Question for those that live outside the United States

[MtnMan]

I understand your issue. In Canada, our socialized medicare covers most things but is lacking in other areas. Ambulances used to be free of charge but now costs around $40 depending. Hospital services have no direct billing to patients but we do pay for it in our taxes. We have tremendous waiting lists for surgeries and ER visits due to this. Certain things aren't covered like semi-private or private rooms. Phone or TV service is extra. Medications are covered only in hospital. Once discharged you are on your own for paying for your medications. Dental services aren't covered. Most blood work is covered but not all tests. Eye exams and services aren't covered.

My Open Heart Surgery back in 2020 and subsequent hospital stay would have probably cost over $500,000 in the USA.

Many hardcore MAGA republicans are older Americans, and they have a socialized medicine card in their wallet (Medicare). Yet they rage about socialized medicine, when Medicare when combined with a purchased supplemental coverage, is actually great coverage. I'll use myself as an example. I pay a monthly premium for the supplemental, quite manageable. My total out-of-pocket for hospitals, doctors, is $266 per year. My total medical bills in 2015 were just shy of $500,000, yet I only paid the $266 plus the monthly premiums. Also, I never pay a co-pay on any medical visit. This year I'm at about $80,000, so my $266 deductible has been met, so everything since has been covered.

Had I still been working, my monthly premiums for healthcare coverage would much higher, combined with a $5,000 to $10,000 deductible, plus there is no $20 - 40 co-pay every time you walked in a doctor's office.

No dental coverage, however part of my wife's retirement from the state provides reasonable dental. Medicare does pay most of the eye exam, but glasses are on me. So I get them through the VA Hospital.

Prescription drugs, under what we call Part D (a plan purchased separately), has a $505 deductible, then co-pays based on which tier the drug is in. Of course, prescription drugs are marked way up in the US, and a lot of people order them from Canadian pharmacies. Next year it is supposed to change so that max out of pocket will be $2,000, plus plan premiums.

So once you hit Medicare age (65), it's pretty manageable, yet these MAGA idiots would shut down Medicare tomorrow if they could because it's "socialized medicine" even though they rely on that very same plan.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

If however you show up at the hospital with something less alarming like just a severe laceration and you are not bleeding out you might have to sit and wait for 10+ hours before you can even see a doctor.

Why even bother going to the hospital? Pour in rubbing alcohol, scream a bit, slap in some antibiotic gel, super glue that shit back together and go on about your day. If you need anything after that, it's serious enough that you won't wait 10 hours in a waiting room.

 

[MtnMan]

Are you saying you prefer EC?

No!

If anyone wants to point out why the EC was put in place, to give a voice to the sparsely populated states, they have their unbalanced clout in the Senate.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I mean, you could, if you wanted to retain some over-representation for thinly-populated states (on the grounds that the country is not truly one single nation, and that different areas have different interests) at least increase the total size of the EC, and then have every state allocate EC voters proportional to the popular vote in the state, rather than winner-takes-all. That would at least fix the problem of minorities within states being effectively politically-erased, which is, as far as I can work out, a separate issue from the uneven distribution of EC votes between states. The winner-takes-all thing seems entirely indefensible, not even the EU is that bad.

Maybe we should split all the states into equivalent population-defined states, could call them districts or something.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

How about splitting California into 10 states? Each with 2 Senators, and each with as many electoral college votes as Oklahoma?

-Only if we gerrymander it so each of the 10 states has at least a 51% liberal vote.

I mean, those would be some weird ass looking states but turnabout is fair play and all.

 

[MtnMan]

If however you show up at the hospital with something less alarming like just a severe laceration and you are not bleeding out you might have to sit and wait for 10+ hours before you can even see a doctor.

Gee, only 10 hours? We have a major hospital, a for-profit hospital, and trauma center. ER, if you're not immediately dying, you are waiting, and waiting, and waiting. 10 hours is about the point many people give up and leave the ER and drive 30 minutes to the next town to their hospital.

Example:
This was an experience about the sad state of care in the ER. This was a letter to the editor from yesterday's paper. I only left off the writers name.

Mishaps at Mission

I am an older almost retired Hospice RN. I have worked for HCA since they took over Mission. I had COVID, fainted and fell down my steps. I called 911 and was taken to Mission Hospital ER. I was by myself with just my cell phone and nightgown on. I sustained a closed head injury.

I was put on a gurney, in a cold room attached to a bathroom. The bathroom and room had not been cleaned. The nurse never asked me what I needed. When I asked him for socks he tossed me the package while I was sitting on the gurney. When I asked for an ice pack for my sore head he tossed a plastic bag of ice to me. He did not assist me to the toilet even though I was a fall risk. I ended up scooping ice out of the bag to suck on using my probably very unclean hand! He never smiled.

I had a large skin tear on my arm, opened to germs and never dressed for seven hours. A gash in my leg was sutured after six hours. I almost left against medical advice but was transferred to a holding room with no window but a comfortable bed and nice travel nurse. I learned almost all the working nurses there are travel nurses.

