Radeon 9700 owners, why do you put up with it?

[Ketchup]

I am a little amazed at what ATI has pulled off with the ATI Radeon 9700. It seems to be incompatible with most of the nForce 2 boards, it wasn't compatible with the SIS 648 boards when first released, and there are always weird compatibility issues that never cease to blow my mind! For instance, there is a thread in here about a guy with an Epox 8K3A, 400 watt Antec P.S., and a 9700, and the thing posts a garbled mess. People are telling him it's the power suppply. Yeah... right.

And yet, people will swear by this card, and I can't understand why. What is the point of having the fastest card if it won't even run on your system? Or if it won't even post because your AGP bus is a couple MHZ out of spec? I got my old 8k3a to 210MHz FSB with my Geforce 4, how many 9700 owners can tell me that?

And lastly, why do you put up with those ATI drivers? I had an ATI Radeon 8500LE, and had it for about about 4 months early last year. It performed well, but I get terrible video quality with this card until I got the latest drivers about a week before I sold it. By then it was on eBay, and I already was sick of it. I couldn't even read the menus in games without Anti-Aliasing on? I really would have hated the card if I bought it when it first came out, as the drivers were REALLY bad then.

I am not looking to start wars here, so if I have really pissed you off, please do not reply. I am looking for those of you who are seeing past the faults of ATI, and those of you who agree with me on this point.

 

[KidChaos]

AMD XP 1700+
ATi 9000 NP (Catalyst 3.0 drivers)

No problems here. Plays all my games great: Neverwinter nights, madden 2003, Warcraft III, Age of Mythology, Unreal Tournament 2003, etc. Had some stuttering problems in NWN in the past, but ever since Catalyst 3.0 everything is fine.

 

[Ketchup]

Good for you. Are you able to overclock via FSB?

One other thing I forgot to mention is one of the biggest reasons I live these nVidia cards: Digital Vibrance Control. It makes all the colors look so much richer, I don't think I would be happy with a card that didn't have it. I wonder why ATI hasn't come out with something like this?

 

[daywalker]

Actually the trouble with Nforce2 incompatibility, is the Nforce2 itself. From BIOS problems, to drivers problems and so on. I know MANY and i mean MANY people who have trouble with their Nforce2 motherboars. So dont blame ATI on that one. Nforce & Nforce2 are probably the most unstable chipsets ever released. Makes me want to stay with VIA all the way...lol.

As for the SIS chipset, its the first time i 've heard anything like it. But i will look into it.

BTW about the guy with the Epox mobo and the power supply, YES there is a BIG chance that IT is the source of the problem. When these kinds of problems occur, you just have to try everything until you find a solution.

 

[KidChaos]

Are you able to overclock via FSB?

Yeah, i run it at 1900+ speed every now and then by bumpin the FSB up a little. Why? ATi cards can't handle high FSBs?

 

[Ketchup]

Can somebody else back up these claims about nForce 2 bios and driver problems. I visit these forums quite often, especially the motherboard forum, and this is the first I have heard of it.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: daywalker
Actually the trouble with Nforce2 incompatibility, is the Nforce2 itself. From BIOS problems, to drivers problems and so on. I know MANY and i mean MANY people who have trouble with their Nforce2 motherboars. So dont blame ATI on that one. Nforce & Nforce2 are probably the most unstable chipsets ever released. Makes me want to stay with VIA all the way...lol.

As for the SIS chipset, its the first time i 've heard anything like it. But i will look into it.

BTW about the guy with the Epox mobo and the power supply, YES there is a BIG chance that IT is the source of the problem. When these kinds of problems occur, you just have to try everything until you find a solution.

nforce2 unstable??? yeah right! kt400, now thats unstable

 

[Killrose]

What are you talking about? My 9700 Pro runs perfect on my Epox 8RDA nForce board!! I never have any lock-ups, blue screens freezes nothing!!

9x185MHz with an XP 1600+ and my AGP bus set @70MHz

 

[Goi]

My Radeon 9700 Pro works fine on my Gigabyte GA-8PE667 motherboard(i845PE chipset) with 2x512MB PC3200 DDR-SDRAM. The FSB is currently at 169MHz. I haven't read a lot of other problems either, most of the people I know with Radeon 9700 Pros haven't been complaining.

 

[Ketchup]

It's good to know that some of you aren't having any problems. Also keep in mind that the Intel 845E/G/PE/GE and the nForce has a PCI/AGP lock feature on it. I have been reading that people were having problems running very high AGP speeds with this card.

