Race and Hollywood

[Subyman]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/18/us-awards-oscars-poll-idUSKBN0LM22820150218

In a year when a lack of diversity among Academy Awards nominees prompted the Twitter hashtag #OscarsSoWhite, one-third of Americans believe Hollywood does not pay proper attention to minorities and women, according to the annual Reuters/Ipsos Oscars poll.

I found this article strange. Particularly the section about the movie "Selma." It was nominated for a few categories, but people were upset that it wasn't nominated for more. They then tried to turn the fact that it wasn't nominated for more into Hollywood or the Oscars being racist. I find that a bit worrisome because A) the people crying racism instantly trivialize all the other award winning movies that came out that year B) they assume Selma is deserving of an honor because they subjectively think it is the best movie out there C) this outcry could actually harm the Oscars AND minority actors because behind-the-scenes they may begin to have mandatory quotas on the awards based on race.

C is the most troubling to me. What good is an award if it doesn't represent the people of highest merit?

Is this another area were SJWs are frothing at the mouth?

 

[Victorian Gray]

It's Hollywood. It's media looking to sell views, clicks, whatever. It's a population that largely looks to be entertained/outraged/entranced 24/7. It's pundits punditing. It's modern America.

 

[Caravaggio]

I found this article strange. Particularly the section about the movie "Selma." ..... They then tried to turn the fact that it wasn't nominated for more into Hollywood or the Oscars being racist. I find that a bit worrisome because A) the people crying racism instantly trivialize all the other award winning movies that came out that year B) they assume Selma is deserving of an honor because they subjectively think it is the best movie out there ....

Forgive me editing your words so radically but I'll confine my comments to the film Selma.

It is a good film, a worthy film, well acted and passionate in its aims.

But there are problems. It fiddles with history to make aspects of the plot more dramatic by altering the script (by Paul Webb) to make LBJ seem opposed to M.L. King, which is a distortion of the truth. The director made these changes, according to a BBC World Service interview with Webb four days ago. Webb was not bitter about the alterations but he saw them as a device to exaggerate a difference where none existed.
Another problem is that Oyelowo does not quite capture King's vocal pace and intonation.
With so many excellent films up for the Oscar this year (personally I hope 'Boyhood' wins) I am afraid that Selma is not really in the top 5, IMHO.

As Victorian Gray points out, the whole circus is a business frenzy which often ends-up with ludicrous results.
Never forget that John Ford won best film for "How Green was My Valley". Watch it today and it seems utterly insane as all the 'Welsh' had Irish or American accents and the poor Welsh miners lived in gleaming palaces set in California. Great comedy now though.

 

[Subyman]

I completely agree with you about Oyelowo. I found it a very strange pick for MLK. Sometimes his voice has a British tilt and he doesn't capture the southern pastor melody that MLK is well known for. The main reason I found this story strange is because it was on Reuters. If it was on Fox News or TMZ, then its just another article in the noise, but I thought there may be actual outcry when it was posted to reuters.

 

[Caravaggio]

... I found it a very strange pick for MLK. Sometimes his voice has a British tilt and he doesn't capture the southern pastor melody that MLK is well known for. The main reason I found this story strange is because it was on Reuters. If it was on Fox News or TMZ, then its just another article in the noise, but I thought there may be actual outcry when it was posted to reuters.

Amen to all that.
Surely, there must be a US-born and raised actor who can come close to the vocal tone of MLK?

'Getting in a Brit' is often the choice which the money-men in Hollywood trust.
"He has won an Oscar already, for CSake, he is the obvious choice, how could that go wrong?"
It goes wrong, 'cos the actor does not sound right, because he has not lived through that place, those issues, that time.
And a black audience will not engage with a portrayal of a black guy they know well if it lacks authenticity.
Morgan Freeman could not do Obama, great though MF he is.

So, in a very weird way, employing the wrong black guy, Oscar winner or no, could actually BE a racist choice. (Going back to your OP)

I know that sounds batty but in my version of Rosa Parks's biopic, Rosa has to be an American. She needs to be played by someone , who has at least once, sat on a bus.

 

[spacejamz]

wonder if the 34% of the 2000 they polled had a problem with the diversity in the NFL or NBA...