Finally I was transferred to my room and had a travel nurse who was very good. The second two rooms were clean. How sad for the citizens of Asheville! Do not go to the ER alone if you have a choice!

The argument I often hear against "socialized medicine" is that you have to wait. Bullshit, we have to wait.

My wife needs surgery on her ankle, she had to wait over 6 weeks after the referral to see the surgeon last week. The earliest she can get the surgery is early November.

 

[coldmeat]

As a Canadian it feels like I'm just looking into the future.

 

[sdifox]

No!

If anyone wants to point out why the EC was put in place, to give a voice to the sparsely populated states, they have their unbalanced clout in the Senate.

Ok, your reply was not clear.

 

[Iron Woode]

Many hardcore MAGA republicans are older Americans, and they have a socialized medicine card in their wallet (Medicare). Yet they rage about socialized medicine, when Medicare when combined with a purchased supplemental coverage, is actually great coverage. I'll use myself as an example. I pay a monthly premium for the supplemental, quite manageable. My total out-of-pocket for hospitals, doctors, is $266 per year. My total medical bills in 2015 were just shy of $500,000, yet I only paid the $266 plus the monthly premiums. Also, I never pay a co-pay on any medical visit. This year I'm at about $80,000, so my $266 deductible has been met, so everything since has been covered.

Had I still been working, my monthly premiums for healthcare coverage would much higher, combined with a $5,000 to $10,000 deductible, plus there is no $20 - 40 co-pay every time you walked in a doctor's office.

No dental coverage, however part of my wife's retirement from the state provides reasonable dental. Medicare does pay most of the eye exam, but glasses are on me. So I get them through the VA Hospital.

Prescription drugs, under what we call Part D (a plan purchased separately), has a $505 deductible, then co-pays based on which tier the drug is in. Of course, prescription drugs are marked way up in the US, and a lot of people order them from Canadian pharmacies. Next year it is supposed to change so that max out of pocket will be $2,000, plus plan premiums.

So once you hit Medicare age (65), it's pretty manageable, yet these MAGA idiots would shut down Medicare tomorrow if they could because it's "socialized medicine" even though they rely on that very same plan.

Where I am, if you have a pre-existing eye condition like diabetes, glaucoma or some kind of defect, you are entitled to1 yearly eye exam covered by our medicare.

If you are a low income earner here in Ontario, you may qualify for the Trillium Drug Benefit program. They take your yearly income and calculate a deductible and then split that into 4 payments. That 3 month deductible is used to cover drug costs assuming they cover the drugs in question.

Some people have private insurance for services not covered and others maybe covered from work under labour agreements.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

As a Canadian it feels like I'm just looking into the future.

Because you are. Your social democracy will collapse under the boot of capitalism the same way our's has. We're the stable equilibrium of capitalism; namely, oligarchy.

 

[Rebel_L]

Gee, only 10 hours? We have a major hospital, a for-profit hospital, and trauma center. ER, if you're not immediately dying, you are waiting, and waiting, and waiting. 10 hours is about the point many people give up and leave the ER and drive 30 minutes to the next town to their hospital.

Example:
This was an experience about the sad state of care in the ER. This was a letter to the editor from yesterday's paper. I only left off the writers name.

The argument I often hear against "socialized medicine" is that you have to wait. Bullshit, we have to wait.

My wife needs surgery on her ankle, she had to wait over 6 weeks after the referral to see the surgeon last week. The earliest she can get the surgery is early November.

I can say that the people I know that have experiences with both systems are always amazed at the speed you can get things over on your side. One common thing people comment on is access to something like MRI scans, I think waiting lists here are often 3 months + whereas my sister said they got it done the same day the doctor said they should have one in the states.

I am sure that there is plenty of crappy experiences to be had on your side of the border as well and situations where you have bad wait times. While I am no expert on what kinds of elective surgeries have what wait times here vs there when I talk to friends who needed something like a knee surgery for instance the story I hear is that its well over a year before you can expect anything to happen often people just learn to live their issues until it becomes an emergency situation. Our healthcare system is run different province by province so experiences vary from area to area here as well and others may have better experiences.

 

[Iron Woode]

I can say that the people I know that have experiences with both systems are always amazed at the speed you can get things over on your side. One common thing people comment on is access to something like MRI scans, I think waiting lists here are often 3 months + whereas my sister said they got it done the same day the doctor said they should have one in the states.

I am sure that there is plenty of crappy experiences to be had on your side of the border as well and situations where you have bad wait times. While I am no expert on what kinds of elective surgeries have what wait times here vs there when I talk to friends who needed something like a knee surgery for instance the story I hear is that its well over a year before you can expect anything to happen often people just learn to live their issues until it becomes an emergency situation. Our healthcare system is run different province by province so experiences vary from area to area here as well and others may have better experiences.

