Racially motivated violence at World Cup..

[Syringer]

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2046144,00.html

This seems absolutely unacceptable for a modern, highly developed and liberal country (though limited to the poorer areas) in the 21st century. Having lived in California my whole life where my exposure to racism and violence is primarily from TV and movies, it's hard to envision a world where this kind of stuff still goes on. However since it seems like they're limited to more impoverished areas as you would generally find in America as well..still, there are countless incidents of soccer fans all over expressing very blatant racism at games.

I actually will be in Europe during the World Cup, though I won't be in Germany until after it's done, with a black friend of mine, and reading through this and other related stories scares me about what could happen. With the intensity and riding emotions of the World Cup, plus all the alcohol that will undoubtedly be consumed I can really see things getting ugly at one point or another..

 

[CanOWorms]

I posted some articles here a long time ago (like back in 2004 probably) about racism in European football. Some of the articles were about a stadium that segregated the spectators by race, fans who hissed to simulate Nazi gas chambers, people making monkey noises at black players, etc.

It seems like the problem is getting worse. People said that I was wrong or crazy to talk about it back then. Hopefully nothing will happen.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Without hooligans there is no soccer.

Just another reason to not watch.

 

[5150Joker]

German racists..gee I'm surprised!

 

[0roo0roo]

what do u expect? mix rabid sports fans with rabid nationalism, mix in a dash of racism.... why is it again that americans should like soccer?

 

[Excelsior]

You didn't experience much (if any) racism in California because of the area you lived in. Racism exists wherever man lives.

 

[chcarnage]

I'm really amazed by my neighbors to the north. Not that racist violence wasn't a public and political issue before, quite the contrary. But the timing of the Africa Council, or the decision to act on this occasion, makes me suspicious. I don't think that helping foreign fans is their primary objective for this campaign. It's more like they want direct the public's attention to a problem. But since the Germans in general already know well about racist violence, it's a try to build up either a political momentum or a strange kind of international pressure.

My personal opinion is that racism is not a phantom in Germany, but visitors should just act like normal tourists. Show the normal dose of prudence you have everywhere and nothing will happen.

At the beginning the Africa Council intended to make a map of Germany with zones that should be avoided because racist violence is common there. The coined the catchy term "No-Go-Area" for this (yes, english). Together with its somewhat generalising critic to former East Germany, this inspired a satirical German magazine to this caricature. Later, when their initiative was in the headlines, they resorted to verbal descriptions and instructions how to react to racism. Sure, tourist guides sometimes talk about racism too, but I find it questionable to do this with the world cup days away. By the way, their page is located here.

If a racist incident happens, expect the told-you-so talk from the African Council. If nothing happens, they'll pat themselves on the shoulders and claim that it's so because they damaged Germany's image in front of the world.

 

[thoro86]

Funny, I thought one of the purpose the World Cup exist is to unify us...

 

[Braznor]

Racism as a crime is overrated.

Sure, there will be bigots everywhere, but after the fall of institutional racism like Nazi Germany and SA apartheid, the demon has been emasticated. I don't think it can raise its head anymore to ever threaten humanity in the scale it once did.

Just laugh it away and ridicule the bigot.

 

[Tom]

Do not fool yourself. The solution to racism is education, and there are tendencies in many Western countries to see ignorance as a virtue. (Thanks Ronald Reagan.)

Everything people have done in the past, including the Holocaust, can happen again.

 

[Braznor]

Originally posted by: Tom
Do not fool yourself. The solution to racism is education, and there are tendencies in many Western countries to see ignorance as a virtue. (Thanks Ronald Reagan.)

Everything people have done in the past, including the Holocaust, can happen again.

The holocaust will happen again, but this time not by white racists.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Braznor
Racism as a crime is overrated.

Sure, there will be bigots everywhere, but after the fall of institutional racism like Nazi Germany and SA apartheid, the demon has been emasticated. I don't think it can raise its head anymore to ever threaten humanity in the scale it once did.

Just laugh it away and ridicule the bigot.

i'm sure there are places in russia or germany you couldn't walk down if you weren't white.

 

[Braznor]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Braznor
Racism as a crime is overrated.

Sure, there will be bigots everywhere, but after the fall of institutional racism like Nazi Germany and SA apartheid, the demon has been emasticated. I don't think it can raise its head anymore to ever threaten humanity in the scale it once did.

Just laugh it away and ridicule the bigot.

i'm sure there are places in russia or germany you couldn't walk down if you weren't white.

