforce 6800 and I have these two options:

Geforce 7600 GT:
Pros:
- It's a new card, not an used one
- It's a more modern card and supports Shader Model 3.0
- It draws less power than the X850 XT

Cons:
- Not as fast as the X850 XT in all benchmarks I've seen
- Comes with stock cooler
- a bit more expensive (at 130$ shipping included)

Radeon X850 XT Platinum Edition:
Pros:
- Cheaper than the 7600GT (might get it for 100$)
- More powerful than the 7600 GT (wons all benchmarks I've seen comparing the two)
- Comes with an aftermarket cooling system with better cooling capabilities and silent operation (silence is very important for my PC)

Cons:
- It's an used card
- Doesn't support Shader Model 3.0
- Draws more power than the 7600GT

What is your advice? I'm leaning towards the X850XT, for its superior power, lower price and better cooling system fitted. But the 7600GT has Shader Model 3.0... does it make any difference in real life? How important is it? Also I've got only a 460W PSU, so the 7600GT would put less stress on my PSU, as it draws less power.

Please help me, I've got only 3 hours to decide! Thanks in advance.

 

[Zstream]

The x850xt if cheaper is probably the best card. Ignore the Sm3 crap, you will not be able to run Sm3 on the 7600gt and get playable frame rates so it is useless.

Trust me I had two evga 7600 gt's and well all I can say is decent but nothing great.

 

[imported_mystery]

I used to have an X800 GTO^2 w/ 16 pipelines @ 533/601, basically X850XT + performance and specs.

It just died a few days ago and I got a 7600GT to try out. Performance was about the same for the games I use, and in the 3DMark benchies.

I didn't try HDR as I upgraded to a BFG 7900GS (wanted a performance improvement).

If you can, get the BFG 7900GS and unlock the pipes to 24pp/8vp (only BFG does this), and overclock it to or past 7900GT levels at least.

If not, it's a toss up between the X850XT PE and 7600GT...Do you want slightly better performance, or do you want a card with a warranty.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: Zstream
The x850xt if cheaper is probably the best card. Ignore the Sm3 crap, you will not be able to run Sm3 on the 7600gt and get playable frame rates so it is useless.

Trust me I had two evga 7600 gt's and well all I can say is decent but nothing great.

That makes no sense what so ever.. So your saying a 7600GT cannot run S.M 3.0 games?

If youve meant S.M 3.0 games with loads of eye candy (intensive/complex shaders used to create all sorts of GFX visuals etc) than i see your point because the 7600GT is only a mid range card i.e doesnt provide enough horse power.

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: Zstream
The x850xt if cheaper is probably the best card. Ignore the Sm3 crap, you will not be able to run Sm3 on the 7600gt and get playable frame rates so it is useless.

Trust me I had two evga 7600 gt's and well all I can say is decent but nothing great.

The 7600GT is a great card, but SM 3.0 is not designed to improve image quality, is to improve performance, effect that might require multi passing on a SM 2.0 card could be done in a single pass with the SM 3.0. After all there's nothing that SM 3.0 can do that SM 2.0 and it's iterations (2.0b, 2.0a) can't. But the 2.0b is closer to the SM 3.0 than any previous model, after all both support the same 512 shader instructions for vector, scalar and texture in hardware, the only difference is that the SM 3.0 uses Dynamic Branching allowing to boost the shader count up to 65,536 or infinite, but we all know that Dynamic Branching is a tricky pony, not used correctly will incur in a performance hit because is hard to predict floating point data, while SM 2.0b uses static branching, that will loop only the maximum allowable in hardware, 512 per component, a total of 1,536. So for me, both cards are great, but if you like HDR with jaggies since FSAA cannot run with HDR, 7600GT, if you don't care about it and want a bit of more performance, X850XT PE.

 

[rogue1979]

Old school wins this one, I would go for the X850XT. It's faster and cheaper.

I wouldn't worry too much about SM 3.0. If you play higher resolutions with FSAA and AF the 7600 GT will fall further behind.

 

[dguy6789]

X850XT hands down. The reasons stated above are more than sufficient.

 

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: rogue1979

I wouldn't worry too much about SM 3.0.

if you want to play Rainbow Six Las Vegas or Splinter Cell Double Agent you need an SM3 card.

