Questions on the Politics, News, and the Opinions or the Day.

[Moonbeam]

A thread on the right winged bias of Fox News got me wondering:

The question, I believe, is why is it that human beings can be propagandized. Is it a form of hypnosis? Why can prisoners be brainwashed into believing the opposite of what the used to believe? Why, since we can see the terrible delusions others suffer, do we not automatically assume that everything we know or feel is not of the same dimension, pure and utter bunk? How is it that we became attached to ideas? Why is it not the task of every aspect of our society to educate each person in every aspect of what it is we do already know about the mind and how it can be influenced? Is it possible to resist and undo any affects propaganda have had on our minds and what would such a person be or look like? How much product would such a person buy and of what kind? What would a society of real people, immune to propaganda look like and who would be the economic winners and losers? What would be their approach to politics?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

What would a society of real people, immune to propaganda look like?

Be pretty darned bright from the glare of all the Tin Foil Hats

 

[piasabird]

Dreaming of a Utopian Society where technology is your God?

Dream on Baby!

 

[cKGunslinger]

Aren't we already approaching a society where we study the psychological effects of propaganda and marketing? Unfortunately, we are using this knowledge for attack, rather than defense. Politicians and marketers spend an inordinate amount of time with focus groups, test studies, polls, etc to try and ascertain how "the public" wil respond to a large variety of ideas, from political stances, to key words and phrases, to colors and smells. Many of us already know about some of these ploys and can recognize them, but you are right; many more don't know and may never. The problem is that even if some people are aware of marketing attempts aimed at them, some simply do not care. It takes a concerted amount of time and effort to try and deduce pure facts from designed propaganda. Many people would rather "believe the hype" and take that as a quick and easy means of 'research.'

As to the consideration of a world free from marketing and propaganda, I cannot easily image what such a place could look like. Would people become more like-minded without external influence? Do we all posses an equal amount of logic and reasoning that would reduce all opinions to a set of similar facts? Or would we become infinitely diverse, due to the uniqueness of each person's mind? Perhaps we would endless disagree on every single piece of datum? Interesting. I simply do not know. But I don't think we have to worry about it anytime soon, either.

 

[alchemize]

A society of real people, immune to propoganda would be Vulcans, devoid of emotion. Or of animals, operating only on instinct.

 

[Runner20]

How is FOX news biased??? usually when I watch them, which is rarely they have guests on both sides.

Even when there isnt a guest from either side the debate between the host and the guest is fair and balanced

You should stop buying into that FOX News is right wing propaganda.

 

[Moonbeam]

cKGunslinger: I simply do not know.

alchemize: A society of real people, immune to propoganda would be Vulcans, devoid of emotion. Or of animals, operating only on instinct.

=======
Which of the above sounds more like the influence of propaganda?

 

[Todd33]

I'll take Vulcan over the irrational, reality TV watching, no book reading, non-critical thinking, religious society we have now.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Runner20
How is FOX news biased??? usually when I watch them, which is rarely they have guests on both sides.

Even when there isnt a guest from either side the debate between the host and the guest is fair and balanced

You should stop buying into that FOX News is right wing propaganda.

Post that in the thread where the claim was made. I was just identifying the thread not making that claim. The only way one would know anything about Fox News bias is if he or she were free of it. Is such a thing possible?

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Runner20
How is FOX news biased??? usually when I watch them, which is rarely they have guests on both sides.

Even when there isnt a guest from either side the debate between the host and the guest is fair and balanced

You should stop buying into that FOX News is right wing propaganda.

Ok then, when you stop blaming sh*t on the "liberal" media, then I will. When I say you, I mean ALLLLL the neocons.

 

[Runner20]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Runner20
How is FOX news biased??? usually when I watch them, which is rarely they have guests on both sides.

Even when there isnt a guest from either side the debate between the host and the guest is fair and balanced

You should stop buying into that FOX News is right wing propaganda.

Ok then, when you stop blaming sh*t on the "liberal" media, then I will. When I say you, I mean ALLLLL the neocons.

