quick comparison 570 sli vs 6870 xf

[digitaldurandal]

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-6850-6870-crossfirex-review/1
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-570-sli-review/1

Because they only let you see at a glance the 1920 numbers - which at this level of GPU is a bit silly. I have taken the time to compare all the 2560x1600 data, and since I was recording it anyways I thought I would share it in an easier to read format (than switching back and forth like I had to.)

570sli = 700$ (+40% cost)
6870xf = 500$

I will be using guru3d results as it is the first sli review out.
game | 6870xf | 570 sli
BFBC2 @2560x1600 8x16x | 61 | 73 (+20%)
COD:MW2 @2560x1600 4x16x | 116 | 165 (+42%)
Dirt2 @2560x1600 8x16x | 91 | 106 (+16%)
Farcry2 @2560x1600 8x16x | 91 |110 (+21%)
Crysis WH @2560x1600 2x | 44 | 62 (+41%)
Metro 2033 @2560x1600 AAA | 22 | 30 (+36%)

Average 425 vs 546 (+28%)

System load 421 (-27%) vs 578w

Temperature 76 (-8%) vs 81

Noise 42 vs 42


For the value it seems the 6870cf series wins, however as I am buying with the intention of using surround gaming. I think I may be justified in spending 40% more for 28% more performance, especially because I think at even higher resolutions the 6870cf may choke due to vram limitations

Obvious conclusion - I should wait for 6950cf performance numbers.

/rant/ However I am finding a lack of patience, 6950cf likely will cost $600, and my prediction is it will basically match the 570 sli or at least come withing 5% of the performance. However I am unsure if 6950 will have over a 1gb vram, which becomes important at 5760x1200.

ATi this is why you should leak more info when your competitor drops a performance bomb - if I knew the 6950 would come with >1gb I would stick it out for the red team. Now I have to flash my bios for SLI support to go green team again.
/rant/

/cliff/
570 sli beats the 6870cf by about 28% but also uses that much more power. Too impatient to wait for 6950, going to buy green products even though it causes some level of inconvenience to me (flashing, reinstalling)

 

[toyota]

6950 will certainly be more than 600 bucks. the 6870 is 240-250 bucks and there is no way the 6950 will only be just 50-60 bucks more.

 

[MrK6]

Thanks for taking the time to post your comparison. To comment on a few of your points:

1) High-end solutions always express diminishing returns, especially in price/performance. There have been very few examples where this is not the case. This can also be exploited by the enthusiast by taking a lower-end part and overclocking it to meet or exceed said performance levels (same diminishing returns, but for free). If you wanted to skew your results even further using this principle, include 6850 CF and overclock everything - the 6850 is a stand out performer for the price.

2) More VRAM will be necessary at higher resolutions, to the point where putting mid-range cards in CF/SLI will no longer be a band-aid solution. These higher-end cards with more VRAM will actually become practical soon, depending on how far you push the IQ.

3) You, I, and the rest of the enthusiast community are a very small percentage of sales to AMD. For all we know, AMD might be trying to push the rest of it's 5xxx stock before releasing the 6xxx series just to increase their revenue, who knows.

Best of luck with your new setup :thumbsup:

 

[digitaldurandal]

Thanks for taking the time to post your comparison. To comment on a few of your points:

1) High-end solutions always express diminishing returns, especially in price/performance. There have been very few examples where this is not the case. This can also be exploited by the enthusiast by taking a lower-end part and overclocking it to meet or exceed said performance levels (same diminishing returns, but for free). If you wanted to skew your results even further using this principle, include 6850 CF and overclock everything - the 6850 is a stand out performer for the price.

2) More VRAM will be necessary at higher resolutions, to the point where putting mid-range cards in CF/SLI will no longer be a band-aid solution. These higher-end cards with more VRAM will actually become practical soon, depending on how far you push the IQ.

3) You, I, and the rest of the enthusiast community are a very small percentage of sales to AMD. For all we know, AMD might be trying to push the rest of it's 5xxx stock before releasing the 6xxx series just to increase their revenue, who knows.

Best of luck with your new setup :thumbsup:

Very nice post BTW.

Like you I do overclock everything and will overclock the 570s I see overclockers was only able to get a 7% overclock but that is ok. I do not like to push my gpus too hard in that department.

I will have to continue the quest of overclocking my i7 920 d0 which is currently sitting at 3.0ghz because the rate of return with a 5870 had all but diminished. Looking for 3.6+ now, probably will not push to 4 although that is common for the chip.

I think you are partially correct that they want 5870 stock to diminish instead of taking losses on it. Although they recently got a huge settlement, I think they lack the same cushion as Nvidia who has sometimes taken quite large cuts on former flagships to push a new one. (see 480 gtx falling below 400) Although admittedly I think the 480s are not exactly flying off the shelves, whereas 5870 still seems quite popular.