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster

Originally posted by: Zstream
The x850xt if cheaper is probably the best card. Ignore the Sm3 crap, you will not be able to run Sm3 on the 7600gt and get playable frame rates so it is useless.

Trust me I had two evga 7600 gt's and well all I can say is decent but nothing great.

That makes no sense what so ever.. So your saying a 7600GT cannot run S.M 3.0 games?

If youve meant S.M 3.0 games with loads of eye candy (intensive/complex shaders used to create all sorts of GFX visuals etc) than i see your point because the 7600GT is only a mid range card i.e doesnt provide enough horse power.

I am sorry but your an idiot! If you take MTW2 and use shader 2.0 and 3.0 the performance drop is large on the 7600GT's and you notice very little in the form of IQ.

I SAID THE 7600GT WITH SM3 ON CURRENT GAMES WILL RUN LIKE CRAP. Try playing games with SM3.0 on a 7600GT and you will find the difference.

This is not brain surgery folks!

To evolucion8

*pulls hair out* I swear you all are tards.

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster

Originally posted by: Zstream
The x850xt if cheaper is probably the best card. Ignore the Sm3 crap, you will not be able to run Sm3 on the 7600gt and get playable frame rates so it is useless.

Trust me I had two evga 7600 gt's and well all I can say is decent but nothing great.

That makes no sense what so ever.. So your saying a 7600GT cannot run S.M 3.0 games?

If youve meant S.M 3.0 games with loads of eye candy (intensive/complex shaders used to create all sorts of GFX visuals etc) than i see your point because the 7600GT is only a mid range card i.e doesnt provide enough horse power.

I am sorry but your an idiot! If you take MTW2 and use shader 2.0 and 3.0 the performance drop is large on the 7600GT's and you notice very little in the form of IQ.

I SAID THE 7600GT WITH SM3 ON CURRENT GAMES WILL RUN LIKE CRAP. Try playing games with SM3.0 on a 7600GT and you will find the difference.

This is not brain surgery folks!

To evolucion8

*pulls hair out* I swear you all are tards.

:Q

 

[Gamingphreek]

After all there's nothing that SM 3.0 can do that SM 2.0 and it's iterations (2.0b, 2.0a) can't.

Uhhhh NO. There is a reason it is 3.0 and the others are 2.0 rev a,b. I'm not going to get into all the differences with you but you are right in that SM 3.0 mainly improved performance and efficiency compared to IQ.

Zstream you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Enabling SM 3 has nothing to do with the reasons the games run like crap. The features you enable when using the SM3 path are what kills performance, no the SM3 path itself. Unless you know what you are talking about stop insulting everyone else!!

-Kevin

 

[A554SS1N]

Originally posted by: Zstream
The x850xt if cheaper is probably the best card. Ignore the Sm3 crap, you will not be able to run Sm3 on the 7600gt and get playable frame rates so it is useless.

Trust me I had two evga 7600 gt's and well all I can say is decent but nothing great.

I think it'd be fine - some people like me have lower thresholds for what is deemed playable, and the 7600GT IMO can handle SM3 easy in games like Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory for example.

 

[AllWhacked]

If you haven't already made up your mind or bought the card, the X850XTPE is my suggestion (I have the same card). However, for $20 more, you can get a X1900GT at NewEgg or an Open Boxed: X1900GT, which is essentially a used X1900GT just like your X850 for $130 for a big jump in performance.

Some people are reporting that the new rev. 2 GTs use the same core as 1950Pros and can overclock to Pro level speeds. And if you don't need to buy now, NewEgg might do another sale on the GTs. They were selling them for as low as $135 last week.

 

[Captante]

OP, you sum up the pros & cons of these cards very well in your first post ... if noise, power consumption & image quality are top priority then get the 7600GT, if raw framerates are the most important thing then go for the used X850XT.

Of course if you can afford the extra $'s for the 7900GS, that is a solid choice as is an X1900GT @ $149.

Sapphire X1900GT @ Newegg

 

[Munky]

SM3, as already has been stated, is best used on a high end video card. Usually, the major negative thing about the x850xt is the loud stock cooler, but if this already has a quiet aftermarket one, then it's the better choice overall.

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

After all there's nothing that SM 3.0 can do that SM 2.0 and it's iterations (2.0b, 2.0a) can't.

Uhhhh NO. There is a reason it is 3.0 and the others are 2.0 rev a,b. I'm not going to get into all the differences with you but you are right in that SM 3.0 mainly improved performance and efficiency compared to IQ.

