Radeon with spoofed Vendor ID benchmarked in Batman AA w/ MSAA

[Tempered81]

Japamd (creator of RadeonPro - gaming profile manager for ATI) used his program to spoof the ID of his Ati Radeon HD5970 and bench it in Batman Archam Asylum. Forced FSAA via CCC compared to in-game MSAA provide some interesting results. With AA on the Radeon card gets much higher framerates when the game thinks the Radeon is a Geforce. ;^P Kudos to Nvidia and their crafty software support teams.

The boost is because the game triggers Rocksteady's own (efficient) in-game scene selective anti-aliasing that is normally triggered only when "DevID = Nvidia Corp." Btw, if you haven't checked out RadeonPro, you should - it's a must-have for Ati users. Ever wanted ATI hardware with Nvidia drivers? Here's a screen:

That's what I get with AA 8xQ in Batman AA launcher using RadeonPro and without RadeonPro and AA forced to 8x in CCC

With RadeonPro video spoof

With CCC

Without RadeonPro/No AA

link: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4470187&postcount=126

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Can't seem to do it with the Steam version of Batman. Doing it wrong?

 

[evolucion8]

I did that tweak with ATT and worked like a champ, even though Anti Aliasing quality is slightly worse than the forced CCC, but the performance gains are incredible.

 

[Skurge]

I can't get it to work. I keep getting "MSAA is not supported blah blah" before The intro screen. I'm probably doing it wrong.

 

[Rifter]

did i read that right? they are coding games to specifically run faster on nvidia hardware even though those features work fine on ATI hardware? Nvidia has hit a new low with this one if thats true.

 

[nutxo]

did i read that right? they are coding games to specifically run faster on nvidia hardware even though those features work fine on ATI hardware? Nvidia has hit a new low with this one if thats true.

Not a new low. Nvidia has faked benchmarks before.

 

[Hard Ball]

Not really a surprise here; I'm surprised that it made news at all. Games with TWIMTBP moniker are hardly the paragon of impartial GPU benchmarks between the two vendors.

 

[Soccerman06]

If only AMD had the balls to sue NVIDIA for unfair businesses practices... o wait they did with Intel.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

I can't get it to work. I keep getting "MSAA is not supported blah blah" before The intro screen. I'm probably doing it wrong.

I get the same. You have the steam version?

 

[GaiaHunter]

did i read that right? they are coding games to specifically run faster on nvidia hardware even though those features work fine on ATI hardware? Nvidia has hit a new low with this one if thats true.

Not a new low. Nvidia has faked benchmarks before.

Where have you guys been? Mars?

Batmangate: AMD vs. nVidia vs. Eidos fight analyzed

 

[golem]

Where have you guys been? Mars?

Batmangate: AMD vs. nVidia vs. Eidos fight analyzed

Interesting read.

My general take:

Nvidia is more aggressive/underhanded (bad) but
also provides more support for developers/features (good)

ATI is less underhanded (good) but
provides less support to developers (bad)

 

[3DVagabond]

Interesting read.

My general take:

Nvidia is more aggressive/underhanded (bad) but
also provides more support for developers/features (good)

ATI is less underhanded (good) but
provides less support to developers (bad)

I would agree with you if it wasn't that every time nVidia offers support, there seems to be strings attached. Where if you look at a game that ATI offered support for, and you don't see the same shenanigans. Dirt 2, for instance. Runs just fine on nVidia hardware. I don't call what nVidia offers support. It's not done to benefit anyone but themselves, and often is done at the expense of others.

 

[Rezident]

Very interesting, thanks for this. Must test it.

 

[tviceman]

Interesting read.

My general take:

Nvidia is more aggressive/underhanded (bad) but
also provides more support for developers/features (good)

ATI is less underhanded (good) but
provides less support to developers (bad)

This is exactly what the case is. Nvidia isn't faking any benchmarks here. They coded the AA for the game and felt it was justified to make it exclusive to nvidia cards. They did, however, lie about it saying it wouldn't work on ATI cards. Nvidia may be a bully, but AMD lets them get away with it. When AMD/ATI complains via blogs and interviews it does absolutely nothing to help Radeon card owners. Eidos could have coded AA but that didn't happen. AMD/ATI could have also (or were they legally barred?) from submitting their own AA code, but that didn't happen either. AMD could be sending engineers out to add in special OpenCL bullet physics effects optimized for Radeon cards, but they don't. The fact remains that Nvidia spends resources to go the extra step for their card owners while ATI does not.

 

[shangshang]

I used to hate NV for doing this. But then I realized that in this world, it's money talk. And NV has put their money where their mouth is when it comes to working with developers.

And like in real life, when put my money out, I want that thing to myself, not so that 1000 of my family and friends can share. That's how life works.

 

[Meghan54]

The fact remains that Nvidia spends resources to go the extra step for their card owners while ATI does not.

Then again, no one here knows the restrictions Nvidia places on the development "support" they provide. Cannot imagine Nvidia is just freely handing out help and $$ with no strings attached.

 

[MJinZ]

I used to hate NV for doing this. But then I realized that in this world, it's money talk. And NV has put their money where their mouth is when it comes to working with developers.

And like in real life, when put my money out, I want that thing to myself, not so that 1000 of my family and friends can share. That's how life works.

It's business, obviously. Why the hell would they want to not offer something good for their customers and conversely, something bad for others?

They wouldn't.

