R250: ATI to Announce RADEON 8500XT and RV250 in March

[AGodspeed]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1013384864

The cards built on RADEON 8500XT and RADEON 8800 will be equipped with 128MB high-speed DDR SDRAM, and the chips will be made with 0.15micron manufacturing technology. The chip and memory frequency of RADEON 8500XT cards will equal 300MHz, and of RADEON 8800 cards ? 350MHz.

And a little bit about the R300:

As for the next generation R300 chip, ATI is going to showcase its first samples only in May. The announcement of this GPU supposedly getting the name RADEON 9x00 will take place only in early autumn.

 

[Woody419]

Now the big question is...get the 8500 for $229 at Mwave while they last, or wait a month and pay at least $299 for the new ones. I for one, am waiting.

 

[babylon5]

I have been holding off buying a new video card for a year and a half.
Mainly the price drop on 8500 is what I am holding for.

The new ones are damn nice, 128 MB. About 80 buck more. I must say
it's tempting to get the newer ones...decision decision....

 

[Ryan]

Awesome! Hopefully they can keep up with NVidia

 

[Akaz1976]

i also hope the ATi would be able to keep Nvidia honest but for now i am pretty much decided at GF4-4200 unless ATi really surprises me

Akaz

 

[NFS4]

Please, PLEASE have some solid drivers on launch!!! Even so, after getting burned on WinXP drivers and lockups with my TV Wonder, I'm going to take a wait and see approach with ATI from now on.

 

[GTaudiophile]

<< So it looks like R300 won't be around until NV30 is out.... >>



Ummm...NV25 just came out and won't actually be available on store shelves for another month or so. According to the report you mention, R300 will be available just as nVidia's "Fall Refresh" of NV25 comes out. NV30 won't come out until next Spring. Or do I have my numbers wrong here?

 

[Akaz1976]

Right on GT, prolly wont see GF5 (or what ever) till spring

Akaz

 

[Sunner]

NV25 is the spring part, by autumn, there should be another part out, if it turns out to be NV2X or NV30, I dont know.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Isn't nVidia's 6-month cycle like this:

Spring: New part, NV20/GeForce 3
Fall: Refresh of Spring part, NV20/GeForce 3 Ti500/Ti200

If ATi were smart, they wouldn't position their 6-month cycle as the same as nVidia's. They would introduce their latest and greatest in the Fall and refresh it in the Spring (what they've done with R200). That would be best for consumers too: having a new, "revolutionary" part every 6 months.

 

[Akaz1976]

Thats what ATi seems to be doing. Refresh of R200 would come now (128 DDR etc) and the R300 should show up when Nvidia comes out with GF4 refresh in fall. SO right now ATI would be aiming to stay in teh game and in fall it would try to get ahead (just like it would have gone ahead last fall, over teh Ti's, if 8500 had had good drivers)


Akaz

 

[NFS4]

It's a constant see-saw battle with these two...

 

[Ryan]

<< Here's my theory on what is going to happen:

[*]R250 comes out with subpar drivers w/performance below the NV25
[*]ATI releases a string of beta drivers over the course of 2-3 months that sort through the bugs and increase performance gradually
[*]ATI finally releases a beta set of drivers that match or exceed the NV25
[*]NVIDIA slaps up a big "&#$* You" and releases Detonator 5 drivers that leave any doubt of the performance leader
[*]NVIDIA says, hell, I'm going for a slam dunk and releases the GeForce4 Plutonium
[*]ATI release some official drivers that match up in performance to the GeForce4 Plutonium after about a month
[*]NVIDIA says kiss my ass and releases NV30, GF5

And the cycle continues... >>



I couldn't have said it better myself

 

[BFG10K]

The chip and memory frequency of RADEON 8500XT cards will equal 300MHz, and of RADEON 8800 cards ? 350MHz.

Sounds good and if ATi can deliver some solid drivers and performance I'll be hooked on the 8800. 700 MHz memory should make it faster than the Ti4600.

 

[JellyBaby]

It's only a circus if you perceive it that way. What I see is fairly healthy competition, increasing performance and relatively good value from both camps. It's all good.

At least ATI won't need to fuss with a new OS from MS this year. That ought to make their driver efforts a little easier.

 

[GTaudiophile]

NFS4: Where is R300 in that picture? Geez, I certainly hope ATi goes out of business for your sake, so you can start spending $300+ for an entry-level videocard.

 

[NFS4]

<< NFS4: Where is R300 in that picture? Geez, I certainly hope ATi goes out of business for your sake, so you can start spending $300+ for an entry-level videocard. >>


Some where around the time the Plutonium bomb explodes...but don't worry, ATI won't go out of biz...I see that you have 3 of 'em in your rigs

 

[Rand]

<< Isn't nVidia's 6-month cycle like this:

Spring: New part, NV20/GeForce 3
Fall: Refresh of Spring part, NV20/GeForce 3 Ti500/Ti200

If ATi were smart, they wouldn't position their 6-month cycle as the same as nVidia's. They would introduce their latest and greatest in the Fall and refresh it in the Spring (what they've done with R200). That would be best for consumers too: having a new, "revolutionary" part every 6 months. >>



The way I look at it the GF4 IS the refresh of the GF3 core, the Ti200/Ti500 werent really a "refresh" they were exactly the same as the original GF3 just at differing clockspeeds. The GF4 is the refresh and 'enhancement' of the GF3 core. Just as the GF2 was the modified 'enhancement' to the original GeForce.
Even nVidia's roadmaps show the NV30 as their next chip after the GF4.