I dont blame liberal media. Its just obvious that most newspapers, cable channels and network channels lean to the left, if only slightly.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Todd33
I'll take Vulcan over the irrational, reality TV watching, no book reading, non-critical thinking, religious society we have now.

That's what liberals want. What liberals will get are the animals operating on instinct.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
cKGunslinger: I simply do not know.

alchemize: A society of real people, immune to propoganda would be Vulcans, devoid of emotion. Or of animals, operating only on instinct.

=======
Which of the above sounds more like the influence of propaganda?

Your question does.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Todd33
I'll take Vulcan over the irrational, reality TV watching, no book reading, non-critical thinking, religious society we have now.

Before I choose I want to know what it's like to live on instinct. It could be that the rap on that is propaganda, no? Sounds to me like it just could really make a really wild trip out of eating a banana. And all the neighbors for blocks around would know when I'm having sex.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Runner20

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Runner20
How is FOX news biased??? usually when I watch them, which is rarely they have guests on both sides.

Even when there isnt a guest from either side the debate between the host and the guest is fair and balanced

You should stop buying into that FOX News is right wing propaganda.

Ok then, when you stop blaming sh*t on the "liberal" media, then I will. When I say you, I mean ALLLLL the neocons.

I dont blame liberal media. Its just obvious that most newspapers, cable channels and network channels lean to the left, if only slightly.

No one's going to argue that a few media outlets lean to the left a little bit, of course a few do. But the vast, Vast, VAST majority of news outlets are straight down the middle. They provide the who, what, where, when, why with opinions from both sides of every partisan issue. Do I agree that they need to back off some stories and quit inflating issues for sake of ratings? You damn right I do. This goes for both sides with all issues.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Todd33
I'll take Vulcan over the irrational, reality TV watching, no book reading, non-critical thinking, religious society we have now.

Bah, where's the fun in that? A society of like-minded individuals with unified goals would be extremely boring. Only if you assume that the "goal" of society is to progress towards some end as swiftly as possibly, would you support such an idea. A little back-and-forth is good for us, IMO, and makes life worth living.

 

[Runner20]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Runner20

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Runner20
How is FOX news biased??? usually when I watch them, which is rarely they have guests on both sides.

Even when there isnt a guest from either side the debate between the host and the guest is fair and balanced

You should stop buying into that FOX News is right wing propaganda.

Ok then, when you stop blaming sh*t on the "liberal" media, then I will. When I say you, I mean ALLLLL the neocons.

I dont blame liberal media. Its just obvious that most newspapers, cable channels and network channels lean to the left, if only slightly.

No one's going to argue that a few media outlets lean to the left a little bit, of course a few do. But the vast, Vast, VAST majority of news outlets are straight down the middle. They provide the who, what, where, when, why with opinions from both sides of every partisan issue. Do I agree that they need to back off some stories and quit inflating issues for sake of ratings? You damn right I do. This goes for both sides with all issues.

I still think majority of media is a bit lefty. But where the right wingers pwn is in radio. Who is a successful lefty radio personality??? NOONE
So i guess it kind of evens itself out

 

[Moonbeam]

The issue of the bias of the news media is an object of intense propaganda. How do any of you know that your beliefs aren't all a matter of propaganda. Fox News wasn't even the point of the thread, just a jumping off place. Notice how you all have begun to argue over which propaganda is right? Don't we attack and defend because we are attached to a position. I was suggesting the possibility that our love of our positions is what may be part of what is making us blind. Why would anybody get all excited about educating himself on something, the understanding of which might destroy the object of love? Why can we be brainwashed? Is it because we need something to love? Remember that your response could be the autonomic reaction of brainwashing.

 

[jjzelinski]

Talk radio is popular because it voices all these narrowminded, asinine opinions that wouldn't fly elsewhere but since it does in radio it helps millions of selfrighteous hypocrites feel justified in their misconceptions and self deceptions.

Now that HAS to get "most biased post of the day" award, no?

