Radeon HD 6790 based on Barts LE with 800 SPs [nordichardware.com]

[waffleironhead]

With HD6850 ~ $150 and HD5870 ~ $180, this card doesn't make any sense. Its MSRP should be <$120.

I'm sure it will be in short time. Just look how fast the 550ti dropped.

 

[apoppin]

Actually AMD sent us a note to indicate that the HD 6790 was "hard pricing"
- i think it depends on what Nvidia does (now with GTX 550/460). My *guess* is that we will soon see a GTX 560 SE.

Then it will be soft pricing

 

[Attic]

With HD6850 ~ $150 and HD5870 ~ $180, this card doesn't make any sense. Its MSRP should be <$120.

I'd agree. The card looks like a major disappointment given it's name, performance, and price. The 5870 stands out as an amazing card for 180, I look at that as an anomoly and nothing to gauge AMD's real pricing strategy with.

I questioned AMD with the 5770 and the failure of performance from this midrange offering, but the 5770 no longer appears like a mistake as much as a goal.

 

[RussianSensation]

I'm sure it will be in short time. Just look how fast the 550ti dropped.

It's just unbelievable how poor the videocard market is at < $130 in the year 2011. Even the GTX460 768mb is barely faster than a GTX260 216 or HD4890. Those cards are almost 2 years old and were no more than $170-190 ~1.5-2 years ago. What this means is that in almost 2 years, there has been almost no performance improvement for these users. Talking about stagnation.

Even without considering Fusion, the performance per dollar on the low end is so poor, I don't ever recall a time like this in the graphics card business. For $180 you can get an HD5870 which is a whopping 52&#37; faster than the 6790 and 69% faster than a 550 Ti. It's as if AMD and NV are committed to making < $130 videocard market of videocards obsolete. The only saving grace for these videocards is that in the last 1.5+ years most games didn't elevate the graphics level. But if this is the new direction for AMD and NV, it is almost pointless to have low-end videocards. Honestly, they should just divert their efforts towards low- to mid-range mobile offerings and focus on mid-range and high-end for desktop discrete. The desktop discrete low end market is becoming a laughing joke.

 

[Phynaz]

lol, you n00b. The answer is 0.

You're calling him a noob?

Everybody knows the answer is 42.

 

[nanaki333]

I'd agree. The card looks like a major disappointment given it's name, performance, and price. The 5870 stands out as an amazing card for 180, I look at that as an anomoly and nothing to gauge AMD's real pricing strategy with.

I questioned AMD with the 5770 and the failure of performance from this midrange offering, but the 5770 no longer appears like a mistake as much as a goal.

you have to keep in mind that the 5870 is considered old tech and will stop being made before most of the 6 series cards.

 

[railven]

Can any answer if Cypress and its derivatives are EoL?

Maybe I'm looking at this from the wrong angle, but they introduce new cards in the price segment of previous cards (their successors if you will) with power reductions, improved features (in some cases) and generally better overall performance than their predecessors and something is wrong with that?

Of course the previous models would look better in current trends with their decreased price, but do we scoff off a 2012 Model X because a 2011 Model X is cheaper?

From my experience as a builder the people in these price ranges have some strict restrictions mostly heat, power, and size. Trying to sell someone a 5870 in terms of "ZOMG you'll get 60% more gaming performance" is hard when they have a 250W PSU. And then suddenly "well you'll need a new PSU, and possibly a new processor since you'll be bottlenecked, and.. well..."

But that's just my angle.

 

[busydude]

Can any answer if Cypress and its derivatives are EoL?

Cypress is EOL, but Juniper is not.

 

[railven]

Cypress is EOL, but Juniper is not.

Since I don't want to turn this into a Green Vs Red, if a customer asked me for a card under $150 that has low noise, temp, and decent for medium gaming on a 1680x1050 I'd suggest the 6790 or the 5770. In Anand's the 6790 won most of the tests.

It will boil down:
Do you want to buy last gen and save, or this gen at going price?

Hasn't it always been like this?

 

[Skurge]

Since I don't want to turn this into a Green Vs Red, if a customer asked me for a card under $150 that has low noise, temp, and decent for medium gaming on a 1680x1050 I'd suggest the 6790 or the 5770. In Anand's the 6790 won most of the tests.

It will boil down:
Do you want to buy last gen and save, or this gen at going price?

Hasn't it always been like this?

Not really, usually current gen cards make last gen cards obsolete. Nvidia 6 series made the FX useless at every price point.

The radeon 4000 series made all the 3000 series cards useless. Not so for this gen of cards I guess.

 

[railven]

Not really, usually current gen cards make last gen cards obsolete. Nvidia 6 series made the FX useless at every price point.

The radeon 4000 series made all the 3000 series cards useless. Not so for this gen of cards I guess.

With die shrinks I'd agree about performance gains, but how many people hung on to a 8800 series (or derivative, including the 9800 too) way pass their prime?

I remember people posting not wanting to ditch their 4890s for the new 5 series around here. I read similar things of not wanting to ditch the 275s for a 460 or 470.

