Radeon 8500LE, 9x00s, and FX 5200. What to get?

[KyleMac]

I still have a GeForce 2 GTS 32MB but it's crapping its pants and I kind of want some VO since I've got so used to it on my dad's laptop. So here's some cards I found:

Hercules 3DProphet 8500LE 128Mb AGP OEM £59.99 (specs say it has DVI and VO)
Crucial Radeon 8500LE 128MB DDR AGP RP DVI VO £61.08
Connect3D RADEON? 9100 128MB + VGA + DVI-D & TV £64.61
Connect3D Radeon 9000 Pro 128MB DDR AGP RP DVI VO £81.00

If I'm not mistaken I can just update the bios' of the 8500LEs to 8500 and then 9100 right? Will this cause any heat problems though? I'm going for an 8500LE but Hercules or Crucial?

On the note of tv out, is there such things as a female to female s-video adapter? I would prefer to link a 10 metre s-video cable and 1 metre s-video to composite cable with a cheap adapter rather than spend £10 on a 10 metre composite cable.


EDIT:
I'm gonna add some FX5200s to the list, getting confusing now. None of these are Ultra. I could get a Ti4400 for the price of a 5200 Ultra.

Inno3D GeForceFX 5200 128MB DDR AGP RP DVI VO £70.00
MSI GeForce4 FX5200 128MB AGP W/ TV Out + DVI (OEM) £63.35
Gainward GeForce FX 5200 128MB DDR VO £73.78
Gainward GeForce FX 5200 128MB DDR VO DVI £87.44
AOpen GeForce FX5200 128MB DDR AGP RP DVI £84.50
AOpen GeForce FX5200 128MB DDR (550Mhz 3.6ns) AGP RP DVI £84.50
Leadtek GeForce FX 5200 A340 TDH VO DVI 128Mb (4ns) £89.87

 

[JSSheridan]

If you can afford to spend 100USD, then look for a GF4 TI4200. If you go with a Radeon though, look at the clock and memory speeds to make sure they are good since memory speeds vary on the Radeons. The 8500LE/9100 should be at least 250core/230mem. Also, you shouldn't have a problem flashing the 8500, but do so at your own risk. I don't know if any benifits are gained out of that anyway. Good luck. Peace.

 

[xSauronx]

i wouldnt go to the trouble of flashing to the 9100 bios from an 8500le, rather, id flash to a retail 8500
tho, if you get one with decent memory, just use ragetweak or powerstrip to oc the thing, my sapphire 8500le was 250/250 and goes to retail 275/275 no prob, itll do 280/280 but gets annoyingly rare/mild artifacting

got mine for $70 at newegg shipped

anyway, id get the crucial 128mb, or a gf4 4200 if you can find one on sale.refurb somewhere in that price range

 

[clicknext]

I'd say get the Hercules 8500LE if the features are right for you. As for bios flashing, that's definately not a sure thing. Some people who do it will be successful and end up with a card that overclocks better and runs faster. Some will not be so lucky and will end up with a dead card. I wouldn't risk it if I were you... even though I've done it plenty of times with my Radeon8500LEs. =P

 

[rbV5]

? I'm going for an 8500LE but Hercules or Crucial?

Don't get the Crucial for sure. 6ns ram compared to 3.6ns on the retail 8500 and 3.3ns on some 8500le models. For comparison, my original AIW Radeon had 6ns ram clocked at 166Mhz...Crucial made a real stinker 8500le:frown:

 

[nemesismk2]

Originally posted by: JSSheridan
If you can afford to spend 100USD, then look for a GF4 TI4200. If you go with a Radeon though, look at the clock and memory speeds to make sure they are good since memory speeds vary on the Radeons. The 8500LE/9100 should be at least 250core/230mem. Also, you shouldn't have a problem flashing the 8500, but do so at your own risk. I don't know if any benifits are gained out of that anyway. Good luck. Peace.

Where is he going to find a GF4 Ti4200 for $100 or £63? If you check his prices they are ALL in pounds so I assume he lives in the UK not the US. The GF4 Ti4200 usually costs around £110 ($173) in the UK so it's probably abit out of his price range.

 

[nemesismk2]

Originally posted by: KyleMac
I still have a GeForce 2 GTS 32MB but it's crapping its pants and I kind of want some VO since I've got so used to it on my dad's laptop. So here's some cards I found:

Hercules 3DProphet 8500LE 128Mb AGP OEM £59.99 (specs say it has DVI and VO)
Crucial Radeon 8500LE 128MB DDR AGP RP DVI VO £61.08
Connect3D RADEON? 9100 128MB + VGA + DVI-D & TV £64.61
Connect3D Radeon 9000 Pro 128MB DDR AGP RP DVI VO £81.00

If I'm not mistaken I can just update the bios' of the 8500LEs to 8500 and then 9100 right? Will this cause any heat problems though? I'm going for an 8500LE but Hercules or Crucial?

