Question on newer cards

[phillyman36]

Ok i play games here and there but not a heavy gamer. I play Command & Conquer every so often and am about to try World in Conflict. My question is for watching movies in high def does/will one card play hd movies better than others? I thought i read somewhere in a magazine that a Radeon hd 3000 series quality wise plays hd movies a little better than the nvidia series.

My specs are

asus P5k E wifi
3 gig corsiar ram
evga 8600 gts
Lg blu ray/hd dvd drive
Samsung 204B monitor

Since i dont need to play the games at a very high res i figure for gameplay everything i mentioned is fine.

 

[BlueAcolyte]

I would go with ATi for HD video. The HD 38XX and 9600GT are about equal to each other in games performance. If you invested in high-end hardware like that, however, I don't think your CPU would have too much of a problem decoding the video either.

 

[SniperDaws]

go with the 9600GT it has enhanced purevideo and imo ATI video quality is poor, Although the ATI 3780 is a little faster at playing World in conflict.

but hey im biased as i just ordered a 9600GT and the only game i play for now is World in Conflict.

 

[Extelleron]

I would take the HD 3870 over a 9600GT, but definately if your budget extends to the 8800GT 512MB, then that's the best option.

 

[trajan2050]

Almost every credible review rates the 9600GT ahead of the 3870 because of superior AA architecture and performance. Nvidia's new video engine is great. So if the price is right go for it. Right after launch prices are generally higher but should settle back quickly.

 

[trajan2050]

Originally posted by: SniperDaws
go with the 9600GT it has enhanced purevideo and imo ATI video quality is poor, Although the ATI 3780 is a little faster at playing World in conflict.

but hey im biased as i just ordered a 9600GT and the only game i play for now is World in Conflict.

That's not what I've seen.

http://www.pcper.com/article.p...522&type=expert&pid=11



NVIDIA continues to dominate in the World in Conflict testing and the 9600 GT continues that trend by besting the AMD 3850 and 3870 by significant margins at both 16x12 and 19x12.

 

[Spicedaddy]

I'd get the ATI 3870.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: trajan2050

Originally posted by: SniperDaws
go with the 9600GT it has enhanced purevideo and imo ATI video quality is poor, Although the ATI 3780 is a little faster at playing World in conflict.

but hey im biased as i just ordered a 9600GT and the only game i play for now is World in Conflict.

That's not what I've seen.

http://www.pcper.com/article.p...522&type=expert&pid=11



NVIDIA continues to dominate in the World in Conflict testing and the 9600 GT continues that trend by besting the AMD 3850 and 3870 by significant margins at both 16x12 and 19x12.

And yet neither are playable. When both cards are below 20 FPS, which one wins isn't very important. If you want to play that game, then the same review shows the HD 3870 is 27% faster in Crysis and it absolutely dominates the 9600GT in Call of Juarez. Both are unplayable in both situations though, so does it matter?

The Anandtech follow-up summarizes performance very clearly here:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3235&p=2

The HD 3870 wins 7 of the 12 benchmarks, the 9600GT wins 5. Performance is pretty close. The only situation where one card has a real gameplay advantage is Oblivion with AA, and that's a stretch - 33FPS is playable in an RPG (The HD 3870 gets 40 FPS vs. 33 for the 9600GT).

I think that either are good choices.

 

[SniperDaws]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: trajan2050

Originally posted by: SniperDaws
go with the 9600GT it has enhanced purevideo and imo ATI video quality is poor, Although the ATI 3780 is a little faster at playing World in conflict.

but hey im biased as i just ordered a 9600GT and the only game i play for now is World in Conflict.

That's not what I've seen.

http://www.pcper.com/article.p...522&type=expert&pid=11



NVIDIA continues to dominate in the World in Conflict testing and the 9600 GT continues that trend by besting the AMD 3850 and 3870 by significant margins at both 16x12 and 19x12.

And yet neither are playable. When both cards are below 20 FPS, which one wins isn't very important. If you want to play that game, then the same review shows the HD 3870 is 27% faster in Crysis and it absolutely dominates the 9600GT in Call of Juarez. Both are unplayable in both situations though, so does it matter?

The Anandtech follow-up summarizes performance very clearly here:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3235&p=2

The HD 3870 wins 7 of the 12 benchmarks, the 9600GT wins 5. Performance is pretty close. The only situation where one card has a real gameplay advantage is Oblivion with AA, and that's a stretch - 33FPS is playable in an RPG (The HD 3870 gets 40 FPS vs. 33 for the 9600GT).