No card makes another card obsolete. That is the beauty of PC scaling. People who buy mid upgrade more often, just this time around the people who bought a mid 5 series performance hasn't moved so they aren't upgrading, but people buying new coming from say a 4770 might find it suitable.

Remember - to some consumers owning the 2012 model has more prestige than owning the on sale 2011 model.

 

[RussianSensation]

Remember - to some consumers owning the 2012 model has more prestige than owning the on sale 2011 model.

Unless you are talking about 69xx series, 68xx series is almost identical to 58xx series. Outside of UVD3, HDMI 1.4A support, slightly revised but still sub-par tessellation engine, and improved texture filtering, the 6850/6870 is actually inferior to the 5870 in performance. No matter how you slice it, 68xx is not a new generation since its architecture is 99&#37; based on Cypress. Also, while 69xx is a revised VLIW-5 achitecture, it is also more or less very similar in design/performance to Cypress (i.e., 5870). The biggest innovation there is the addition of 2 tessellation engines. 6970 and should have been called 5890. There isn't enough in there to call it a full next generation. It's a half-generation similar to HD2900--> HD3870 imo. 5870 even supports MLAA.

GTX5xx series is even more of a marketing gimmick. GTX570 is maybe 5% faster than a GTX480. Essentially most of the performance increase came from increased clock speeds and some revised FP16 texture performance. By all accounts, GTX470/480/570/580 are all the same generation, regardless of what BS marketing wants to throw this way. Even X1900XT series was a larger jump from X1800XT than what NV and AMD cooked up this round. To call current cards next generation is an insult to every preceding "true" next generation release such as 8500 --> 9800Pro --> X800XT --> X1800XT or GF3 --> GF4 --> GF5 --> GF6 or GF7 --> GF8 --> GT200 --> GF100. You can even tell that GTX570 and 580 are from the same generation as the GTX470/480 cards since they are all part of the GF1xx family. Kepler will be GF2xx or whatever the code name is (meaning 2nd generation of Fermi).

I don't see how people are calling HD5870 "old" tech. This isn't like having a car with an old engine that consumes a lot of fuel. HD5870 still kicks major butt regardless of its architecture. Hypothetically speaking, even if HD5870 was made up of 10 meatballs with swiss cheese slices, given that it's fast as a stock HD6950 1GB, and mops the floor with 6790 or GTX550 Ti for breakfast, who cares what "tech" it is?

 

[Silverforce11]

Have to take into account, in a lot of places around the world without access to newegg and such (they dont ship internationally lame), its quite hard to find 5850/70s. You have to resort to used cards on ebay etc.

If you can grab them, 5800 series for cheap is STILL the best bang for your buck.

 

[Arkadrel]

is it just me or are there almost to many cards in this low range?



>5870> 560> 470/6870> 5850> 460 1gb> 465> 6850> 460 768mb> 6790> 460 SE> 550ti/5770


from 230$ <-> 100$

 

[Lonyo]

is it just me or are there almost to many cards in this low range?



>5870> 560> 470/6870> 5850> 460 1gb> 465> 6850> 460 768mb> 6790> 460 SE> 550ti/5770


from 230$ <-> 100$

You missed the 6950 1GB.

But the way it should/might shake out will be:
6950 > GTX560Ti > 6870 > GTX560(?) > 6850 > 6790 > 550 > 5770

Once all the old models start to dry up in terms of availability.

 

[nemesismk2]

OEM only so far

I've seen it available in small numbers in retail in the UK and available for £120 so for a tiny amount more you can get a 6850 for £130 which is better value IMO

 

[nemesismk2]

Silly rabbit, when we get to 9000 we'll be treated with the honoring of history: The NEW 9700 PRO!!!! Same name, different game!

I had two 9700 Pro's, one was from Sapphire and the other from Powercolor. Both gave excellent performance!

 

[railven]

Unless you are talking about 69xx series, 68xx series is almost identical to 58xx series. Outside of UVD3, HDMI 1.4A support, slightly revised but still sub-par tessellation engine, and improved texture filtering, the 6850/6870 is actually inferior to the 5870 in performance. No matter how you slice it, 68xx is not a new generation since its architecture is 99% based on Cypress. Also, while 69xx is a revised VLIW-5 achitecture, it is also more or less very similar in design/performance to Cypress (i.e., 5870). The biggest innovation there is the addition of 2 tessellation engines. 6970 and should have been called 5890. There isn't enough in there to call it a full next generation. It's a half-generation similar to HD2900--> HD3870 imo. 5870 even supports MLAA.

GTX5xx series is even more of a marketing gimmick. GTX570 is maybe 5% faster than a GTX480. Essentially most of the performance increase came from increased clock speeds and some revised FP16 texture performance. By all accounts, GTX470/480/570/580 are all the same generation, regardless of what BS marketing wants to throw this way. Even X1900XT series was a larger jump from X1800XT than what NV and AMD cooked up this round. To call current cards next generation is an insult to every preceding "true" next generation release such as 8500 --> 9800Pro --> X800XT --> X1800XT or GF3 --> GF4 --> GF5 --> GF6 or GF7 --> GF8 --> GT200 --> GF100. You can even tell that GTX570 and 580 are from the same generation as the GTX470/480 cards since they are all part of the GF1xx family. Kepler will be GF2xx or whatever the code name is (meaning 2nd generation of Fermi).

