Quick dumb question on DDR3

[KyleGates]

Is there any difference between buying a 12GB kit (6x2gb) and two identical 6GB kits (3x2gb) when it comes to DDR3??

Locked since the question's been answered and the thread's been dragged off course.
Sr Moderator allisolm

 

[Denithor]

A 12GB kit is guaranteed to work at the rated speed/timings.

Two 6GB kits installed together may or may not operate at their rated speed/timings.

 

[n7]

Exactly.

This said, i would personally very happily take the risk of buying the two 3x2 GB kits if pricing is better.

If you're less experienced with tweaking with board voltages/RAM timings/vDIMM, it may be the safer bet to get the pre-packaged 12 GB, but keep in mind that's still a lot harder to heavily OC with than with 3x2 GB.

 

[Yellowbeard]

The biggest drawback I can see is that if you cannot get the 2 kits to work together, you have no recourse with the manufacturer which is most are now offering 6 x 2GB kits that have already been tested.

At the time of this posting, our 12GB kits vs 2 x 6GB kits are priced within $5-$10 of each other at Newegg. I'm sure other resellers and brands are similar. So pricing is not a major issue at this time.

 

[taltamir]

I think you might have missed the "identical 6GB kits". as in, the exact same model.
it doesn't really make a difference, in theory it might, but in reality, just save your money, many people run DIFFERENT kits together with no problem. I have a 2x2kit from gskill and a 2x2 kit from patriot, with different timing, and they work fine together.

As for "manufacturer recourse", its called "returns"... just run memtest for a day after buying it, if it doesn't work return for a refund.

 

[Yellowbeard]

Originally posted by: taltamir
I think you might have missed the "identical 6GB kits". as in, the exact same model.
it doesn't really make a difference, in theory it might, but in reality, just save your money, many people run DIFFERENT kits together with no problem.

No, I read it. But there's more to it than simply buying the same "model". Memory does come in different revisions bearing the same model number. And, as far as faking a Memtest result to obtain an RMA, why not just spend an extra $5 or so and get a single 12GB kit? $5 is better than wasting a day running Memtest and then shipping memory back and waiting and Memtesting again......etc.

My primary point for posting this is to give the best advice to a customer. Your statement "
it doesn't really make a difference, in theory it might, but in reality, just save your money, many people run DIFFERENT kits together with no problem. " is very true. Probably 95%+ true for most users. But, if an user goes out and follows your advice and he does have an issue, you are not in a position to offer him a refund or replacement. As a memory company rep, I am offering this OP the best advice that has the fewest risks or caveats involved.

 

[taltamir]

No, I read it. But there's more to it than simply buying the same "model". Memory does come in different revisions bearing the same model number. And, as far as faking a Memtest result to obtain an RMA, why not just spend an extra $5 or so and get a single 12GB kit?

1. I mentioned that in theory it MIGHT be different.
2. why would you need to fake a memetest result to return an item? last i checked fries electronics doesn't ask me for PROOF that it is incompatible before allowing me to return. I told him to do memtest for his own benefit, to verify it works and KEEP IT.

why not just spend an extra $5 or so and get a single 12GB kit

cheapest 12GB kit: 180$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...esult=True&Order=PRICE
cheapest 6GB kit: 75$ (150$ for two).

if you go for 1600mhz instead of 1333mhz:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...ctiveSearchResult=True
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...ctiveSearchResult=True

for 1600mhz, 240$ for 12GB. 85$ for 6GB kit.

for a specific COMPANY the OCZ kit is 240$ for 12GB 1600mhz + shipping. And 100$ - 15$ MIR and free shipping for a 6GB kit.
for corsair 12GB 1600mhz it is 240$ free shipping, and 109$ with free shipping and 20$ Mir for 6GB kit.

So 5$ it is not.

But, if an user goes out and follows your advice and he does have an issue, you are not in a position to offer him a refund or replacement

HAHAHAHAHAHA...

As a memory company rep, I am offering this OP the best advice that has the fewest risks or caveats involved.

Wait... you work for memory companies yet ADMIT that mem companies do bait and switch? (same exact model number, but cheaper components... getting good reviews at first and then cutting costs and quality?)

Anyways if your memories dont match up they will just work at the speed of the slower one unless your MOTHERBOARD has a bug (typically in crap companies boards) which prevents it from doing so, however it can do that for ANY OTHER BOARD.

Also you keep on talking about MANUFACTURERS. people do not buy from manufacturers, they but from RETAILERS or eTailers. And those allow no question asked refunds.

 

[Yellowbeard]

Originally posted by: taltamir

No, I read it. But there's more to it than simply buying the same "model". Memory does come in different revisions bearing the same model number. And, as far as faking a Memtest result to obtain an RMA, why not just spend an extra $5 or so and get a single 12GB kit?

