Well, if you can get a Radeon 8500 for $130 it is a good deal, I don't think the Geforce 4 4400 is gonna be almost twice as fast even though the price is almost double. I recently picked up a Radeon 32MB DDR for $45 shipped and I am impressed. In Unreal Gold it averages 45fps at 1024 x 768 x 32 2X FSAA, got it running 180/180. My Gainward Geforce 2 Ti 500 at 275/521 at 1024 x 768 x 32 4X FSAA hits an impressive 85fps average. But you know what? If it weren't for the little counter on the upper left of the screen I absolutely cannot tell the difference! The Radeon plays all games smoothly and the 7189 drivers have no issues in Win98, it plays just as good as any of my Geforce cards, my kids say it looks better! I was ready to snatch up a Geforce 3 Ti 200 because prices are really low now, but I am just being a dork. If a Radeon 32MB DDR in my kids' computer can play all my games smoothly and look good with no driver issues and impress me, than I guess I have no business upgrading yet.