 

[TimeKeeper]

I was once a die-hard nvidia fan.... then I realized ATI has much much better image quality.
Just turn on the ClearType in WinXP w/ your LCD monitor, then you will know what I am talking about. (of course, that is if you can compare them side by side w/ same LCD monitor)

 

[jiffylube1024]

I ran an ATI Radeon 8500 LE 128MB on an Epox 8K5A2+ for awhile, and on an ASUS P4B266 for awhile - ZERO problems with either. Also, I have had several original Radeon DDR's that worked great. The original drivers in the first year of the Radeon's release weren't that great, but ever since the Catalysts came out, I haven't had any problems. IMHO Cats 2.5 were some of the most stable drivers I ever used, better than many of the buggy "leaked" nVidia drivers.

Personally, I like ATI's drivers a bit better than nVidia's right now. I'm running a GF4 Ti4200 right now btw, so I don't think I'm too biased.

I'm pretty annoyed with this "Radeon XXXX" owners, why do you put up with buggy drivers crap, though. I don't mean any offense, but you will see that the vast majority of Radeon users here can get their systems to work with Radeons pretty easily. Within the last year, ATI's driver team has really pulled close to nVidia in terms of stability, quality, etc.

 

[rbV5]

High FSB and AIW 9700 pro here. Its pretty much plug and play here. Install new game...set stuff to high,...play game at high framerates. Click on TV....watch/record.

Looks like flamebait post me. Why do you even care?

 

[WarSong]

Originally posted by: rbV5
Looks like flamebait post me. Why do you even care?

That's what I was thinking...

mark me down as another long term (last three generations) ATI user with zero problems.

 

[gururu]

my 9700 complaints: had to lower my fsb a bit
otherwise the card has been a dream. Maybe because I'm running an Intel cpu/chipset, maybe not.
the thing about this topic is that everybody has a different experience. with certain products, I have had
bad experiences and it pisses me off.
I can understand ketchup. I've had problems with 3dfx, Creative labs, Abit, western digital, yamaha, and many others.
oh the time spent troubleshooting. AHHHHH!
and its all about drivers. in some cases, I understand even Nvidia products can be problematic. surprise surprise.
the only people to blame are microsoft. why won't their damn operating systems read the drivers correctly!!!!

 

[lung]

The only problems I had with my 9700 Pro were right in the beginning when they first came out. With subsequent driver releases, no more problems. I bought a good motherboard (Epox 4BDA) so I lock my PCI and AGP so no worries there either.

 

[pillage2001]

Originally posted by: ketchup79
It's good to know that some of you aren't having any problems. Also keep in mind that the Intel 845E/G/PE/GE and the nForce has a PCI/AGP lock feature on it. I have been reading that people were having problems running very high AGP speeds with this card.

So you're blaming the Video card when you're running it out of spec???

So many people in this board have been happy with their Radeon and not many complain about the card itself. Makes you wonder where the problem lies eh?

 

[tenoc]

I am not looking to start wars here, so if I have really pissed you off, please do not reply. I am looking for those of you who are seeing past the faults of ATI, and those of you who agree with me on this point.

Translation: "Don't talk to me unless you agree with me!"

 

[hdeck]

i couldn't run my 9500 with my processor's fsb overclocked.

 

[Cuular]

Running the A7N8X Deluxe with FSB at 185 and 9700 Pro, and running solid as they come.

I'm not sure where the originator of this thread got his ideas of everyone having problems with Nforce2 and 9700's and overclocking causing problems. But like a poster above mentioned. When you run your whole system out of spec, you can't blame the problem on the graphics card.

If it runs flawlessly at spec speeds, then you got what you paid for. Anything beyond that is a bonus, and purely a bonus.

People that expect to be able to overclock need to grab a reality check.

 

[chizow]

The original poster didn't say anything about the Nforce2 + 9700pro, someone else did. You should be able to push your FSB all you want b/c the Nforce2 boards feature both AGP and PCI locking; running the AGP bus out of spec is a non-issue.

As for other boards that still use dividers, this is an issue I've read about before. Unless you know when your dividers kick in (what FSB levels), there does appear to be issues that will limit OCing flexibility.

