**Radeon 9600 Pro Reviews** (Post Your Reviews Here)

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,776
31
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Eh, I have mixed feelings about this card. I'm surprised it can hang with the 9500 PRO in as many benches as it did, but I was still hoping for more. The FX 5600 Ultra vs. 9600 PRO is almost a moot point too. I guess it will come down to pricing, which is good for the consumer. How long until NV36?
 

PrinceXizor

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2002
2,188
99
91
Well, the pundits were right.

The 9500 Pro looks like the card to have IF you can get it. (Local BB has it for $199.99).

But, if the 9600 Pro DOES debut at $199.99...users who get that shouldn't feel jobbed. I think its worth that...its just its bad luck the 9500 Pro is such a kick-butt card.

P-X
 

EdipisReks

Platinum Member
Sep 30, 2000
2,722
0
0
its not a bad card. it will certainly make a good upgrade for people with Geforce3's, though i would suggest they try to get a 9500 Pro.
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,776
31
81
My local BB has five 9500 PROs in stock as of Monday. $199 is still just too steep for me being jobless. If I were employed, I'd probably get a 9700/9800 PRO.
 

prontospyder

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,262
0
0
Looks like the 9600 Pro will be my next card....when the price falls below $150. :)

I want my system to remain quiet have better 2D/3D quality than my geForce2 MX. I don't really do a lot of gaming anymore.
 

BentValve

Diamond Member
Dec 26, 2001
4,190
0
0
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
My local BB has five 9500 PROs in stock as of Monday. $199 is still just too steep for me being jobless. If I were employed, I'd probably get a 9700/9800 PRO.



The 9500 is $220 with $20 rebate and the 9700 Pro is $299 with no rebate. Best Buy seems to have finally gotten a nice stock of
both of these cards...If I could only spend $200 then I would still try and swing another $100 for a 9700 Pro.
 

PrinceXizor

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2002
2,188
99
91
We are all interested in 9500 Pro vs. 9600 Pro....but the fact of the matter is that ATI is pleased as punch. Their mid-level card (9600 Pro) kicks the butt of the Nvidia's mid-level card (5600 Ultra). Their top of the line card (9800 Pro) is better than Nvidia's top of the line (5800 Ultra). The only thing Nvidia has left is the GeForce FX 5200 Ultra vs. ATI Radeon 9200 Pro when we will see if ATI can make a clean sweep of it.

P-X
 

PrinceXizor

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2002
2,188
99
91
Originally posted by: BentValve
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
My local BB has five 9500 PROs in stock as of Monday. $199 is still just too steep for me being jobless. If I were employed, I'd probably get a 9700/9800 PRO.



The 9500 is $220 with $20 rebate and the 9700 Pro is $299 with no rebate. Best Buy seems to have finally gotten a nice stock of
both of these cards...If I could only spend $200 then I would still try and swing another $100 for a 9700 Pro.

I asume you were just quoting your own prices. My BB has Radeon 9500 Pro for $199 with no rebate.

P-X
 

JZilla

Senior member
Feb 11, 2003
630
0
0
I don't get why ATI launch a 9600Pro that's slower than the 9500Pro ? Will future drivers give the 9600Pro a big boost in performance ?

That would be like Ferrari presenting a new car, that's slower than their current model.
 

chizow

Diamond Member
Jun 26, 2001
9,537
2
0
Originally posted by: JZilla
I don't get why ATI launch a 9600Pro that's slower than the 9500Pro ? Will future drivers give the 9600Pro a big boost in performance ?

That would be like Ferrari presenting a new car, that's slower than their current model.

Comes down to dollars and cents. The 9500pro and non-pro are using full-blown R300 cores. That's 110 million transistors on a .15 micron process, which is both difficult and expensive to manufacture. The .13 micron 9600pro has almost 1/2 the transistors (60 million) on a smaller process, which will lead to cost savings. Considering ATi is trimming their margins on every 9500/pro sold due to the pricing of these parts, offering a cheaper solution in the high-volume, high-margin mid-market segment is a priority for all IHVs. If you look at ATi's Q1 03 financials, they suffered $2 million in operating losses despite their increase in revenue. Why? Because of a write-down of inventory on excess R200 cores and a hit to R300 cores on much cheaper 9500/pros.

Chiz
 

rbV5

Lifer
Dec 10, 2000
12,632
0
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The 9600 looks like it might be a nice HTPC card...Cool/fanless, low power consumption, pretty fair performance. I wonder how the 9600pro will overclock?
 

JZilla

Senior member
Feb 11, 2003
630
0
0
Well thank you for that answer chizow, very well explained. But it still seems wrong to me, it's like the 9500Pro is faster than they meant it to be.

