R520 is still facing power-leakage and heat-dissipation issues

[HDTVMan]

Snippit found at the bottom of the article.

In related news, the motherboard makers indicated Rival ATI Technologies? R520 is still facing power-leakage and heat-dissipation issues

http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20050815A6028.html

Im betting this is why there is the rumor of another tapout on the way. So what is the truth here? Is the chip coming out in September? This the true R520 or R520 with pipes disabled and or lower clock speed? What is going on?

 

[Genx87]

If they have to tape it out again then realistically we are looking at November\December timeframe now.

What is their reason for leakage? Are they trying for high clock rates? Some rumors have said the R520 is a 16 ROP and 16 pixel pipe card but with really high >600Mhz clock to make up for the difference in resources.

This will be a tough cookie to get working.

 

[HDTVMan]

Thats the thing. No questions to answers. I think that the reason is now even ATI doesnt even know what the final R520 will do. Even Intel didnt see the problems associated with 90nm.

My questions are they getting any good R520 from yeilds or are they going to be hand picked? I suspect its a cherry pick now but are they even reaching their potential?

When AMD had problems with 90nm and couldnt solve it they eventually after a lengthy failure (something like 9 months?) went to IBM to resolve their problems. This was the Opteron's main delay. IBM had solved most of the AMD 90nm issues in only a few weeks and AMD 90nm parts started rolling. Is ATI working with anyone outside of themselves on the problem? If not they they could be putting themselves down the same road as AMD did.

This can only mean that ATI R520 is not a 7800 killer. The question then becomes how good are these chips if they arent reaching their targeted speed? Also if yeilds arent good how many pipes will be available?

I think ATI shot for the moon of a massive 7800 killer and 90nm is killing that reality for ATI.

 

[vision33r]

Speculation... all speculation..

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: HDTVMan
Thats the thing. No questions to answers. I think that the reason is now even ATI doesnt even know what the final R520 will do. Even Intel didnt see the problems associated with 90nm.

My questions are they getting any good R520 from yeilds or are they going to be hand picked? I suspect its a cherry pick now but are they even reaching their potential?

When AMD had problems with 90nm and couldnt solve it they eventually after a lengthy failure (something like 9 months?) went to IBM to resolve their problems. This was the Opteron's main delay. IBM had solved most of the AMD 90nm issues in only a few weeks and AMD 90nm parts started rolling. Is ATI working with anyone outside of themselves on the problem? If not they they could be putting themselves down the same road as AMD did.

This can only mean that ATI R520 is not a 7800 killer. The question then becomes how good are these chips if they arent reaching their targeted speed? Also if yeilds arent good how many pipes will be available?

I think ATI shot for the moon of a massive 7800 killer and 90nm is killing that reality for ATI.

However, if they get it all worked out now, then with the gen after, they will be slightly ahead of nVidia as they will be on a very mature 90nm process while nVidia will just be starting the transition to 90nm.
If they can get something out of the current gen (and especially this will be true if they release their budget lines at the same time as the high end like they're supposed to) then getting through the 90nm problems will stand them in good stead for the future.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: HDTVMan
Thats the thing. No questions to answers. I think that the reason is now even ATI doesnt even know what the final R520 will do. Even Intel didnt see the problems associated with 90nm.

My questions are they getting any good R520 from yeilds or are they going to be hand picked? I suspect its a cherry pick now but are they even reaching their potential?

When AMD had problems with 90nm and couldnt solve it they eventually after a lengthy failure (something like 9 months?) went to IBM to resolve their problems. This was the Opteron's main delay. IBM had solved most of the AMD 90nm issues in only a few weeks and AMD 90nm parts started rolling. Is ATI working with anyone outside of themselves on the problem? If not they they could be putting themselves down the same road as AMD did.

This can only mean that ATI R520 is not a 7800 killer. The question then becomes how good are these chips if they arent reaching their targeted speed? Also if yeilds arent good how many pipes will be available?

I think ATI shot for the moon of a massive 7800 killer and 90nm is killing that reality for ATI.