1. I mentioned that in theory it MIGHT be different.
2. why would you need to fake a memetest result to return an item? last i checked fries electronics doesn't ask me for PROOF that it is incompatible before allowing me to return. I told him to do memtest for his own benefit, to verify it works and KEEP IT.

why not just spend an extra $5 or so and get a single 12GB kit

cheapest 12GB kit: 180$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...esult=True&Order=PRICE
cheapest 6GB kit: 75$ (150$ for two).

if you go for 1600mhz instead of 1333mhz:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...ctiveSearchResult=True
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...ctiveSearchResult=True

for 1600mhz, 240$ for 12GB. 85$ for 6GB kit.

for a specific COMPANY the OCZ kit is 240$ for 12GB 1600mhz + shipping. And 100$ - 15$ MIR and free shipping for a 6GB kit.
for corsair 12GB 1600mhz it is 240$ free shipping, and 109$ with free shipping and 20$ Mir for 6GB kit.

So 5$ it is not.

But, if an user goes out and follows your advice and he does have an issue, you are not in a position to offer him a refund or replacement

HAHAHAHAHAHA...

As a memory company rep, I am offering this OP the best advice that has the fewest risks or caveats involved.

Wait... you work for memory companies yet ADMIT that mem companies do bait and switch? (same exact model number, but cheaper components... getting good reviews at first but not matching up?)

Anyways if your memories dont match up they will just work at the speed of the slower one unless your MOTHERBOARD has a bug (typically in crap companies boards) which prevents it from doing so, however it can do that for ANY OTHER BOARD.

Also you keep on talking about MANUFACTURERS. people do not buy from manufacturers, they but from RETAILERS or eTailers. And those allow no question asked refunds.

LOL,.....wow, you have a vivid imagination. The info I have given is for the OPs benefit and in direct response to his question.

You are the one that brought up using Memtest results. So, to extend your argument, an user could state that memory fails Memtest if the memory does not work. That is obvious. However, if an user ends up with 2 perfectly functioning memory kits that won't run together and tried to return one, there's always the restocking fees. If an user approaches tech support and states that he has 2 perfectly functioning memory kits that won't meet spec running 6 up, our only option is to refer him to the MOBO maker. None of these are good options when the OP could just buy a 12GB memory kit.

As for pricing, I'd hope that it is obvious that I am not going to go search out other memory companies pricing and give advice on how to buy them. What I posted is accurate for Corsair memory on sale today at Newegg. I did not include the MIRs and, if you scrutinized my first post as much as you have the rest, you'd realize it was a ballpark estimate. Exact pricing quotes are often useless as quickly as memory pricing changes.

The "bait n switch" accusation is ridiculous and has been hashed out thousands of times. It's simply not true and you cannot find one single case EVER where Corsair has done this or condoned others doing it using our memory.

And, I see cases each week where certain combinations of memory will not run, PERIOD. So, my advice is aimed to try to help the OP avoid something like this for a very small amount of money.

And finally, quite a few memory companies including Corsair sell memory directly off their website. So, users CAN in fact buy from a manufacturer. But, if you wish to play semantics that's fine. It's a pretty weak tactic in lieu any real substance.

 

[KyleGates]

Woah there tigers!!! I was merely asking because it seems rather difficult to find a 12GB kit with a 7 or lower CAS. The only kit(s) I see one Newegg are Geil and OCZ and I aint buying Geil again!! (Had BAD luck with them in the past)

So, no 12GB kits out there with 7 CAS from Crucial? G Skill? Corsair?

 

[Yellowbeard]

I have not seen a 12GB kit yet with CAS7. And since no one is making one (yet) I would assume that there is a logical reason for it but I cannot say what that reason is. I have not tested 6 up at CAS7 so, it may be as simple as the IMC not liking 6 up at CAS7.

As n7 noted way back up the page, you'll probably be just fine mixing 2 identical kits. People do it all the time. But, there is the occasional issue with mixing which is why I always point that out to people.

The debate you are seeing right now has been going back and forth since late 2002 - early 2003 or so when the first dual channel MOBOs came out. That's when memory companies first started offering the the matched and tested kits to avoid compatibility.

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: Denithor
A 12GB kit is guaranteed to work at the rated speed/timings.

Two 6GB kits installed together may or may not operate at their rated speed/timings.

Why wouldnt they if they are the same part number from the same manufacturer?

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: Denithor
A 12GB kit is guaranteed to work at the rated speed/timings.

Two 6GB kits installed together may or may not operate at their rated speed/timings.

Why wouldnt they if they are the same part number from the same manufacturer?