Why the 9500/9700pro have low fault tolerances in regards to the AGP bus, thats anyone's guess. Perhaps its a result of the bus being optimized to run at spec; we all know the 9500/9700pro's performance is highly dependent on bandwidth, so messing with the optimized settings may result in instability. The GF3/GF4 series cards are the exact opposite, they are bandwidth limited and instead depend on faster clock/memory speeds to generate their performance (just compare how the two families scale with faster CPU clocks).

I put up with the 9700pro b/c its a splendid piece of hardware with awesome features, and allows me to run with AF and AA at my LCDs native resolution (1280x1024). The drivers though, still a continuing struggle :disgust:

Chiz

 

[nRollo]

"It seems to be incompatible with most of the nForce 2 boards, it wasn't compatible with the SIS 648 boards when first released,"
A. nForce2 is very new tech, bound to have some issues B. Who cares about SiS "Oh no! My $400 VGA won't work on my $75 POS (Piece of SiS) mainboard!"

"People are telling him it's the power suppply. Yeah... right."
Ever think he might not be a crack systems assembler?

"people will swear by this card, and I can't understand why."
Here is why:
1. It's worked flawlessly for me on a Epox KT266A board, and and Asus PE board.
2. It's a lot faster than anything nVidia based, and has better IQ. (and don't go telling me about unreleased Dustbusters that are a little faster at some things, I value peace and quiet)

"lastly, why do you put up with those ATI drivers? I had an ATI Radeon 8500LE, "
Can't compare 8500 problems to 9700, it's a different chipset.

"I am not looking to start wars here, so if I have really pissed you off, please do not reply."
LOL- more like you're wanting others to validate your decision to live with a much slower card while the rest of us are in the fast lane enjoying some high res FSAA/aniso.

" Good for you. Are you able to overclock via FSB?"
Who cares? When you have a fast computer, there's no need to.

 

[blcjr]

I am not looking to start wars here, so if I have really pissed you off, please do not reply. I am looking for those of you who are seeing past the faults of ATI, and those of you who agree with me on this point.

In other words, there is no room for a reply from anyone who don't see the faults of ATI?

I'm happy as a clown with my 9500 np successfully softmodded to near 9700 PRO specs. What's not to like about that? Combined with an nForce2 mobo, an Athlon XP 2100+ o/c'd to 2600+ (190 FSB x 11), I'm getting over 16000 3DMark2001SE scores.

In the past I've been a 3dfx fan. Then I was an nVidia fan. Now I'm an ATI fan. ATI has come along way since the Rage chips .

 

[Jolyon33]

I've only had one problem with my ATI 9500Pro since I got it. It won't run with the new AGP via driver. As soon as I run it with the XP drivers all my problems cleared up. Now whether this is an ATI problem or a VIA problem is anybodies guess. I've spent some time over at the Rage3d forum and there are people who are having problems with their cards, but I don't think it is quite as rampant as some would believe. Does ATI have room for improvement? Of course they do! Does Nvidia have room for improvement! Hell yes! I think my opinion is relatively non-biased because I have had Nvidia cards since the Geforce 2 days.

 

[idNut]

Originally posted by: ketchup79
I am a little amazed at what ATI has pulled off with the ATI Radeon 9700. It seems to be incompatible with most of the nForce 2 boards, it wasn't compatible with the SIS 648 boards when first released, and there are always weird compatibility issues that never cease to blow my mind! For instance, there is a thread in here about a guy with an Epox 8K3A, 400 watt Antec P.S., and a 9700, and the thing posts a garbled mess. People are telling him it's the power suppply. Yeah... right.

And yet, people will swear by this card, and I can't understand why. What is the point of having the fastest card if it won't even run on your system? Or if it won't even post because your AGP bus is a couple MHZ out of spec? I got my old 8k3a to 210MHz FSB with my Geforce 4, how many 9700 owners can tell me that?

And lastly, why do you put up with those ATI drivers? I had an ATI Radeon 8500LE, and had it for about about 4 months early last year. It performed well, but I get terrible video quality with this card until I got the latest drivers about a week before I sold it. By then it was on eBay, and I already was sick of it. I couldn't even read the menus in games without Anti-Aliasing on? I really would have hated the card if I bought it when it first came out, as the drivers were REALLY bad then.

I am not looking to start wars here, so if I have really pissed you off, please do not reply. I am looking for those of you who are seeing past the faults of ATI, and those of you who agree with me on this point.

I put up with it because I spent $400 on this card thinking I'd never have to buy a new card. I'm a casualty of the SiS 648 chipset and I will be buying a new motherboard because of it. Notice the name of my computer is AnTI Radeon 9700.