 

[Sunner]

I frankly have my doubt as to whether ATi will be able to hang on to nVidia, but I hope they do.

But then, Im a pessimist, I still have my doubts about whether AMD will be able to move uo alongside Intel.

 

[Rand]

<< Here's my theory on what is going to happen:

[*]R250 comes out with subpar drivers w/performance below the NV25
[*]ATI releases a string of beta drivers over the course of 2-3 months that sort through the bugs and increase performance gradually
[*]ATI finally releases a beta set of drivers that match or exceed the NV25
[*]NVIDIA slaps up a big "&#$* You" and releases Detonator 5 drivers that leave no doubt of the performance leader
[*]NVIDIA says, hell, I'm going for a slam dunk and releases the GeForce4 Plutonium
[*]ATI releases some official drivers that match up in performance to the GeForce4 Plutonium after about a month
[*]NVIDIA says kiss my ass and releases NV30, GF5

And the cycle continues... >>



Well IMHO ATi's drivers already have imporved considerably, personally I see few problems left and their dont seem to be that many that are having trouble anymore. Ironically nVidia seems to be slacking off now as they've had a number of bugs in the Det4's that still need to be fixed.



<< NVIDIA slaps up a big "&#$* You" and releases Detonator 5 drivers that leave no doubt of the performance leader >>


I don't expect them to release any new drivers to dramatically improve the performance of the GF4 as it is at the heart very similar to the GF3 with a few minor modifications... and the GF3 already recieved it's "enhancement" drivers in the Det4's.



<< Sounds good and if ATi can deliver some solid drivers and performance I'll be hooked on the 8800. 700 MHz memory should make it faster than the Ti4600. >>



Well keep in mind the R8500 already supposedly had more memory bandwdith then the Ti500 and it still fell behind in most cases. I think the GF4's more efficient memory controller should more then make up for the theoretical bandwidth advantage of the R8800.... unless of course ATi has improved the memory controller in the R8800, which is possible as they slightly modify the memory controller of the R7500 compared to it's other 7XXX brethren.

 

[BFG10K]

Ironically nVidia seems to be slacking off now as they've had a number of bugs in the Det4's that still need to be fixed.

I agree. nVidia are definitely not fixing those bugs like they used to. Now they're mainly focused on speed and features rather than bug fixes. Make no mistake - nVidia's drivers are still superb but there are more and more minor little glitches that are starting to annoy me.

Well keep in mind the R8500 already supposedly had more memory bandwdith then the Ti500 and it still fell behind in most cases.

The gap is closer than you might think (and what I thought too). I was looking at some newer benchmarks today and the Radeon 8500 edges the Ti500 in some significant benchmarks (Giants, Quake3, RTCW etc). The difference isn't huge but it's there.

 

[NFS4]

<< I don't expect them to release any new drivers to dramatically improve the performance of the GF4 as it is at the heart very similar to the GF3 with a few minor modifications... and the GF3 already recieved it's "enhancement" drivers in the Det4's. >>


You'd be surprised. NVIDIA always seems to be pulling something out of their ass

The GF2 GTS was "just a breathed on GF1" and the Det 3 drivers showed some nice improvements that summer. Then a year later, Det 4 drivers did the same.

It only makes since that they'll pull another rabbit out of their hat this year for GF4 with Detonator 5 drivers. Remember, NVIDIA driver teams are working constantly on fresh fuel.

Check Anand's review database:

NVIDIA's Detonator3 Drivers - Teaching an "old" dog new tricks NVIDIA August 14th, 2000 9:00 AM
NVIDIA's Detonator 4 Drivers: Free Performance NVIDIA August 13th, 2001 3:02 AM


See a trend? One year later and just a day apart:Q

Also, what are these NVIDIA bugs?? I've heard of the nv_disp loop, but I've never had it. What are the other ones??

 

[AGodspeed]

See a trend? One year later and just a day apart :Q

Lol, I hadn't noticed that before.

Ummm...NV25 just came out and won't actually be available on store shelves for another month or so. According to the report you mention, R300 will be available just as nVidia's "Fall Refresh" of NV25 comes out. NV30 won't come out until next Spring. Or do I have my numbers wrong here?

You're totally right. I don't know why I was thinking NV30 was this September. I'll edit that part now.

Btw, where'd you read that GeF4 won't be available for another month?

 

[JellyBaby]

<< Make no mistake - nVidia's drivers are still superb but there are more and more minor little glitches that are starting to annoy me. >>

If these are real we should smoke out the little glitches and bring them to Great Justice.

<< where'd you read that GeF4 won't be available for another month? >>

I heard end of Feb. for the Tis except the 4200 which is due in about 8 weeks.

 

[NFS4]

<< If these are real we should smoke out the little glitches and bring them to Great Justice. >>


Haha, I hate "evil doers!!"