There are likely more reasons than this, but a couple:

-ICs may very well not be the same.
I brought up this exact practice in another recent thread.
Most manufacturers guarantee that you get the same speed with the same timings with the same voltage, etc.
But they can change ICs to completely different chips, change IC revisions, & other things, which makes putting together two "identical" kits problematic.
In this sort of case, the two "identical" kits aren't much more identical than mixing two completely different brands.
Usually the built in SPD timings are the same from these actually non-identical kits, so it's a slightly better scenario than mixing brands, but that's not even the case all the time.

-Binning. Just because they are rated the same doesn't mean they are.
A 6x2 GB kit could actually be higher binned RAM than the 3x2 GB kit with more headroom to compensate for poorer motherboards, etc.

No doubt there are likely other reasons as well that only the RAM makers themselves would know

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: KyleGates
Woah there tigers!!! I was merely asking because it seems rather difficult to find a 12GB kit with a 7 or lower CAS. The only kit(s) I see one Newegg are Geil and OCZ and I aint buying Geil again!! (Had BAD luck with them in the past)

So, no 12GB kits out there with 7 CAS from Crucial? G Skill? Corsair?

be aware that newegg does charge 15% restock fee. so if the rams are not compatible you might have to pay some extra.
But it is a slim risk for a high gain.

The vast majority of time the incompatibility has nothing to do with "non matched kits" and such incompatible ram doesn't work by ITSELF either.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: Yellowbeard
LOL,.....wow, you have a vivid imagination. The info I have given is for the OPs benefit and in direct response to his question.

You are the one that brought up using Memtest results. So, to extend your argument, an user could state that memory fails Memtest if the memory does not work. That is obvious. However, if an user ends up with 2 perfectly functioning memory kits that won't run together and tried to return one, there's always the restocking fees. If an user approaches tech support and states that he has 2 perfectly functioning memory kits that won't meet spec running 6 up, our only option is to refer him to the MOBO maker. None of these are good options when the OP could just buy a 12GB memory kit.

As for pricing, I'd hope that it is obvious that I am not going to go search out other memory companies pricing and give advice on how to buy them. What I posted is accurate for Corsair memory on sale today at Newegg. I did not include the MIRs and, if you scrutinized my first post as much as you have the rest, you'd realize it was a ballpark estimate. Exact pricing quotes are often useless as quickly as memory pricing changes.

The "bait n switch" accusation is ridiculous and has been hashed out thousands of times. It's simply not true and you cannot find one single case EVER where Corsair has done this or condoned others doing it using our memory.

And, I see cases each week where certain combinations of memory will not run, PERIOD. So, my advice is aimed to try to help the OP avoid something like this for a very small amount of money.

And finally, quite a few memory companies including Corsair sell memory directly off their website. So, users CAN in fact buy from a manufacturer. But, if you wish to play semantics that's fine. It's a pretty weak tactic in lieu any real substance.

ill take your word for it for now, I did not specifically said corsair is a company that does bait and switch, I said it seems like YOU were warning him about bait and switch. Maybe if you specifically SAID "Hi I am from corsair and we sell those direct at 5$ apart on our website" i'd have responded differently, mmm?

But the accusation that I have a vivid imagination has no base. Bait and switch is a well known tactic used by a variety of manufacturers over the years. It does not make me a conspiracy nut, and you are being a bit overly defensive about it.

What I want to know is, what do you have against memtest? memtest is an accurate test to see if your memory runs. it is not a thing to "trick" the poor ram companies, it is not about getting refunds. It is a simple procedure to impartially test memory stability at existing configuration to allow the user to know if it has an issue (instead of guessing from the amount of blue screens and corrupt files he has 3 months down the road).
If you just buy it, and it doesn't work, return it for a refund and MAYBE pay a restocking fee depending on place of purchase.
If restocking fees get too high, then stop buying from places with a restocking fee! There are certain components I only buy at frys electronics. Others I will buy online.

 

[taltamir]

you know, your more than odd behaviour about the issue prompted me to do a little search, I simple goggled corsair bait and switch... I found a place where corsair addresses peoples concerns via a little FAQ and answers:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=488673

my "favorite" part is this:

5) You should tell us if you change the IC on a module!

We recognize that a small number of our customers want to buy modules based on a specific IC, and we try to be very upfront with what we use on performance modules. Please be aware that most DIY enthusiasts do not buy based on IC, they buy based on the performance spec.

We do recognize that we could do this more effectively, and are working on a new way to improve the way we get make this data available to our ?professional? grade customers.

Wow... that is pretty insulting to enthusiasts.
This reminds me of sony's claim.

most people don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care?

guess what? we care!