Yeah, retail 8500's have always been 275/275, but the LE clock speeds have been really inconsistent regardless of whether it's retail, OEM, "Made by....", or "Powered by....". The latest trend seems to be lower and lower. A lot of the newer ATI versions are clocked at 230/230 with slower speed memory that can't be overclocked as easily (Obviously targeted for the lower end PC market). I would say that unless the manufacturer/seller specifically states that the clockspeed is 250/250, I wouldn't count on it these days. I ALMOST bought a 128mb Saphire R8500LE with 250/230 for $93, but at the last minute, I just happened to have found a retail 128mb 275/275 R8500 that was mis-priced at CircuitCity for $119.95