Oh well, guess I just have to put on my super sneakers and run to the nearest store when easter is over, so I can grab my 9500Pro before the rest of the heard.
 

chizow

Diamond Member
Jun 26, 2001
9,537
2
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Originally posted by: JZilla
Well thank you for that answer chizow, very well explained. But it still seems wrong to me, it's like the 9500Pro is faster than they meant it to be.

Oh well, guess I just have to put on my super sneakers and run to the nearest store when easter is over, so I can grab my 9500Pro before the rest of the heard.
NP, actually, the 9500pro is slower than it potentially could be. Using your original analogy, its like owning a Ferrarri but restricting it to the Capitol Beltway during rush hour. Its got the horse power to really burn some tread, but its going to be no faster than the Saturn next to it because traffic is the bottleneck. The only time you'd benefit from the horse power is accelerating and weaving from lane to lane if you happened to have a little space in front of you to maneuver. The same holds true for the 9500pro and 9600pro, where the 128-bit memory interface is the bottleneck for the 9500pro. The penalty of having 1/2 the rendering pipeline (or horse power as you will) is less significant because the bottleneck isn't as severe as with the 9500pro.

The 9500pro was a stop-gap part to help ATi compete in the mid-performance market. They didn't have the time (or resources probably) to redesign the core so they made change external to the core to manage performance (128-bit bus). The RV350 on the other hand was designed from the ground up to be a cheaper solution in the mid-range market. Instead of making changes external to the core, they cut the rendering pipe in half (4 x 1 instead of 8 x 1, which makes up the majority of the ~50 million transistor difference) and shrinking the die, which leads to considerably cheaper fab costs as you not only get similar performance for 1/2 the transistor count, but you also get more chips per wafer. As yields per wafer improve, the cost savings improve as well.

Oh and yah, I'd get a 9500pro ASAP if you were thinking about it but were waiting on the 9600pro results. :)

Chiz
 

KDOG

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,561
14
81
WHEW!! Glad I got my retail 9500PRO while I could!!!:D Only one problem, the retail ones are "BIOS locked" and I'm not paying 29.95 for Winrar just to open the darn Warp11 hacked BIOS for it... I guess I'll have to settle for stock(sigh).
 

mchammer187

Diamond Member
Nov 26, 2000
9,116
0
76
whatever you do

do not pay 199 for this card unless you are forced to buy it from a local retailer

i think 140 is the max its worth especially when radeon 9700 non pros are going for around $206 on pricewatch
 

PrinceXizor

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2002
2,188
99
91
9500 Pro for $177 shipped at Newegg.

So of course you can get it cheaper than at BB. The point is getting them at all since stocks are dwindling. If you want it, you can get it at BB, at least for now.

Edit: A word of caution, many sites on Pricewatch and the like are mislabelling 9500's with 128MB as 9500 Pro's. And some outright are not the same. For example, Knowledge Micro keeps popping up with a $135 9500 Pro, but when you actually see the specs, its a 9500 with 64MB!! So be wary.

P-X
 

prontospyder

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,262
0
0
Looks like Dave over at Beyond3D got it to 560 Mhz.

Guess there was nothing wrong with TSMC's 0.13 process?
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
I'm kind of underwhelmed just because I would assume "Wow 9600 Pro Review! Just a step below the behemoth that is king!"

...and it barely hangs in with its younger brother.

Ooooh...where is Nv36? Even though I'd prefer ATI I'm underwhelmed.

Or maybe I shouldn't trust nomenclature ;)

Ah well, its solid proof that Mhz are not everything
 

ivan2

Diamond Member
Mar 6, 2000
5,808
0
0
www.heatware.com
I just wondering, if the 9500 Pro has the bottleneck that limits its performance so much, why are you guys still hyping about it? Isn't what you see in games the most important think you should look at?
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,414
8,356
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Originally posted by: ivan2
I just wondering, if the 9500 Pro has the bottleneck that limits its performance so much, why are you guys still hyping about it? Isn't what you see in games the most important think you should look at?

right, and the 9500 pro is still faster in games at stock speeds than the same-price 9600 pro.
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,647
26
91
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: ivan2
I just wondering, if the 9500 Pro has the bottleneck that limits its performance so much, why are you guys still hyping about it? Isn't what you see in games the most important think you should look at?

right, and the 9500 pro is still faster in games at stock speeds than the same-price 9600 pro.

Have you guys not been reading what is posted in this thread?

1) The 9600 is a cheaper card for ATI to produce. Smaller chip size (by about 50%). Cheaper for ATi to make, easier for them to drop prices faster
2) It's a cooler running chip. You see how small the heatsink is?? Quieter fan, quieter card
3) No need for additional power plug
4) Much greater overclocking headroom
5) 9500 Pro is almost gone anyway
 

JZilla

Senior member
Feb 11, 2003
630
0
0
Now we have :D

The conclusion is pretty clear, get the 9500Pro if you can. If not, there is nothing wrong with the 9600Pro, except it's a little bit slower.