However, if they get it all worked out now, then with the gen after, they will be slightly ahead of nVidia as they will be on a very mature 90nm process while nVidia will just be starting the transition to 90nm.
If they can get something out of the current gen (and especially this will be true if they release their budget lines at the same time as the high end like they're supposed to) then getting through the 90nm problems will stand them in good stead for the future.

Nvidia is already producing two IC's on the 90nm process. Either TSMC's 90nm is borked and ATI is paying the price(ala NV30 for Nvidiai and 130nm) or ATI's design is at its limit in terms of what it can do.

Chances are the problems ATI is currently experiencing on 90nm will not affect Nvidia the same way.

Remember Nvidia having problems with 130nm and ATI didnt?

 

[rise]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
However, if they get it all worked out now, then with the gen after, they will be slightly ahead of nVidia as they will be on a very mature 90nm process while nVidia will just be starting the transition to 90nm.

isn't the rsx(?) for ps3 on 90nm?

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: rise4310

Originally posted by: Lonyo
However, if they get it all worked out now, then with the gen after, they will be slightly ahead of nVidia as they will be on a very mature 90nm process while nVidia will just be starting the transition to 90nm.

isn't the rsx(?) for ps3 on 90nm?

Yup, but its being fabbed by sony, not TSMC/UMC.

Whole different ballgame.

 

[Dman877]

Isn't the X800XL on .90? They don't seem to have any problems curning those out. Seems like nvidia is back to steam-rolling the competition with their ability to deliver the goods. It was the 6 month product cycle that killed 3dfx iirc...

 

[edmundoab]

LOL its on 90nm ?
damn, I didnt even know,
thought it was 0.13 micron all these while/

 

[rbV5]

Isn't the X800XL on .90?

X800 XL = 110 nm process

 

[malG]

No wonder ATI's stocks are sinking faster than the Titanic in a heavily mined area amidst falling comets and two heavily armed hostile battleships. I guess the insiders have bailed ship: http://quotes.nasdaq.com/quote.dll?page...&symbol=&symbol=&symbol=&selected=nvda

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: HDTVMan
Thats the thing. No questions to answers. I think that the reason is now even ATI doesnt even know what the final R520 will do. Even Intel didnt see the problems associated with 90nm.

My questions are they getting any good R520 from yeilds or are they going to be hand picked? I suspect its a cherry pick now but are they even reaching their potential?

When AMD had problems with 90nm and couldnt solve it they eventually after a lengthy failure (something like 9 months?) went to IBM to resolve their problems. This was the Opteron's main delay. IBM had solved most of the AMD 90nm issues in only a few weeks and AMD 90nm parts started rolling. Is ATI working with anyone outside of themselves on the problem? If not they they could be putting themselves down the same road as AMD did.

This can only mean that ATI R520 is not a 7800 killer. The question then becomes how good are these chips if they arent reaching their targeted speed? Also if yeilds arent good how many pipes will be available?

I think ATI shot for the moon of a massive 7800 killer and 90nm is killing that reality for ATI.

Then again the R500 for the Xbox360 is being made on the 90nm die. And is the future chip for th R600 with of course lots of improvements.

And you know whos making those chips, yes, TSMC (or which ever way round it is ). Who are also doing the R520 on the 90nm die.

 

[Killrose]

This news explains why there are no R520 sightings, leaked benches, preview's, ect.
Not good for Ati, not good for the consumer unless your after a last gen Ati board.

 

[nRollo]

Where GhandiInstinct when you need him?
(guy who works at ATI, although I doubt he could confirm or deny anyway)

This would seem to be in direct contradiction of what the ATI rep was saying at Quakecon, unless he was talking about a paper launch in September. (or another "vendor has two in stock for 38 seconds" deal like the X800XT PE)

They must be losing many millions on these delays and tape outs, a good time to buy ATI stock as it's likely to rebound some if they can ever get this card out the door.