I think that either are good choices.

im not suprised the World in conflict scores are down to 20fps they have the game maxed out and enabled 4x AA and 8x AF, that would cripple the 8800GT and 8800GTX.

ive just benched my 1800XL in World in Conflict

ive got it set at medium with no AA and no AF 1680x1050 and here are my scores.

Min 11
Max 29
Avg 19

and this game runs smooth as silk as long as i stay out of the nuke cloud, infact i was pretty shocked to see how low my fps really is because if i would of took a guess id of said it ran at about 40-50fps.

So the 9600GT can run World in Conflict Maxed out with 4xAA and 8xAF and in DX10 and Vista and still play it faster than my current card which im very happy to hear.

 

[happy medium]

I 'd go for the 9600gt for 177.00$ shipped , also has a rebate for 7 more dollars to make it 170.oo$ shipped.

http://www.clubit.com/product_...il.cfm?itemno=A9630892

 

[trajan2050]

http://www.digit-life.com/arti...3/video/g94-part3.html
The RADEON HD 3850 and even the 3870 cards are defeated

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/...wzLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

Any way you slice it, the BFGTech GeForce 9600 GT OC allows a more enjoyable experience in Crysis compared to the Radeon HD 3850 and Radeon HD 3870

http://www.pcper.com/article.p...522&type=expert&pid=14

First looking at the most pertinent comparison, the 9600 GT can clearly be seen as a superior choice to the AMD Radeon HD 3850 256MB and Radeon HD 3870 512MB.

And many more.

 

[Extelleron]

You're consistantly cherry picking results and not looking at the big picture.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3235&p=2

I'm not saying that either card is superior. I think that the HD 3870 has its advantages and the 9600GT has its advantages. But to say that the 9600GT is a way better choice than the HD 3870 at the same price, which is what you are saying, is simply wrong. The results do not back that statement.

 

[trajan2050]

Performance issues in Quake Wars and Call of Duty 4 give the nod to NVIDIA, especially when you take into account a lower average selling price for the 9600 GT.
However we must recommend based on presently available data, and right now it looks like the GeForce 9600 GT is the better buy.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3235&p=4

from Anandtech,which shows the 3870 in a more favorable light than most of the ten or so reviews i've read, they still lean towards 9600GT
The problem with ATI's offering is the same flawed architecture from the 2900xt. Turn on the AA and it struggles.

So at the stated price point, IMHO I think 9600GT is the better buy.

 

[AzN]

3870 is just better raw performer and 9600gt is better with AA. They are equal footing in terms of performance.

You can't go wrong with either card.

 

[happy medium]

go with the cheaper 9600gt

 

[SniperDaws]

ill let you know how my 9600GT performs on Monday if it turns up, and if its undamaged and the delivery guys havent played football with it.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: happy medium
go with the cheaper 9600gt

The 9600GT is not cheaper than the HD 3870. The 9600GT costs $180, and the HD 3870 $185.

The best deal is still the 8800GT 512MB IMO. You can get a nice OC'd MSI 8800GT with a much better cooler than stock for $199.99 AR. For $20 more than the 9600GT and $15 more than the HD 3870, it's a no brainer.

So I don't really think you need to bother with 9600GT vs HD 3870 at this point. Both are overpriced for the performance they provide. With overclocked 8800GT's being available at $199.99 and the CHEAPEST 9600GT's @ $179.99, the 9600GT is simply a rip off along with the HD 3870 @ $185.

When the 9600GT and HD 3870 settle into around the $150-160 price point, which they eventually should, then I think they become good options. And despite your rampant fanboyism trajan, the HD 3870 is just as fast as a 9600GT most of the time and it is faster in more games than not.

If you would stop reading only what you want to see, you would have seen this:

The 9600 GT's average margin of victory in the games it does well in is so great mainly because of two titles: Quake Wars and Call of Duty 4. The strange thing is that we've seen ATI GPUs do better in both games, only to see performance go down in the last driver update. Quake Wars also recently got updated to the 1.5 patch so it's possible that the new patch also slowed things down for the Radeon HD 3870, but we suspect that both of these performance outliers are driver related and can be remedied. If ATI could achieve performance parity in these two titles that would reduce the 9600 GT's average margin of victory to 8.9%, very close to the 3870's current advantage in the benchmarks it does win.