Sure, as I said, racial bigotry still exists, but is no longer state sponsored, unlike other versions of bigotry I know. Unlike other bigotry, racism is truly one which springs from ignorance today (unlike how it was inspired from Nazism fifty years ago)

The russian racists are idiots for following nazism which tried to exterminate them

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Braznor

The russian racists are idiots for following nazism which tried to exterminate them

Now I am behind you 100% on that, but then nazis are bonehead idiots. :thumbsup:

 

[Bumrush99]

The funniest part about all of this is how Euro-trash often look down upon the US for our racist history and foriegn policy, while they have their own race issues that threaten to surpass ours.. Another 20 years of Muslim immigration could lead to another Holocaust, this time against Muslims.. European anger and mistrust towards Muslims is growing, and the end result could be a lot more serious than a few hooligans at a soccor match.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
what do u expect? mix rabid sports fans with rabid nationalism, mix in a dash of racism.... why is it again that americans should like soccer?

Because in soccer, we're not the best in the world. Because you have to be in shape to play it. Because you can't get up from the game to go grab another beer. These are currently the reasons most Americans don't like soccer, and some of the reasons that I do.

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
The funniest part about all of this is how Euro-trash often look down upon the US for our racist history and foriegn policy, while they have their own race issues that threaten to surpass ours.. Another 20 years of Muslim immigration could lead to another Holocaust, this time against Muslims.. European anger and mistrust towards Muslims is growing, and the end result could be a lot more serious than a few hooligans at a soccor match.

There's an interesting book I read once... I think maybe it was called 'The Politics of Soccer.' It talks about all the ways soccer has influenced politics within nations and globally. Pretty interesting read.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
what do u expect? mix rabid sports fans with rabid nationalism, mix in a dash of racism.... why is it again that americans should like soccer?

Because in soccer, we're not the best in the world. Because you have to be in shape to play it. Because you can't get up from the game to go grab another beer. These are currently the reasons most Americans don't like soccer, and some of the reasons that I do.

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
The funniest part about all of this is how Euro-trash often look down upon the US for our racist history and foriegn policy, while they have their own race issues that threaten to surpass ours.. Another 20 years of Muslim immigration could lead to another Holocaust, this time against Muslims.. European anger and mistrust towards Muslims is growing, and the end result could be a lot more serious than a few hooligans at a soccor match.

There's an interesting book I read once... I think maybe it was called 'The Politics of Soccer.' It talks about all the ways soccer has influenced politics within nations and globally. Pretty interesting read.

I find your outlook and reasoning to be shall we say entertaining yet when one thinks about what you are saying thats hardly the truth!!

 

[chcarnage]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
The funniest part about all of this is how Euro-trash often look down upon the US for our racist history and foriegn policy, while they have their own race issues that threaten to surpass ours.. Another 20 years of Muslim immigration could lead to another Holocaust, this time against Muslims.. European anger and mistrust towards Muslims is growing, and the end result could be a lot more serious than a few hooligans at a soccor match.

The quantity of immigration isn't the main cause for xenophobia. In former East Germany the percentage of residents without citizenship is four times lower than in the West. But according to the link I posted, racist violence is several times more common in the East. Economically weak regions are more racist.

 

[imported_Pedro69]

Originally posted by: chcarnage
I'm really amazed by my neighbors to the north. Not that racist violence wasn't a public and political issue before, quite the contrary. But the timing of the Africa Council, or the decision to act on this occasion, makes me suspicious. I don't think that helping foreign fans is their primary objective for this campaign. It's more like they want direct the public's attention to a problem. But since the Germans in general already know well about racist violence, it's a try to build up either a political momentum or a strange kind of international pressure.

My personal opinion is that racism is not a phantom in Germany, but visitors should just act like normal tourists. Show the normal dose of prudence you have everywhere and nothing will happen.

At the beginning the Africa Council intended to make a map of Germany with zones that should be avoided because racist violence is common there. The coined the catchy term "No-Go-Area" for this (yes, english). Together with its somewhat generalising critic to former East Germany, this inspired a satirical German magazine to this caricature. Later, when their initiative was in the headlines, they resorted to verbal descriptions and instructions how to react to racism. Sure, tourist guides sometimes talk about racism too, but I find it questionable to do this with the world cup days away. By the way, their page is located here.

If a racist incident happens, expect the told-you-so talk from the African Council. If nothing happens, they'll pat themselves on the shoulders and claim that it's so because they damaged Germany's image in front of the world.

Aparently noone took the time to visit your link otherwise they would notice that even in the worst state in germany (Sachsen-Anhalt) the possibility that you could be a victim of a racial motivated crime is 4.29:100.000. In the majority of the states it is below 2:100.000 and in some even below 1:100.000.