 

[Spamela]

Originally posted by: Todd33
I'll take Vulcan over the irrational, reality TV watching, no book reading, non-critical thinking, religious society we have now.

you just described where i live, & they're voting for Bush.

 

[zephyrprime]

Why would anybody get all excited about educating himself on something, the understanding of which might destroy the object of love? Why can we be brainwashed? Is it because we need something to love? Remember that your response could be the autonomic reaction of brainwashing.

We prefer love of freedom. Pleasure over power. Sure, if one defied proganda one could set oneself free intellectually but to what end? You would free yourself into the wilderness of ideas and be lost and alone. People want ideas they can easily understand and that consequently provide easy and seemingly feasible solutions to their problems while at the same time providing moral justification to their individual situation in life. That's why the rich, many who were liberal in their youth, are statistically more likely to be conservative because it's a philosphy that let's them enjoy their wealth. The poor will likewise adopt ideas that allow for the redistribution of their wealth.

Now concerning the physchological aspect of propaganda. I believe that the human mind is flexible. It doesn't suffer from the same problem with crashes due to inflexible programming that our digital computers do. But maybe any mind that isn't read-only can allow antithetical ideas to overcome it if sufficient write attempts are performed.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
cKGunslinger: I simply do not know.

alchemize: A society of real people, immune to propoganda would be Vulcans, devoid of emotion. Or of animals, operating only on instinct.

=======
Which of the above sounds more like the influence of propaganda?

Your question does.

Checkmate........Nicely done!

 

[Perknose]

Propaganda preys on our pre-existing prejudices. It sells our own worst impulses to ourselves. It is successful mainly because of our secret complicity. We are played like a cheap guitar, because we like the sound of the music we hear.

You couldn't have convinced enough Germans that the Jews were so bad they needed to be eliminated if they didn't want to believe that. You couldn't have convinced half the electorate, based on his record and the childlike way he is in public, that George Bush should be President if they didn't already want to believe that. Insert your own liberal propaganda example here.

Most propaganda villifies someone or something else, either directly, "Blacks are mud people" or indirectly, "White Power". Propaganda manipulates our pre-existing dark emotions, such as:

Fear
Envy
Fear
Hatred
Fear
Fear
Fear

. . . and so on.

Propaganda works only if you buy into it, and we buy into the propaganda we already want to believe.

W.C Fields said it most succinctly, "You can't cheat an honest man".*














*Ideally, I shouldn't have to explain this, but, just in case. . .

Why do people still fall for the "white van selling hot speakers" scam? Because they are greedy, and willing to do a dishonest deal to save money. The speakers are crap, they actually overpay and so become the one's who are taken. They are successfully cheated because they are willing to be dishonest. An honest man would refuse the deal outright. Hence, "You can't cheat an honest man."

Propaganda works the same insidious way. It identifies and then manipulates our own basest desires.

 

[Caminetto]

Much of one's opinion has to do with ego. People assume that their ideas, the lessons they have learned (acquired largely from those they love and who love them or from which side of the brain is the dominate factor in processing information), are true and good and those who look at things differently are liars and bad. The real truth is that no one can see the complete truth. A proper attitude toward life is a matter of living the truth that you know, attempting to eliminate your ego from the mix in forming opinions, and being open to other ideas.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
cKGunslinger: I simply do not know.

alchemize: A society of real people, immune to propoganda would be Vulcans, devoid of emotion. Or of animals, operating only on instinct.

=======
Which of the above sounds more like the influence of propaganda?

Your question does.

Checkmate........Nicely done!

Corn I didn't bother to ask al what he was talking about because I suspect the question he was referring to wasn't one of the above, and if it were, there were many he may have meant, so far from being checkmated, I saw only an illogical statement. You know that above means at the point of the statement. And besides, if it was such a great checkmate, perhaps you can explain it to me. Being as how I'm asking questions about propaganda I'm obviously uninformed as to how my questions fell into that category. Perhaps you would be good enough to give me a nice logical explanation. I mean, I like a nice turn of phrase, 'Your question does' but I like to also understand the substance. That helps me to be sure I've not been impressed by some jingoism.