In response to the other person I do predict the 6950 to msrp for 299. So here my words are, we shall see who is right. I do think if I am mistaken it will not be by much perhaps 319 as a ceiling, and actually I think the 6870 price will drop a bit instead of the 6950 price raising, AMD is not afraid to cut prices when they're up against a competitive product - last round they really did not have to worry until the 460 1gb was released so things were different. IMO the only good card the green team released last round.

 

[happy medium]

I see overclockers was only able to get a 7% overclock but that is ok.

It looks to me that the gtx 570 will overclock to gtx 580 speeds easily, sometimes without extra voltage. I think they got a bum chip.

 

[Rezist]

yeah as the setup gets higher performance the the worst the performance for dollar gets.
I'd still recommend 6850's x-fired over 6870's because for the minor difference the costs savings is worth it.

you could try a single 570 until they drop some and pick up the second?

Unless a single 570 at this point is a downgrade or something from your current rig.

 

[exar333]

Very nice post BTW.

Like you I do overclock everything and will overclock the 570s I see overclockers was only able to get a 7% overclock but that is ok. I do not like to push my gpus too hard in that department.

I will have to continue the quest of overclocking my i7 920 d0 which is currently sitting at 3.0ghz because the rate of return with a 5870 had all but diminished. Looking for 3.6+ now, probably will not push to 4 although that is common for the chip.

I think you are partially correct that they want 5870 stock to diminish instead of taking losses on it. Although they recently got a huge settlement, I think they lack the same cushion as Nvidia who has sometimes taken quite large cuts on former flagships to push a new one. (see 480 gtx falling below 400) Although admittedly I think the 480s are not exactly flying off the shelves, whereas 5870 still seems quite popular.

In response to the other person I do predict the 6950 to msrp for 299. So here my words are, we shall see who is right. I do think if I am mistaken it will not be by much perhaps 319 as a ceiling, and actually I think the 6870 price will drop a bit instead of the 6950 price raising, AMD is not afraid to cut prices when they're up against a competitive product - last round they really did not have to worry until the 460 1gb was released so things were different. IMO the only good card the green team released last round.

I believe your probably right. I just can't see the price difference between the 6870 and 6950 to be only $50. Something will have to give; either the 6850/6870 will drop in price slightly or the 6950 will be closer to $330-$350 with the 6970 closer to $400 or 450.

The silence from the 69xx release is driving me crazy. I want prices, I want performance numbers!

 

[happy medium]

I believe your probably right. I just can't see the price difference between the 6870 and 6950 to be only $50. Something will have to give; either the 6850/6870 will drop in price slightly or the 6950 will be closer to $330-$350 with the 6970 closer to $400 or 450.

The 6950 will be about 350$. The 6870 is 250$ and the 6930 will fit in at 300$.
Yes, there will be a 6930.

The gtx560 will be about equal to a 6870 and mabe Nvidia will make a gtx 565 to compete with the 6930.

 

[exar333]

The 6950 will be about 350$. The 6870 is 250$ and the 6930 will fit in at 300$.
Yes, there will be a 6930.

What are you thinking the 6970 will be priced at? if the 6950 is $350, it will have to be $400+, right?

 

[happy medium]

What are you thinking the 6970 will be priced at? if the 6950 is $350, it will have to be $400+, right?

It depends on perfromance, 450$ to 550$ is my guess if it performs anywhere near a gtx 580. They are not gonna magicly sell it cheaper just for us consumers.

If all the cards were released today, this is how I see it.

6990, gtx595 about 700$
6970,gtx580 about 500$
6950,gtx570 350$
6930,gtx565 about 300$
6870, gtx560 250$
6850,gtx550 ~200$

Give or take 20/30$

 

[RaistlinZ]

OP, you seriously can't wait a week to see how the 6950 performs in CrossFire? Really?

 

[happy medium]

OP, you seriously can't wait a week to see how the 6950 performs in CrossFire? Really?

WHy wait ,do you really think x fired 6950's are gonna beat a pair of gtx570 in sli by much or at all?
Probrobly about the same price for about the same performance.

 

[Skurge]

Its not just v-ram you need to worry about. AMD cards do much better at higher resolutions than the equivalent nV part, See the 6870 beating the 470 at 2560x1600 and the 5870 closing the gap to the 570 at 2560x1600.

So if the 6950 comes out with 1GB of ram, it could still be faster than the 570 at eyefinity resolutions.

 

[Skurge]

WHy wait ,do you really think x fired 6950's are gonna beat a pair of gtx570 in sli by much or at all?
Probrobly about the same price for about the same performance.

Im willing to bet the gap would open at eyefinity resolutions with the 6950s. The OP wants a surround setup.

 

[happy medium]

Im willing to bet the gap would open at eyefinity resolutions with the 6950s. The OP wants a surround setup.

WHat gap? How much?

 

[Martimus]

I find it interesting that you are unwilling to wait less than one week to save what you feel will be $100 for you think will be equal or better performance to what you are getting, plus it would save you the hassle of trying to flash the MB to support SLI.

I don't think I could justify buying now versus waiting if I felt the same way, but I guess I am not very impulsive.