Zstream you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Enabling SM 3 has nothing to do with the reasons the games run like crap. The features you enable when using the SM3 path are what kills performance, no the SM3 path itself. Unless you know what you are talking about stop insulting everyone else!!

-Kevin

Emmm I know what SM3.0 is and know pretty well what it does and performance difference between 2.0 and 3.0

Like I stated before using a 7600GT with sm 3.0 is pretty poor performance. No game that I can think of use the features of sm2.0 and just export those to 3.0.


Sm 3.0 increases the shader calculations and therefore more shaders are used in games which drops the performance of a mid range card using 3.0 to a low end card in terms of performance.

 

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: Zstream


Like I stated before using a 7600GT with sm 3.0 is pretty poor performance. No game that I can think of use the features of sm2.0 and just export those to 3.0.


Sm 3.0 increases the shader calculations and therefore more shaders are used in games which drops the performance of a mid range card using 3.0 to a low end card in terms of performance.

iirc in Far Cry there is a small performance increase when you go from SM2 to SM3

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

After all there's nothing that SM 3.0 can do that SM 2.0 and it's iterations (2.0b, 2.0a) can't.

Uhhhh NO. There is a reason it is 3.0 and the others are 2.0 rev a,b. I'm not going to get into all the differences with you but you are right in that SM 3.0 mainly improved performance and efficiency compared to IQ.

Zstream you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Enabling SM 3 has nothing to do with the reasons the games run like crap. The features you enable when using the SM3 path are what kills performance, no the SM3 path itself. Unless you know what you are talking about stop insulting everyone else!!

-Kevin

Emmm I know what SM3.0 is and know pretty well what it does and performance difference between 2.0 and 3.0

Like I stated before using a 7600GT with sm 3.0 is pretty poor performance. No game that I can think of use the features of sm2.0 and just export those to 3.0.


Sm 3.0 increases the shader calculations and therefore more shaders are used in games which drops the performance of a mid range card using 3.0 to a low end card in terms of performance.

WRONG

As evolucion8 stated earlier, SM3 DECREASES the amount of calculations needed.

As was stated just afterwards Far Cry demonstrated performance increases when using the SM 3 path.

Just accept that you don't know what you are talking about and stop spreading misinformation.

-Kevin

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: evolucion8

Originally posted by: Zstream
The x850xt if cheaper is probably the best card. Ignore the Sm3 crap, you will not be able to run Sm3 on the 7600gt and get playable frame rates so it is useless.

Trust me I had two evga 7600 gt's and well all I can say is decent but nothing great.

The 7600GT is a great card, but SM 3.0 is not designed to improve image quality, is to improve performance, effect that might require multi passing on a SM 2.0 card could be done in a single pass with the SM 3.0. After all there's nothing that SM 3.0 can do that SM 2.0 and it's iterations (2.0b, 2.0a) can't. But the 2.0b is closer to the SM 3.0 than any previous model, after all both support the same 512 shader instructions for vector, scalar and texture in hardware, the only difference is that the SM 3.0 uses Dynamic Branching allowing to boost the shader count up to 65,536 or infinite, but we all know that Dynamic Branching is a tricky pony, not used correctly will incur in a performance hit because is hard to predict floating point data, while SM 2.0b uses static branching, that will loop only the maximum allowable in hardware, 512 per component, a total of 1,536. So for me, both cards are great, but if you like HDR with jaggies since FSAA cannot run with HDR, 7600GT, if you don't care about it and want a bit of more performance, X850XT PE.

QFT.

I actually agree with you for once!

 

[BassBomb]

i ran sm3 on farcry on my 6600GT YES NOT 7600GT and it runs much better than 2.0

now, in some games adding sm3 means other special effects which of course will lower performance (such as HDR)

 

[A554SS1N]

SM3 was great on Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory with a 6600GT

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

After all there's nothing that SM 3.0 can do that SM 2.0 and it's iterations (2.0b, 2.0a) can't.

Uhhhh NO. There is a reason it is 3.0 and the others are 2.0 rev a,b. I'm not going to get into all the differences with you but you are right in that SM 3.0 mainly improved performance and efficiency compared to IQ.