On the note of tv out, is there such things as a female to female s-video adapter? I would prefer to link a 10 metre s-video cable and 1 metre s-video to composite cable with a cheap adapter rather than spend £10 on a 10 metre composite cable.

How about a XFX Geforce FX 5200 128mb DVI VO etc for only £71? (You wouldn't believe the amount of these I've sold in the last 2 weeks, I'll be able to retire for the second time soon!)

 

[KyleMac]

Actually, since about 10 minutes after I started this thread I've been more tempted by the FX5200s (not ultra). The problem is I've seen reviews of the FX5200 (not ultra) keeping up with a 4200, but I've also seen reviews of the FX5200 (not ultra) falling behind an MX440. If anything it seems a bit like the European and US review sites got totally different cards.

 

[nemesismk2]

Originally posted by: KyleMac
Actually, since about 10 minutes after I started this thread I've been more tempted by the FX5200s (not ultra). The problem is I've seen reviews of the FX5200 (not ultra) keeping up with a 4200, but I've also seen reviews of the FX5200 (not ultra) falling behind an MX440. If anything it seems a bit like the European and US review sites got totally different cards.

I think that some of the sites are using the older GF4 MX440 which is clocked at 270/400 and some are using the newer 8x version which is clocked faster at 275/512 (sometimes also 300/512).

Performance with the FX5200 seems to be abit hit and miss which indicates to me that it needs better drivers. It was a similar situation when the GF4 was first released, it's performance was being held back by the drivers too.

 

[KyleMac]

Originally posted by: nemesismk2
It was a similar situation when the GF4 was first released, it's performance was being held back by the drivers too.

And the GF3. This is one thing persuading me towards the FX5200. Nvidia are likely to get more out of it once the drivers are good, ATI not so much with the 8500/9100 since that core has already had its run and tweaking done.

 

[nemesismk2]

Originally posted by: KyleMac

Originally posted by: nemesismk2
It was a similar situation when the GF4 was first released, it's performance was being held back by the drivers too.

And the GF3. This is one thing persuading me towards the FX5200. Nvidia are likely to get more out of it once the drivers are good, ATI not so much with the 8500/9100 since that core has already had its run and tweaking done.

There's no guarantee's however but I think it's safe to say that Nvidia is working very hard on the drivers and if there's any performance to be gained they'll manage it. It's also worth noting that all future driver releases (v5? and beyond) will concentrate more on the Geforce FX than on the other video cards.

 

[KyleMac]

Added these to the post:

Inno3D GeForceFX 5200 128MB DDR AGP RP DVI VO £70.00
MSI GeForce4 FX5200 128MB AGP W/ TV Out + DVI (OEM) £63.35
Gainward GeForce FX 5200 128MB DDR VO £73.78
Gainward GeForce FX 5200 128MB DDR VO DVI £87.44
AOpen GeForce FX5200 128MB DDR AGP RP DVI £84.50
AOpen GeForce FX5200 128MB DDR (550Mhz 3.6ns) AGP RP DVI £84.50
Leadtek GeForce FX 5200 A340 TDH VO DVI 128Mb (4ns) £89.87

 

[nemesismk2]

Originally posted by: KyleMac
Added these to the post:

Inno3D GeForceFX 5200 128MB DDR AGP RP DVI VO £70.00
MSI GeForce4 FX5200 128MB AGP W/ TV Out + DVI (OEM) £63.35
Gainward GeForce FX 5200 128MB DDR VO £73.78
Gainward GeForce FX 5200 128MB DDR VO DVI £87.44
AOpen GeForce FX5200 128MB DDR AGP RP DVI £84.50
AOpen GeForce FX5200 128MB DDR (550Mhz 3.6ns) AGP RP DVI £84.50
Leadtek GeForce FX 5200 A340 TDH VO DVI 128Mb (4ns) £89.87

Where did you see the AOpen GeForce FX5200 128MB DDR (550Mhz 3.6ns) AGP RP DVI £84.50?

 

[KyleMac]

Originally posted by: nemesismk2
Where did you see the AOpen GeForce FX5200 128MB DDR (550Mhz 3.6ns) AGP RP DVI £84.50?

Dabs, but I have suspicions.