 

[digitaldurandal]

yeah as the setup gets higher performance the the worst the performance for dollar gets.
I'd still recommend 6850's x-fired over 6870's because for the minor difference the costs savings is worth it.

you could try a single 570 until they drop some and pick up the second?

Unless a single 570 at this point is a downgrade or something from your current rig.

The problem is I couldn't use all 3 monitors that way. Honestly I would prefer a single chip solution for surround gaming. Likely nVidia would have gotten my money sooner with a 580 if it offered 3 monitors on a single gpu. Lucky for me they didnt 200 bucks more for quite a bit more performance.

 

[digitaldurandal]

I find it interesting that you are unwilling to wait less than one week to save what you feel will be $100 for you think will be equal or better performance to what you are getting, plus it would save you the hassle of trying to flash the MB to support SLI.

I don't think I could justify buying now versus waiting if I felt the same way, but I guess I am not very impulsive.

Part of it is I need to get my wife's new PC up and running and she is getting the 5870 in my current rig. I bought a few games for her but the 8800 gts simply won't cut it for black ops.

The 100 dollars is kind of a bet I suppose, if the 6950 is = or greater than the 570 sli I lost . If it is less than the 570 sli then I win . Oh additionally I bank that AMD is too short sighted to give the 6950 greater than 1gb vram, or they make a eyefinity version with 2gb (more than is necessary for its power) and it costs more than a 570. Guess we will see!

Of course the whole idea of getting value from chips at this performance level is a bit far fetched anyways. We all know in 8 months a refresh will have better performance and better temps/power and then in 12 months during black Friday next year 2 mid level chips from both camps will grind their boots into any enthusiast setup or at least come close.

 

[digitaldurandal]

What gap? How much?

I think he is predicting that 6950xf will math the 570 sli but not at the resolutions I will be using it, and essentially I am banking on that exact bet.

Oh actually he is predicting the opposite. I think if you look at scaling, generally SLI tends scale better than crossfire, although the 68xx cards have shown an improvement in that area as evidenced by them beating 5870xf.

However I think the 6950 = 1gb vram and therefor will be memory starved at 5760x1200 2xaa

 

[MrK6]

Very nice post BTW.

Like you I do overclock everything and will overclock the 570s I see overclockers was only able to get a 7% overclock but that is ok. I do not like to push my gpus too hard in that department.

Glad you liked it :thumbsup:. For a 7% overclock I take it you're now at 785MHz? That does seem low. How are your temps? What are you using to test stability?

I will have to continue the quest of overclocking my i7 920 d0 which is currently sitting at 3.0ghz because the rate of return with a 5870 had all but diminished. Looking for 3.6+ now, probably will not push to 4 although that is common for the chip.

Crank that sucker to 4.0GHz, your GTX 570's will use every MHz you get out of it. The current bunch of high-end NVIDIA cards are heavily CPU dependent, especially in SLI. I would have cranked it with the 5870 too. CPU/subsystem clocks are very important for keeping minimum's high when there's a lot going on in games (well, some games, but I digress).

I think you are partially correct that they want 5870 stock to diminish instead of taking losses on it. Although they recently got a huge settlement, I think they lack the same cushion as Nvidia who has sometimes taken quite large cuts on former flagships to push a new one. (see 480 gtx falling below 400) Although admittedly I think the 480s are not exactly flying off the shelves, whereas 5870 still seems quite popular.

In response to the other person I do predict the 6950 to msrp for 299. So here my words are, we shall see who is right. I do think if I am mistaken it will not be by much perhaps 319 as a ceiling, and actually I think the 6870 price will drop a bit instead of the 6950 price raising, AMD is not afraid to cut prices when they're up against a competitive product - last round they really did not have to worry until the 460 1gb was released so things were different. IMO the only good card the green team released last round.

I will be flat out shocked if the 6950 comes in a ~$300. If AMD is having its rumored supply constraints and the card is as fast as some rumors state it is, there's no reason they'll have to price them that low, especially with the revenue they're getting from clearing out the 5xxx cards.

Its not just v-ram you need to worry about. AMD cards do much better at higher resolutions than the equivalent nV part, See the 6870 beating the 470 at 2560x1600 and the 5870 closing the gap to the 570 at 2560x1600.

So if the 6950 comes out with 1GB of ram, it could still be faster than the 570 at eyefinity resolutions.

Very true, but VRAM limitations are any extremely hard wall to hit. I would not choose a 1GB-based CF/SLI setup now; imo it's getting to be that time where at least 1.25GB+ is needed to feed the horsepower a dual card configuration of these high end products can produce. All that said, AMD dominated high resolution gaming all last year, IIRC because of their insane texture fillrates as well as better memory management. Hopefully the 69xx cards share these same traits.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

short

1GB definitely won't cut it on these levels of performance. You can see 2GB with advantages in...

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/806-11/dossier-nvidia-geforce-gtx-580-sli.html
Starcraft 2
Crysis
F1 2010
Metro 2033

There is also another good review of what 2GB brings to the table, but I can't remember the website.