I don't see how people are calling HD5870 "old" tech. This isn't like having a car with an old engine that consumes a lot of fuel. HD5870 still kicks major butt regardless of its architecture. Hypothetically speaking, even if HD5870 was made up of 10 meatballs with swiss cheese slices, given that it's fast as a stock HD6950 1GB, and mops the floor with 6790 or GTX550 Ti for breakfast, who cares what "tech" it is?

With the bolded you essentially proved my point, thanks. All this other comparative is irrelevant when a consumer is in the market for a sub $150 card that draws less than ~150W.

I drew lines in the sand for my argument, you just walked over them and wasted my time reading an irrelevant post. Haha. Try to stick to my arguments next time please

 

[RussianSensation]

I drew lines in the sand for my argument, you just walked over them and wasted my time reading an irrelevant post. Haha. Try to stick to my arguments next time please

You said it boils down to: "Do you want to buy last generation and save, or current generation". This is implying that current generation is superior when in fact it isn't. Hence the point I made.

Also, the load power consumption difference between a 6790 and a 5870 is only ~50W. Given that 5870 is > 50&#37; faster, it's fair to say most ppl will accept that tradeoff considering gaming is a hobby. Besides, there is a 6850 which consumes less power than the 6790, is 25% faster and costs only $15 more. My point is 6790 is $30-40 overpriced, esp. in light of a similarly priced 460s such as the $125 GTX 460 1GB.

 

[Skurge]

Unless you are talking about 69xx series, 68xx series is almost identical to 58xx series. Outside of UVD3, HDMI 1.4A support, slightly revised but still sub-par tessellation engine, and improved texture filtering, the 6850/6870 is actually inferior to the 5870 in performance. No matter how you slice it, 68xx is not a new generation since its architecture is 99% based on Cypress. Also, while 69xx is a revised VLIW-5 achitecture, it is also more or less very similar in design/performance to Cypress (i.e., 5870). The biggest innovation there is the addition of 2 tessellation engines. 6970 and should have been called 5890. There isn't enough in there to call it a full next generation. It's a half-generation similar to HD2900--> HD3870 imo. 5870 even supports MLAA.

GTX5xx series is even more of a marketing gimmick. GTX570 is maybe 5% faster than a GTX480. Essentially most of the performance increase came from increased clock speeds and some revised FP16 texture performance. By all accounts, GTX470/480/570/580 are all the same generation, regardless of what BS marketing wants to throw this way. Even X1900XT series was a larger jump from X1800XT than what NV and AMD cooked up this round. To call current cards next generation is an insult to every preceding "true" next generation release such as 8500 --> 9800Pro --> X800XT --> X1800XT or GF3 --> GF4 --> GF5 --> GF6 or GF7 --> GF8 --> GT200 --> GF100. You can even tell that GTX570 and 580 are from the same generation as the GTX470/480 cards since they are all part of the GF1xx family. Kepler will be GF2xx or whatever the code name is (meaning 2nd generation of Fermi).

I don't see how people are calling HD5870 "old" tech. This isn't like having a car with an old engine that consumes a lot of fuel. HD5870 still kicks major butt regardless of its architecture. Hypothetically speaking, even if HD5870 was made up of 10 meatballs with swiss cheese slices, given that it's fast as a stock HD6950 1GB, and mops the floor with 6790 or GTX550 Ti for breakfast, who cares what "tech" it is?

You might be right about the performance. Cayman is very different from Cypress. The fundamental architecture might be the same but there are many things that are different between the 2. If you look at some of your examples. Like 9800pro to X800XT. Most of the performance benefits came from doubling up on alot of things and higher clocks those 2 chips had a lot more in common than Cayman and Cypress, thanks to the smaller process. So You can say that performance wise the 6900 series is similar to the 5800, but you can't say that from an architecture standpoint.

As for Barts, I agree with you. Its basically a more efficient Cypress. Although a little slower. I'm sure if it had the same number of shaders it would be faster. But that is just speculation.

 

[railven]

You said it boils down to: "Do you want to buy last generation and save, or current generation". This is implying that current generation is superior when in fact it isn't. Hence the point I made.

Also, the load power consumption difference between a 6790 and a 5870 is only ~50W. Given that 5870 is > 50% faster, it's fair to say most ppl will accept that tradeoff considering gaming is a hobby. Besides, there is a 6850 which consumes less power than the 6790, is 25% faster and costs only $15 more. My point is 6790 is $30-40 overpriced, esp. in light of a similarly priced 460s such as the $125 GTX 460 1GB.

And you ignored all the criteria I set. So, again, irrelevant to what I was asking. There was a string of posts I made that lead up to what you responded to. If you're just going to pick one point, you're not addressing my angle.

Not everyone is surfing the internet for the best deals, and their only option is the Microcenter and/or the Best Buy. Would you stick a 5870 on a 250W PSU? I wouldn't. Would they want the noise? Or the heat output? Would their case fit it? I know I had to mod my case to fit my 5870 in it.

But, sure, just suggest something else. They'll accept the trade-offs.