1) Listed twice at the same price but one is 550MHz RAM and has 3.6 in the manufacturer number.
2) Not listed on the AOpen site (yet).
3) Stock is listed as overdue.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

When the Radeon 9200 (replacing the R9000) is supposed to compete with a 5200, then I'd think it'd be safe to assume that the 8500/9100 will be the way to go here, unless you really really really want to claim you have a board that supports Dx9, which is all you'll pretty much be able to do with a 5200 as far as DX9 is concerned. 8500/9100 should provide the most performance for your money, and they seem to be decently cheaper than the 5200.

 

[KyleMac]

I'm back in the hands of an 8500LE. Please remember LE anyone who comments.

I'm trying to find a good brand with good memory. I don't know what ns the Samsung on the Hercules is but other than that the card seems good. It also appears that some manufacturers have used the "9100 is just repackaged 8500" comments to their own deeds - seems like they've managed to underclock the cards a bit during the rename.

And one question, are the 9100s repackaged 8500s or repackaged 8500LEs? Not that I think it matters considering how easy it appears to overclock the LE (bios updates, pencil trick ala Thunderbird, but it has to have 3.6ns RAM and I can't confirm this on any LEs).

 

[Blastman]

9100?s are basically updated 8500LE?s. Even the slower clocked ones still outrun a 9000pro though. I know the Sapphire 9100 64MB is 250/230 and 128 is 250/200.

Here?s a test of the Sapphire 9100 128 ?

http://www.ati-news.de/HTML/Berichte/Sapphire/R9100/Sapphire-R9100-Seite4.shtml

The 64MB 9100 would be a little faster than the 128MB because the memory is (-4ns) clocked 230.

 

[Mloot]

The 9100's by Visiontek are supposed to be 250/250 for both 64 and 128mb cards. I just got the128mb PCI 9100 and it was clocked at 250/250. I think they state the same on their website in the product specs.

 

[KyleMac]

What is "updated" in the 9100 over the 8500LEs?

EDIT: I think I might go with the Hercules 8500LE 128MB. I can only find it on dabs.com so I'm going to take a gamble and assume that they're old stock (old 250/250 cards) still lying about.

 

[clicknext]

Originally posted by: KyleMac
What is "updated" in the 9100 over the 8500LEs?

EDIT: I think I might go with the Hercules 8500LE 128MB. I can only find it on dabs.com so I'm going to take a gamble and assume that they're old stock (old 250/250 cards) still lying about.

I'm pretty sure it's nothing. I think 9100 has fullstream enabled, though I have no idea what that is.

 

[KyleMac]

Ok I think the Hercules 8500LE 128MB is a definite. If anyone thinks this is a bad choice stop me in the next 2 or 3 hours.

 

[Blastman]

The 9100 is listed as having a 1 x 400mhz RAMDAC whereas the 8500 is listed as 2 x 350mhz. So no dual monitor support on the 9100.

http://www.hardware-mag.de/hardware.php?id=115

And the 9100 is also listed as having TV-Encoder and FullStream support, although that may just be because of driver updates.

 

[KyleMac]

Originally posted by: Blastman
The 9100 is listed as having a 1 x 400mhz RAMDAC whereas the 8500 is listed as 2 x 350mhz. So no dual monitor support on the 9100.

http://www.hardware-mag.de/hardware.php?id=115

And the 9100 is also listed as having TV-Encoder and FullStream support, although that may just be because of driver updates.

Don't care if there's 1 or 2 RAMDACs.

All the 8500s have the TV Encoder too, it's the "Rage Theater" thing.

Fullstream is some video thing mainly for internet streams to reduce blockiness. According to THG apps need to support it so nothing too special there.

EDIT: I still want to run the risk of hoping that the Hercules is a 250/250. If it isn't and it's crap or I break it attempting to overclock I'll make sure I do so within a week and send it back quickly.

 

[rbV5]

whereas the 8500 is listed as 2 x 350mhz

We know the 8500(Le) uses 400MHz RAMDAC. I internal and 1 external, the external RAMDAC was omitted by some OEM's(Herc, IIRC did) which caused some grief for folks expecting to use a DVI>VGA adaptor to hook up their VGA CRT only to find that it was an DVI-D port which doesn't support analog CRT's.

Since the 9100 is a "powered by" solution, rather than a "built by", it could have the same variety of configurations that the 8500's have...meaning, research before you buy.

 

[KyleMac]

Hmm ok.

Hercules 3DProphet 8500LE 128Mb AGP OEM £63.51
Connect3D RADEON? 9100 128MB + VGA + DVI-D & TV £64.61
Sapphire ATI Radeon 9100 128MB DDR DVI/TV £78.30

Can anyone find any info on the Connect3D?


EDIT: ARAG screw the dual RAMDACs. If I ever wanted 2 monitors I can put one of my 100s of PCI Rages in. Hercules back on methinks.