 

[oobydoobydoo]

Hollywood has always fancied itself to be very progressive... but it's not really all that progressive at all. The pay is even more steeply tiered than a hedge fund, and yes white people win more awards than they probably should. If anything by virtue of the judges being white, and just not relating to the minority characters as much.

I think it's best to just leave the voting alone because any attempt at "affirmative action" for these awards is going to probably go way too far in the other direction and on top of that will surely cause a huge controversy.

 

[Caravaggio]

.....If anything by virtue of the judges being white, and just not relating to the minority characters as much.

I think it's best to just leave the voting alone because any attempt at "affirmative action" for these awards is going to probably go way too far in the other direction and on top of that will surely cause a huge controversy.

You raise an important issue. Who are the academy members? How many are black?
How many votes does a producer have?
If a past winner has a current entry can she/he vote? Does a screenwriter/director/ actor get three votes?
Do you have to live in the LA catchment?

Why the secrecy? Protection from bribery or vengeance?

 

[finglobes]

Black artists and entertainers win awards left and right. 12 Tears a Slave won awards last year. Fact is Selma people felt entitled to win an Oscar when its really not that great a film. Oprah has been trying a long time to crash the gate and gets egoish about it. Color Purple continues to be as her best work on screen.

 

[Ackmed]

Yep, 12 Years won best pic last year. Selma isn't that great of a film. Just because a movie is about a significant person in history or an world event doesn't mean it should win awards. Fact is there are far more white actors than black, so obviously more white will be nominated and win.

Just like these people complaining about a black actor being killed in The Walking Dead, even hash tagging #blacklivesmatter. When the TV show is following a comic book series. And the episode before a young, blonde, white girl died. Just fucking stupid and makes them look like tools.

You raise an important issue. Who are the academy members? How many are black?
How many votes does a producer have?
If a past winner has a current entry can she/he vote? Does a screenwriter/director/ actor get three votes?
Do you have to live in the LA catchment?

Why the secrecy? Protection from bribery or vengeance?

I don't agree with having a certain number or race or anything else just because. If someone doesn't deserve to be in a place of power, then they shouldn't be. Putting someone there just because you feel like you have to fill some idiotic quota is silly.

 

[Caravaggio]

Yep, 12 Years won best pic last year. Selma isn't that great of a film. Just because a movie is about a significant person in history or an world event doesn't mean it should win awards. Fact is there are far more white actors than black, so obviously more white will be nominated and win.

I think most contributors here agree that Selma is not that great a film. But the guy who played MLK, David Oyelowo, made an interesting point that Oscars can be won by black actors in subservient roles (Chiwetel Ejiofor, in 12 Years) but the Academy turn away from black characters with power and influence.
If, as you rightly say, most Academy members are white then that could imply a sort of racism. Or it might just mean that Mr. Oyelowo was not that good?

I don't agree with having a certain number or race or anything else just because. If someone doesn't deserve to be in a place of power, then they shouldn't be. Putting someone there just because you feel like you have to fill some idiotic quota is silly.

Agreed, I don't like quotas either. The point I was trying to make was about the secrecy of the Academy. If they are such great judges of film and such great film-makers themselves, why can we not have a list of names?
They have just given 'best film' to Birdman. It was manic and fanciful, complete with CGI nonsense thrown in. This beat the brilliant and original Boyhood which took 12 years to make and used real people who did not fly. This perverse decision makes me wonder about the sanity of the secret Academy.
Gwyneth Paltrow is an Academy member. Her ex-husband claims to have completed her voting form.
I find this worrying.

 

[Smoblikat]

Why arent more minorities/women talented enough to be at the oscars? The problem isnt that the oscars need to pander to your emotional bullshit, the problem is that you need to try harder if you want to be in the oscars. But who cares anyway, hollywood is just BS anyway.

 

[soulcougher73]

People watch the Oscars?

 

[chowderhead]

Selma did get nominated for a Best Picture award. Paramount didn't send out screener copies of the movie to the guilds because the movie came in late. That is Paramount's issue since they are so worried about piracy. Guild members vote on the guild awards which build momentum for the movie. Blame Paramount.

 

[Subyman]

You raise an important issue. Who are the academy members? How many are black?
How many votes does a producer have?
If a past winner has a current entry can she/he vote? Does a screenwriter/director/ actor get three votes?
Do you have to live in the LA catchment?

