Quick Question on Apostrophes

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Izzo

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May 30, 2003
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If you were personalizing a menu, poster, mug, etc for someone whose name ends with S, would you use S', or S's. (think groomsmen gifts)

IIRC, Ross' is grammatically correct, but for an informal print, I think Ross's looks better.

What do you think?
 
G

ghostman

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Jul 12, 2000
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SoulAssassin

SoulAssassin

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Feb 1, 2001
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Are you just putting the person's name on it with the 's to signify ownership? If I were a groomsmen I would prefer to just have my name or initials on it.
 
Uppsala9496

Uppsala9496

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Nov 2, 2001
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Ross'.

Looks normal to me. Then again I type the following phrase all day long at work "including attorneys' fees and total costs incurred".
 
I

Izzo

Senior member
May 30, 2003
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Originally posted by: SoulAssassin
Are you just putting the person's name on it with the 's to signify ownership? If I were a groomsmen I would prefer to just have my name or initials on it.
Click to expand...

It would say Ross's Pub and Grill or something like that. It wouldn't just be a name on an object.
 
I

Izzo

Senior member
May 30, 2003
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Originally posted by: Uppsala9496
Ross'.

Looks normal to me. Then again I type the following phrase all day long at work "including attorneys' fees and total costs incurred".
Click to expand...

From what I've read, attorneys' is correct because it is a plural noun. Since Ross is singular, it should get an 's at the end.
 
I

Izzo

Senior member
May 30, 2003
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Originally posted by: TecHNooB
Its definitely Ross'. Learned that in the 3rd grade, yessir.
Click to expand...

So you don't agree with the second link in Ghostman's post?

There doesn't really seem to be a right or wrong way. So what looks the best?
 
clamum

clamum

Lifer
Feb 13, 2003
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I've always thought it was s' if the noun was plural, and 's if it was not.
 
Kelemvor

Kelemvor

Lifer
May 23, 2002
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The noun has to be plural because of the ending S to just use the '. Since this noun is singular and ends with an S it's proper to use the 's. It's not the last letter that matters, it's if it's a plural noun or not.
 
mugs

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
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Originally posted by: Uppsala9496
Ross'.

Looks normal to me. Then again I type the following phrase all day long at work "including attorneys' fees and total costs incurred".
Click to expand...

The difference between Ross and attorneys is that attorneys is plural. For singular nouns that end in an S, you add apostrophe + s - Ross's. For plural nouns that end in S you just add the apostrophe.

There are differences of opinion on this though.

One school of thought is that the spelling should reflect the typical pronunciation. In this case, "Ross' Pub" sounds stupid.
 
dainthomas

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
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Originally posted by: Izzo
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: TecHNooB
Its definitely Ross'. Learned that in the 3rd grade, yessir.</end quote></div>

So you don't agree with the second link in Ghostman's post?

There doesn't really seem to be a right or wrong way. So what looks the best?</end quote></div></end quote></div>
Click to expand...

My entire life, including college, I've used s' to indicate possession. I've never heard otherwise. A singular Ross would be Ross'. Multiple Rosses would be Rosses' (as in "That is the Rosses' house.")


Originally posted by: mugs
In this case, "Ross' Pub" sounds stupid.
Click to expand...

It's spelled Ross' but pronounced Rosses.

 
SoulAssassin

SoulAssassin

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
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Originally posted by: Izzo
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: SoulAssassin
Are you just putting the person's name on it with the 's to signify ownership? If I were a groomsmen I would prefer to just have my name or initials on it.</end quote></div>

It would say Ross's Pub and Grill or something like that. It wouldn't just be a name on an object.
Click to expand...

Cool...sounds much better. :)

Seems like both are acceptable depending on what rules you follow. Why don't you just ask your friend?
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=69067
 
BoomerD

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
65,615
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We dun bin dealin wit this in my gramma class this semester...
Singular--Ross
Plural--Rosses (as in more than one Ross)
Possessive--Ross's (belonging to Ross)
Plural possessive--Rosses' (Belonging to more than one Ross)
 
MikeyIs4Dcats

MikeyIs4Dcats

Lifer
Nov 5, 2001
18,366
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singular possessive - Ross's (That is Ross's girlfriend)
plural possessive - Ross' (That house belongs to the Ross')
 
Googer

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,576
7
81
Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
singular possessive - Ross's (That is Ross's girlfriend)
plural possessive - Ross' (That house belongs to the Ross')
Click to expand...

First Grade English class:
  • Ross' means more than one Ross. Ross's means it belongs to Ross.
 
Googer

Googer

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
12,576
7
81
Originally posted by: BoomerD
We dun bin dealin wit this in my gramma class this semester...
Singular--Ross
Plural--Rosses (as in more than one Ross)
Possessive--Ross's (belonging to Ross)
Plural possessive--Rosses' (Belonging to more than one Ross)
Click to expand...

Correct.
 
BoomerD

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
65,615
14,000
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http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/possessives.htm

"When a family name (a proper noun) is pluralized, we almost always simply add an "s." So we go to visit the Smiths, the Kennedys, the Grays, etc.When a family name ends in s, x, ch, sh, or z, however, we form the plural by added -es, as in the Marches, the Joneses, the Maddoxes, the Bushes, the Rodriguezes. Do not form a family name plural by using an apostrophe; that device is reserved for creating possessive forms."


http://www.bartleby.com/141/strunk.html#1

"II. ELEMENTARY RULES OF USAGE

Form the possessive singular of nouns with 's.
Follow this rule whatever the final consonant. Thus write,

Charles's friend
Burns's poems
the witch's malice


This is the usage of the United States Government Printing Office and of the Oxford University Press.

Exceptions are the possessives of ancient proper names in -es and -is, the possessive Jesus', and such forms as for conscience' sake, for righteousness' sake. But such forms as Achilles' heel, Moses' laws, Isis' temple are commonly replaced by

the heel of Achilles
the laws of Moses
the temple of Isis "



 
mugs

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: dainthomas
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Izzo
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: TecHNooB
Its definitely Ross'. Learned that in the 3rd grade, yessir.</end quote></div>

So you don't agree with the second link in Ghostman's post?

There doesn't really seem to be a right or wrong way. So what looks the best?</end quote></div></end quote></div></end quote></div>

My entire life, including college, I've used s' to indicate possession. I've never heard otherwise. A singular Ross would be Ross'. Multiple Rosses would be Rosses' (as in "That is the Rosses' house.")
Click to expand...

Yes, well you've been wrong your entire life. ;) As is common in English, the incorrect usage has become so ubiquitous that it has become an acceptable usage. Thus you have never been corrected. It doesn't help that most elementary school teachers are not well-educated and teach a bastardized version of the rule - I too learned it the way you did, but I have since learned the proper usage.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>
Originally posted by: mugs
In this case, "Ross' Pub" sounds stupid.</end quote></div>

It's spelled Ross' but pronounced Rosses.
Click to expand...

That's just silly. Granted, the English language frequently makes little sense. But <G.O.B.>come on!</G.O.B.>

BTW, when you take things out of context they lose their meaning. I said "One school of thought is that the spelling should reflect the typical pronunciation." This is true. And as you point out, the typical pronunciation IS "Rosses." I don't really agree with that school of thought, because the typical pronunciation is usually influenced by people's misunderstanding of the rule. However in this case that school of thought would yield the correct spelling - Ross's.
 
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