Zstream you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Enabling SM 3 has nothing to do with the reasons the games run like crap. The features you enable when using the SM3 path are what kills performance, no the SM3 path itself. Unless you know what you are talking about stop insulting everyone else!!

-Kevin

Emmm I know what SM3.0 is and know pretty well what it does and performance difference between 2.0 and 3.0

Like I stated before using a 7600GT with sm 3.0 is pretty poor performance. No game that I can think of use the features of sm2.0 and just export those to 3.0.


Sm 3.0 increases the shader calculations and therefore more shaders are used in games which drops the performance of a mid range card using 3.0 to a low end card in terms of performance.

WRONG

As evolucion8 stated earlier, SM3 DECREASES the amount of calculations needed.

As was stated just afterwards Far Cry demonstrated performance increases when using the SM 3 path.

Just accept that you don't know what you are talking about and stop spreading misinformation.

-Kevin

neither do you ... and lack of facts never stopped you from posting ... i.e. speaking in generalities using an OLD game to support your rather tenuous position.

turning on SM3.0 can go either way - depending on what the Devs intended ... it tends to cripple performance for many mid-level cards for many games.

having BOTH a x850xt and a x1950p in the same system ... there isn't really that much difference in the "visuals" with SM3.0 'on' or 'off'.

 

[Gamingphreek]

I do know what I am talking about as I have demonstrated numerous times.

.e. speaking in generalities using an OLD game to support your rather tenuous position.

I wasn't aware that I was under time constraints here. Last I checked we were discussing games with SM 3 support.

turning on SM3.0 can go either way - depending on what the Devs intended ... it tends to cripple performance for many mid-level cards for many games.

SM 3 can only go one way. It can only increase performance as evolucion8 clearly stated. The features that are automatically turned on or that are allowed to be turned on (Parallax and Displacement Mapping) with SM 3 path enabled are what causes the performance decreases. SM itself does not cause those performance decreases and many times those features can be disabled.

having BOTH a x850xt and a x1950p in the same system ... there isn't really that much difference in the "visuals" with SM3.0 'on' or 'off'.

I agree, seeing as I stated that earlier in the thread. SM 3 decreases the number of calculations required for shaders and increases the maximum number of instructions available. While some IQ featues (As I said before displacement mapping) can be enabled in the SM 3 path, "visuals" were not the focus here.

-Kevin

 

[shabby]

Originally posted by: schneiderguy

Originally posted by: rogue1979

I wouldn't worry too much about SM 3.0.

if you want to play Rainbow Six Las Vegas or Splinter Cell Double Agent you need an SM3 card.

Ding ding ding... we have a wiener.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I do know what I am talking about as I have demonstrated numerous times.

.e. speaking in generalities using an OLD game to support your rather tenuous position.

I wasn't aware that I was under time constraints here. Last I checked we were discussing games with SM 3 support.

you gave ONE example ... try another

Yes ... discussing GAMES ... not "theoretical performance increases" ... turning on SM3.0 can go either way - depending on what the Devs intended ... from MY experience, it tends to cripple or slow performance for many mid-level cards for many new games [i bought 5 or 6 new games since Oblivion].

SM 3 can only go one way. It can only increase performance as evolucion8 clearly stated. The features that are automatically turned on or that are allowed to be turned on (Parallax and Displacement Mapping) with SM 3 path enabled are what causes the performance decreases. SM itself does not cause those performance decreases and many times those features can be disabled.[/quote] We are speaking of "enabling SM3.0" in a GAME ... in some games turning on that "feature" definitely causes FPS drop ... quoting another forum member does not solidify your case

having BOTH a x850xt and a x1950p in the same system ... there isn't really that much difference in the "visuals" with SM3.0 'on' or 'off'.

I agree, seeing as I stated that earlier in the thread. SM 3 decreases the number of calculations required for shaders and increases the maximum number of instructions available. While some IQ featues (As I said before displacement mapping) can be enabled in the SM 3 path, "visuals" were not the focus here.

-Kevin[/quote]my last comment is speaking PURELY of the "visuals" ... "enabling SM 3.0 makes very little difference over the SM 2.0 path ... practically ... in many modern popular titles

EDIT: i don't believe any new games actually require a SM3.0 card to run.

well ... i checked ... evidently there IS a reason for SM 3.0 ... IF you Play SC Double Agent or the direct ports from Xbox360 that use SM3.0 as a minimum
:Q

i am corrected