The thing is, it is a headline which includes Germany and Racism and everybody jumps the bandwagon. If this would've been any other country it would be burried somewhere deep down and noone would say a beep.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Strange, from most of the commentary & reporting I've heard on NPR, I hadn't gathered that racism in Germany was particularly insidious compared to other nations in Europe. They keep naming Portugal & Spain as especially bad.

I'd just like to see what would happen if a white fan started making monkey noises at black athletes at an NBA or NFL game. The other fans (including other whites) would probably tear the stupid SOB from limb to limb.

 

[Braznor]

Originally posted by: Pedro69

Originally posted by: chcarnage
I'm really amazed by my neighbors to the north. Not that racist violence wasn't a public and political issue before, quite the contrary. But the timing of the Africa Council, or the decision to act on this occasion, makes me suspicious. I don't think that helping foreign fans is their primary objective for this campaign. It's more like they want direct the public's attention to a problem. But since the Germans in general already know well about racist violence, it's a try to build up either a political momentum or a strange kind of international pressure.

My personal opinion is that racism is not a phantom in Germany, but visitors should just act like normal tourists. Show the normal dose of prudence you have everywhere and nothing will happen.

At the beginning the Africa Council intended to make a map of Germany with zones that should be avoided because racist violence is common there. The coined the catchy term "No-Go-Area" for this (yes, english). Together with its somewhat generalising critic to former East Germany, this inspired a satirical German magazine to this caricature. Later, when their initiative was in the headlines, they resorted to verbal descriptions and instructions how to react to racism. Sure, tourist guides sometimes talk about racism too, but I find it questionable to do this with the world cup days away. By the way, their page is located here.

If a racist incident happens, expect the told-you-so talk from the African Council. If nothing happens, they'll pat themselves on the shoulders and claim that it's so because they damaged Germany's image in front of the world.

Aparently noone took the time to visit your link otherwise they would notice that even in the worst state in germany (Sachsen-Anhalt) the possibility that you could be a victim of a racial motivated crime is 4.29:100.000. In the majority of the states it is below 2:100.000 and in some even below 1:100.000.

The thing is, it is a headline which includes Germany and Racism and everybody jumps the bandwagon. If this would've been any other country it would be burried somewhere deep down and noone would say a beep.

:thumbsup:

I'am Indian and I have just heard about 3 to 4 attacks on Indians in Russia (out of a community of several thousands) Leave it to the media to jump on the news and magnify it to ridiculous lengths.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
The funniest part about all of this is how Euro-trash often look down upon the US for our racist history and foriegn policy, while they have their own race issues that threaten to surpass ours.. Another 20 years of Muslim immigration could lead to another Holocaust, this time against Muslims.. European anger and mistrust towards Muslims is growing, and the end result could be a lot more serious than a few hooligans at a soccor match.

The difference is that Europeans will call you whatever name to your face while Americans do it behind your back.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
The funniest part about all of this is how Euro-trash often look down upon the US for our racist history and foriegn policy, while they have their own race issues that threaten to surpass ours.. Another 20 years of Muslim immigration could lead to another Holocaust, this time against Muslims.. European anger and mistrust towards Muslims is growing, and the end result could be a lot more serious than a few hooligans at a soccor match.

FYI, I have encountered more hate and anger (and pure misunderstanding) toward muslims from the Americans on this forum than I have ever encountered anywhere in Europe.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
The funniest part about all of this is how Euro-trash often look down upon the US for our racist history and foriegn policy, while they have their own race issues that threaten to surpass ours.. Another 20 years of Muslim immigration could lead to another Holocaust, this time against Muslims.. European anger and mistrust towards Muslims is growing, and the end result could be a lot more serious than a few hooligans at a soccor match.

The difference is that Europeans will call you whatever name to your face while Americans do it behind your back.

This is actually probably a good thing, a lot of French and Germans are extremely rude in my experience, there's no need for that. At least Americans hate you politely

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
The funniest part about all of this is how Euro-trash often look down upon the US for our racist history and foriegn policy, while they have their own race issues that threaten to surpass ours.. Another 20 years of Muslim immigration could lead to another Holocaust, this time against Muslims.. European anger and mistrust towards Muslims is growing, and the end result could be a lot more serious than a few hooligans at a soccor match.

FYI, I have encountered more hate and anger (and pure misunderstanding) toward muslims from the Americans on this forum than I have ever encountered anywhere in Europe.

That my be true on this forum, but surveys show that Americans view Muslims favorably (on par with Evangelical Christians) while survey after survey in Europe shows a massive dislike of Muslims.

I think that the potential for another genocide in Europe is growing by the day.