 

[Creig]

This is exactly what the case is. Nvidia isn't faking any benchmarks here. They coded the AA for the game and felt it was justified to make it exclusive to nvidia cards. They did, however, lie about it saying it wouldn't work on ATI cards. Nvidia may be a bully, but AMD lets them get away with it. When AMD/ATI complains via blogs and interviews it does absolutely nothing to help Radeon card owners. Eidos could have coded AA but that didn't happen. AMD/ATI could have also (or were they legally barred?) from submitting their own AA code, but that didn't happen either. AMD could be sending engineers out to add in special OpenCL bullet physics effects optimized for Radeon cards, but they don't. The fact remains that Nvidia spends resources to go the extra step for their card owners while ATI does not.

I agree with almost all of your post except for this part:

Nvidia may be a bully, but AMD lets them get away with it.

You're placing blame at AMD's feet because they've been bullied by Nvidia. So the victim is at fault because of the actions of the aggressor? As the AMD vs Intel settlement just proved, it doesn't work that way. Each company is solely responsible for their own actions. And those actions sometimes lead to consequences.

The only way AMD could not "let them get away with it" would be by adopting the same kinds of dirty tricks. And I would much rather see Nvidia acting like AMD than AMD acting like Nvidia.

 

[akugami]

If only AMD had the balls to sue NVIDIA for unfair businesses practices... o wait they did with Intel.

As much as I think nVidia's actions on Batman are detrimental to the gaming community as a whole their actions are not, strictly speaking, illegal or unfair unless they owned what would be considered a monopoly. Intel's issues arose partially because of their dominance in the CPU sector.

 

[golem]

I agree with almost all of your post except for this part:
You're placing blame at AMD's feet because they've been bullied by Nvidia. So the victim is at fault because of the actions of the aggressor? As the AMD vs Intel settlement just proved, it doesn't work that way. Each company is solely responsible for their own actions. And those actions sometimes lead to consequences.

The only way AMD could not "let them get away with it" would be by adopting the same kinds of dirty tricks. And I would much rather see Nvidia acting like AMD than AMD acting like Nvidia.

But the thing is, AMD is always cast in the roll of the victim. I'm sure sometimes they are, but sometimes I just get the impression that they act the role to get sympathy or to cast their competitors in a bad light.

If you read the article, yes Nvidia is sometimes overzealous (you could use terms like dirty if you want), but AMD seems just downright passive. They could have done things like provide cleaned up dx10.1 code for Assassin so that Nvidia cards aren't affected but didn't. They were specifically asked for sample code for Batman AA but just told the developer to take a look at Nvidias.

 

[Kenmitch]

Nvidia is the spoiled rich kid of the industry and has been for along time. The green machine is all about money, hype, and fps! They pretty much do whatever it takes! ATI is more layed back and goes with the flow and to me seems like a much more relaxed company.

Maybe what we need is some sort of GPU cookoff. Maybe a no holds barred cross-licensing agreement between both companies. Give them about 3-6 month time frame to cook up something. Most likely I'd put my money on ATI to be the victor as I'm pretty sure the Green machine ego would get in the way!

 

[Pantalaimon]

Nvidia is the spoiled rich kid of the industry and has been for along time.

And this is why given two cards with similar performance and price, I will always pick the ATI card. NVIDIA's products are great, but I despise their marketing strategy with their strong arm tactics and focus group, and that to me is the tipping point

 

[tviceman]

The only way AMD could not "let them get away with it" would be by adopting the same kinds of dirty tricks. And I would much rather see Nvidia acting like AMD than AMD acting like Nvidia.

AMD is showing that good products sell well even up against more aggressive marketing and, perhaps, they either just want to keep their focus on making great products or lack the resources to market as aggressively as Nvidia. I don't blame AMD for nvidia's tactics; I chastise AMD for their inaction to innovate. AMD was first to the table with DX11 and came out with great, great products but insofar as bringing different ideas, in-game enhancements, and added support beyond what developers are doing within their budget, they lack the initiative that Nvidia has.

Then again, no one here knows the restrictions Nvidia places on the development "support" they provide. Cannot imagine Nvidia is just freely handing out help and $$ with no strings attached.

Agreed but lets not kid ourselves - developers are not forced into any agreements with Nvidia and can willingly choose to not accept their "strings attached" help. In fact, if developers saw Nvidia's TWIMTBP program as a detrimental aspect to their games, TWIMTBP would have been ceased long, long ago.

If AMD has a similarly aggressive marketing and support program, I'd imagine open standards would have been embraced (insofar as GPU-enhanced compute/physics effects and universal AA support not slanted to one vendor or another) and significantly utilized already and these conversations would not exist.

 

[Skurge]

I agree that AMD aren't doing much or very little at the moment, but both AMD and ATI have been in the red the last few years. As soon as they roll out another good product and make some more money I'm sure they would take another look at how poor their Dev relations are and improve them. Maybe even see bullet physic get promoted more.

That is all just wishful thinking though.

 

[Attic]

nVidia's methods as characterized by the intentions behind the batmangate fiasco and the dropped physX support for AMD cards equipped systems have had a negative affect on the company reputation among numerous gamers. Looking at stock price and marketshare over the past 12months for nVidia confirms that if we consider lower stock prices and less marketshare a guage of success, then we can also consider nvidia's methods as characterized by batmangate and physX as successful methods to achieve nVidia's goals as a company.

As gamer I expect nVidia to knock off the shenanigans with dividing the market and attempting to gain marketshare with overzealous (read: underhanded) tactics that undermine the gaming communities best interests and get back to making kickass hardware at affordable prices. The 460 looks good.

I claim that providing what gamers want will drive nVidia's sales higher, and I think that nVidia's role in batmangate and physX show clearly show that nVidia was way out of tune with what gamers want and expect from them.