 

[Jaskalas]

Not good for the consumer in terms of prices either. I enjoy my 6800GT and all, but I never mind ATI coming out strong and forcing prices down.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Not good for the consumer in terms of prices either. I enjoy my 6800GT and all, but I never mind ATI coming out strong and forcing prices down.

This aspect of it I'm not as sure about.

Prices have come down considerably on the all nVidia products in the absence of any product from ATI. There are good deals to be had, and supply/demand sets the price.
Availability of comparable goods is just one aspect of the demand side of the equation.

 

[biostud]

It could just be based on old info.

 

[BigfootKevin]

bleh, I still got faith in ATI that they can pull something off worth looking at.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: Rollo
Where GhandiInstinct when you need him?
(guy who works at ATI, although I doubt he could confirm or deny anyway)

This would seem to be in direct contradiction of what the ATI rep was saying at Quakecon, unless he was talking about a paper launch in September. (or another "vendor has two in stock for 38 seconds" deal like the X800XT PE)

They must be losing many millions on these delays and tape outs, a good time to buy ATI stock as it's likely to rebound some if they can ever get this card out the door.

If they get this card out of the door at the same time as the RV515 and RV530, then they won't be in too bad a position. While they may have short supply of high end cards, a new range of mid/low end cards aheah of anything nVidia may do (aside from dropping prices on current products) would be good assuming a good supply of those cards (and there are rumours that production is being ramped up already).
High end is not the only part of the graphics market.

 

[KeepItRed]

Originally posted by: HDTVMan
Snippit found at the bottom of the article.

In related news, the motherboard makers indicated Rival ATI Technologies? R520 is still facing power-leakage and heat-dissipation issues

http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20050815A6028.html

Im betting this is why there is the rumor of another tapout on the way. So what is the truth here? Is the chip coming out in September? This the true R520 or R520 with pipes disabled and or lower clock speed? What is going on?

Dave Block at ATi and I keep in touch via E-mails and I asked about release dates for the R520 and all he said was:

"I suggest you check ATI.com in the near future."

So this heat thing is most likely just a small issue that can be fixed fast otherwise I'm assuming the R520 is in the touch up stage.

 

[dug777]

i don't mind waiting...better they get it right rather than embarrass themselves like nvidia did with the fx 5800...

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: HDTVMan

Then again the R500 for the Xbox360 is being made on the 90nm die. And is the future chip for th R600 with of course lots of improvements.

And you know whos making those chips, yes, TSMC (or which ever way round it is ). Who are also doing the R520 on the 90nm die.

Well, when is the XBox360 supposed to be hitting the market to be sold? Holiday Season right? Thats 4 months away. What is the ETA for this to hit retail channels? It's not like it's ready to be bought right now is it?
Sony's PS3 isn't supposed to be ready til 2006-2007 isn't that right? The RSX on a 90nm process.

I think that the amount of transistors currently being employed on a 90nm process is extremely rushed. ahead of its time. ATI may have done a lot better sticking with the 110nm process for one more gen. I know, hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Killrose]

I thought the R520 had passed the Siggraph qualification (or whatever) and was "good to go" into production. Is this "new" R520 news really some older news that has somehow gotten re-circulated?

However, looking at Ati's stock which still takes daily hits, it would appear to be true. Ati execs must really be liking Sturday's and Sunday's

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: KeepItRed

Originally posted by: HDTVMan
Snippit found at the bottom of the article.

In related news, the motherboard makers indicated Rival ATI Technologies? R520 is still facing power-leakage and heat-dissipation issues

http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20050815A6028.html

Im betting this is why there is the rumor of another tapout on the way. So what is the truth here? Is the chip coming out in September? This the true R520 or R520 with pipes disabled and or lower clock speed? What is going on?

Dave Block at ATi and I keep in touch via E-mails and I asked about release dates for the R520 and all he said was:

"I suggest you check ATI.com in the near future."

So this heat thing is most likely just a small issue that can be fixed fast otherwise I'm assuming the R520 is in the touch up stage.

What does this guy do for ATI? He a CS rep?