question on response time

ChonChon

Banned
Dec 3, 2005
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i have an offer, mind you, a REALLY GOOD offer, on a 25ms response time monitor. im not sure if its worth it. i read something on it that says its unnoticable because of the speed of the page transfers.

"It does matter, but not as much as some would say, at least on modern units. The ones who talk about it are usually comparing to CRT refresh rates, which isn't apples to apples.

A 16ms response time corresponds to a 60hz refresh rate on a CRT, which most would say is the bare minimum acceptable value a CRT should run at. Most like to see at least 75hz (13ms) for gaming. But, LCD's don't refresh. Once a pixel is set, it stays that way until it's told to change. This is different from a CRT where a pixel has to get set every scan, or it blacks out. The time it takes to black out is the maximum refresh period you can run before the screen starts visibly flickering.

Since the screen isn't being refreshed on an LCD, there is no flicker of a screen returning to black then being refreshed. But, there can be a delay for a pixel that does need to change from one screen to the next. If that delay is too long, it won't be changed by the time the next pixel is changing, so you get a blurring effect while everything catches up. Years ago, this was horrendous. You could almost time it with a wristwatch. This is no longer the case.

Your TV runs at a 30hz (33ms) refresh rate. You don't see any flickering because the phosphors on the CRT are more persistent than they are with a typical computer CRT. But, even with this slow refresh and increased persistence, you don't see any flickering or blurring. The human eye isn't fast enough. It has it's own response times. You'll notice with pictures of TV screens, you'll see a bar across the screen in the picture. This is because the camera is fast enough that it sees the part of the picture that hasn't been drawn yet, and is returning to black. So, things are happening. You just can't see them.

So, there are some realities you can use to decide whether 25ms is a bad refresh or not. There are those who'll tell you it's too slow, and those (like me) who'll say you can't see it anyway at that speed. Once you get to a certain point, your own physiology makes any improvement a waste. Keep in mind the better specs cost more, and will cause opinions to shuffle in their direction regardless of reality. For another example of that sort of thing, look objectively and dispassionately at RAID on the desktop.

Never underestimate the power of suggestion."

this is a quote from extremetech.com. is that true enough for me to go along with this purchase and not worry about it. i AM a hardcore gamer, but still according to this, it doesnt matter.

...help?
 

stevty2889

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2003
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I've never had any problems gaming on my LCD's. I have a couple of older Hitatchis's that are 16ms, and a newer 15" thats also 16ms, so I haven't actualy used a 25ms myself, but I've never expirienced any noticable blurring/ghosting.
 

bendixG15

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2001
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I am not a gamer,
but in the days of yore, there were lots of posts from gamers
complaining about how slow 25ms LCDs were......

If you can, try out the LCD on a fast game and see the results for yourself.

Also, you are looking at old technology (25ms) and falling prices in general
so it might not be such a good deal.
 

ChonChon

Banned
Dec 3, 2005
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hmm...i see....

well im a hardcore gamer, which is why im beginning to realize i might need a min. 16ms resp time lcd. however the prices are still high, crap.
 

fire400

Diamond Member
Nov 21, 2005
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I got 8ms, but because it's not a DVI and instead a 15-pin, it still lacks suffieciency to support fast frame rates, graphics on my monitor tares when I play very fast fps games.

get DVI with 16ms and built around 2005, you should be able to eliminate bottlenecks
 

ottothecow

Senior member
Aug 30, 2005
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My DVI 1905FP is rated as 25ms and I havnt had problems gaming (though I also dont have problems with scrolling on websites which I have had with other, smaller monitors that were probably 25ms rated).
 

ChonChon

Banned
Dec 3, 2005
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hmmm...see what i mean with the diff answers....

what im understanding here is....response doesn't matter unless u play every new game which is released (which i do), because the games are more demanding now, then they were back when 25ms lcd's were really all the rage. if this is an accurate asumption, then i cannot get a 25ms 19" lcd and expect good performance for what i do. 16ms minimum.

is this correct?
 

Parkre

Senior member
Jul 31, 2005
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I play HL2 through on a 17" Princeton with 25ms. Never noticed any ghosting
 

ChonChon

Banned
Dec 3, 2005
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got an ACER AL1916W 19" Widescreen LCD Monitor, 1440x900 @ 8ms Response Time...there are no words :D:D