Why the secrecy? Protection from bribery or vengeance?

I don't think it is an important issue. The argument that the judges needs to be black to properly determine the merit of a black actor doesn't instill much faith in humanity. I think a diverse make up would be nice, but to say a white panel would only choose whites is not thinking very highly of the judges' capacity to make a decent choice.

 

[Subyman]

Yep, 12 Years won best pic last year. Selma isn't that great of a film. Just because a movie is about a significant person in history or an world event doesn't mean it should win awards. Fact is there are far more white actors than black, so obviously more white will be nominated and win.

Summed it up nicely. Funny how quickly people forget last year.

 

[K1052]

I think most contributors here agree that Selma is not that great a film. But the guy who played MLK, David Oyelowo, made an interesting point that Oscars can be won by black actors in subservient roles (Chiwetel Ejiofor, in 12 Years) but the Academy turn away from black characters with power and influence.

I don't think he had a point at all since it is factually inaccurate going back a couple decades.

Best Actor:
Forest Whitaker - Last King of Scotland / 2006
Jamie Fox - Ray / 2004
Denzel Washington - Training Day / 2001

Best Supporting:

Louis Gosseet Jr - An Officer and A Gentleman /1981
Cuba Gooding Jr - Jerry Maguire / 1996
Morgan Freeman - Million Dollar Baby / 2004

12 Years A Slave won best picture though it was nominated in many categories. The entire process is highly political and reading too deeply into it as some sort of barometer of racial moods is not all that useful. Often it comes down to how heavily a studio is willing to promote their film for voting. There is a reason the Weinstiens walk away with a disproportionate share of awards on a pretty regular basis. Certain stories will always enjoy preferential treatment as well....I mean Argo is about how Hollywood saved the day even though it was a pretty meh film and it took best picture away from better films (Life of Pi, Lincoln, etc).

 

[Ns1]

hollywood is super racist, which is why they awarded mexican directors best pictures for 2 years running.

 

[K1052]

hollywood is super racist, which is why they awarded mexican directors best pictures for 2 years running.

And cinematography.

 

[PokerGuy]

It's just feigned outrage by the usual PC crowd to drum up more extortion business for themselves.

 

[Caravaggio]

I don't think it is an important issue. The argument that the judges needs to be black to properly determine the merit of a black actor doesn't instill much faith in humanity.

I never said that judges needed to be black to vote for 'black theme' films. That would be racist nonsense. You are creating a straw man to have poke at. I asked why we cannot know who is given a vote?

My point was that the Academy is a feudal secret society, overwhelmingly white, aged and male. ( data from wiki).
Only a third of members have been winners or nominees in the various categories. So two thirds have not. Membership is for life and by invitation only. Nominations are invited secretly from an inner core. However talented you are I cannot nominate you.

You don't need to be a maths genius to work out what is going to happen in a secret club like that. Existing structures will become 'amplified'. Like a New England golf club.

If everything is sweet, democratic and pure, why not publish the names of all academicians?

Ain't gonna happen, is it? Loss of control....and power... And influence.
The process stinks. Would you vote for a secret society to give out your prizes?
Without knowing the names of those with the power to cripple or advance a career?

 

[Newell Steamer]

The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences count about 6,100 as members, but the organization doesn’t disclose the ethnic breakdown of members publicly. A 2012 LA Times report found 94% of members were white, and 77% were male.

How to become a member; http://www.oscars.org/about/join-academy

So, why don't these groups that are crying foul 1st tap the existing black members to push for more black members,.. they themselves can sponsor them!

 

[OutHouse]

But who cares anyway, hollywood is just BS anyway.

nobody, nobody at all.

 

[blake0812]

nobody, nobody at all.

Well apparently there are, enough to complain about this issue it seems. The problem I see is that if everyone ignores and turns their backs to it, what happens if the people in charge of the Oscars really do enforce something? Would they change for a fringe minority? I doubt it, but the possibility hangs in the air. I'm just rambling on though.

 

[IGBT]

The Hollywort crowd have a bloated sense of self importance. Vast majority of them are irrelevant.. have never graduated from college or high school. Who cares what they think. They are the flunkTard D students in the back of the classroom.