When Catalyst 8.3 comes out next month, these issues will be solved and performance in those games will improve to previous levels and be very close to the 9600GT. So you're talking about the HD 3870 winning 7 of 12 benchmarks, although neither the HD 3870 or 9600GT will be much faster in most. There are plenty of situations where the 3870 performs much better, even now; in Oblivion, the 3870 is 25% faster without AA and 20% faster w/ AA.

And while R600 has AA problems as you say, these don't seem to come up much in performance vs. 9600GT - the 3870 wins w/ AA enabled in Oblivion and HL2: Ep2. In Episode 2, the 3870 does better vs the 9600GT w/ AA enabled than it does with AA disabled.

Both the 9600GT and HD 3870 are good options; IMO the 3870 is a better option as it wins more benchmarks and in some important games like Crysis and Oblivion.

 

[trajan2050]

I'll take Anandtech, Pc perspective, Hardocp, Digit-life, Elite Bastards etc over your obviously biased opinion any day.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: trajan2050
I'll take Anandtech, Pc perspective, Hardocp, Digit-life, Elite Bastards etc over your obviously biased opinion any day.

I'm the one citing facts, but I'm the one who is biased :disgust:

Tell me how examining the results and concluding that two competing cards in the same price range are both valid options is biased. You can cherry pick your results as you have, and ignore the overall performance comparison. The HD 3870 won 7 out of 12 benchmarks, some by a large amount, and yet you find me concluding it is an equal option to be biased.

There's nothing more I can say to you, because you're just talking nonsense at this point.

 

[trajan2050]

These sites, including the only review you mention, recommend the 9600gt over the 3870. Most of the test sites shows the 9600gt beating the 3870 by larger margins than Anandtech yet even Anandtech still recommends the 9600gt.

http://www.firingsquad.com/har...performance/page16.asp
If you?re a gamer on a budget who craves the best performance in DX9 and DX10 games, the GeForce 9600 GT is the best card on the market right now.

The hits just keep on coming.


http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/...wzLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
BFGTech GeForce 9600 GT OC allows a more enjoyable experience in Crysis compared to the Radeon HD 3850 and Radeon HD 3870.

Clearly many don't agree with your opinion.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: trajan2050
These sites, including the only review you mention, recommend the 9600gt over the 3870. Most of the test sites shows the 9600gt beating the 3870 by larger margins than Anandtech yet even Anandtech still recommends the 9600gt.

http://www.firingsquad.com/har...performance/page16.asp
If you?re a gamer on a budget who craves the best performance in DX9 and DX10 games, the GeForce 9600 GT is the best card on the market right now.

The hits just keep on coming.


http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/...wzLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
BFGTech GeForce 9600 GT OC allows a more enjoyable experience in Crysis compared to the Radeon HD 3850 and Radeon HD 3870.

Clearly many don't agree with your opinion.

And yet Firingsquad's own results don't back up their opinion. In their results, the two are very close in performance, with the only major differences coming in Oblivion and Lost Planet DX9, where the 3870 is ahead by a decent margin, and in HL2: Ep2 & Lost Planet DX10, where the 9600GT is ahead. I do find the HL2 Firingsquad results interesting because Anandtech's testing shows the 3870 to be ahead in Episode 2.

Regardless, Firingsquad's own review seems to contradict their opinion. The 3870 and 9600GT are within 1-2 FPS in virtually every case except in the four I have highlighted, two of which the 3870 won and two of which the 9600GT won. You must remember that a lot of these reviews seem to have the idea that the 3870 is more expensive than the 9600GT and factor that into their opinion; we know this is not true, the two are available for the same price.

As for HardOCP, with their current reputation I don't think quoting them is a very good idea.

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: happy medium
I 'd go for the 9600gt for 177.00$ shipped , also has a rebate for 7 more dollars to make it 170.oo$ shipped.

http://www.clubit.com/product_...il.cfm?itemno=A9630892

The 9600gt IS cheaper......!

That 3870 is 185.00 plus shipping. 190.00 shipped.

So yea its 13 to 20 dollars cheaper.

 

[bryanW1995]

8800gt 512 is great, but it doesn't have some of the htpc-friendly features of 3870 and 9600gt. of those two, 9600gt should oc core better but 3870 should oc mem better with its ddr4. I believe that 3870 idles cooler, however, while 9600gt is cooler under load. It's hard to go wrong with either atm.