I am on an MRI waiting list here in Ontario. The list says 18 months to get one. My Nephrologist was mad about this. He also ordered me a CT Scan and after 3 months I have an appointment at the end of September.

 

[cytg111]

Because you are. Your social democracy will collapse under the boot of capitalism the same way our's has. We're the stable equilibrium of capitalism; namely, oligarchy.

Stable? Social democracies is working just fine in Scandinavia, it's like the left have accepted capitalism and the right have accepted the welfare state and politicians are at present bickering over minute details of the the machinery.

Citizens United is one of those inflection points where the US took a turn that I am super worried you cant come back from. Capitalism run amok in an unstoppable feedback loop.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Stable? Social democracies is working just fine in Scandinavia, it's like the left have accepted capitalism and the right have accepted the welfare state and politicians are at present bickering over minute details of the the machinery.

Citizens United is one of those inflection points where the US took a turn that I am super worried you cant come back from. Capitalism run amok in an unstoppable feedback loop.

Scandinavian countries are not free from the human condition. There is a growing right wing faction in Sweden because the country has accepted lots of refugees.
One of my colleagues, who was born in Italy but is now a swedish citizen, experiences discrimination because she doesn't appear swedish enough. I was really shocked, 1) because I assumed Sweden would be free of prejudices given the country's commitment to equality 2) being from the US, I mostly think of racism/xenophobia in terms of skin color, when one could just as easily discriminate based on other factors. My coworker had short, curly, reddish-brown hair.

Right wing nationalism has taken root in a lot of places, sadly.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Stable? Social democracies is working just fine in Scandinavia, it's like the left have accepted capitalism and the right have accepted the welfare state and politicians are at present bickering over minute details of the the machinery.

Citizens United is one of those inflection points where the US took a turn that I am super worried you cant come back from. Capitalism run amok in an unstoppable feedback loop.

The inflection point was way before Citizens United. 2008 at the very latest, though I'd probably put it at 1992 when the Democrats became a right wing party with Clinton. I strongly doubt your social democracy will survive the next 50 years.

 

[cytg111]

Scandinavian countries are not free from the human condition. There is a growing right wing faction in Sweden because the country has accepted lots of refugees.
One of my colleagues, who was born in Italy but is now a swedish citizen, experiences discrimination because she doesn't appear swedish enough. I was really shocked, 1) because I assumed Sweden would be free of prejudices given the country's commitment to equality 2) being from the US, I mostly think of racism/xenophobia in terms of skin color, when one could just as easily discriminate based on other factors. My coworker had short, curly, reddish-brown hair.

Right wing nationalism has taken root in a lot of places, sadly.

100% true, the point I am making is that the capitalistic beast *can* be tamed.

 

[cytg111]

The inflection point was way before Citizens United. 2008 at the very latest, though I'd probably put it at 1992 when the Democrats became a right wing party with Clinton. I strongly doubt your social democracy will survive the next 50 years.

A bet it is. I bet you one token of honor. We will revisit this thread in 50 years and settle the bet.

I get it, but beyond a force majeure or otherwise extinction level event, I think we're good.

 

[pmv]

Scandinavian countries are not free from the human condition. There is a growing right wing faction in Sweden because the country has accepted lots of refugees.
One of my colleagues, who was born in Italy but is now a swedish citizen, experiences discrimination because she doesn't appear swedish enough. I was really shocked, 1) because I assumed Sweden would be free of prejudices given the country's commitment to equality 2) being from the US, I mostly think of racism/xenophobia in terms of skin color, when one could just as easily discriminate based on other factors. My coworker had short, curly, reddish-brown hair.

Right wing nationalism has taken root in a lot of places, sadly.

It's not solely about a reaction to refugees. Sweden has been slowly dismantling social democracy for a while now.

Sweden’s schools: Milton Friedman’s wet dream

Lisa Pelling explains how ‘freedom of choice’ has wrought a vicious circle of inequality and underperformance.

www.socialeurope.eu

 

[SteveGrabowski]

A bet it is. I bet you one token of honor. We will revisit this thread in 50 years and settle the bet.

I get it, but beyond a force majeure or otherwise extinction level event, I think we're good.

Honestly I'd be surprised if you're even as free as Americans are now in 50 years much less still have a functioning social democracy as global warming brings famine to the global north.

 

[pmv]

-Only if we gerrymander it so each of the 10 states has at least a 51% liberal vote.

I mean, those would be some weird ass looking states but turnabout is fair play and all.

You'd probably end up with a least one formerly-California state that was Republican - but that would be a feature not a bug. It would demonstrate that political minorities are being suppressed by the current system, both liberal ones in conservative states and conservatives in liberal states. And the 10 California-successor-states would between them have 70 EC votes and 20 Senators, compared to the 54 and 2 the super-state currently has.


In fact, why not go further and take full advantage of the seriously-stupid system and split California into 40 states? They'd still each have a larger population than either of the Dakotas, and former-Californian-states would between them then have 80 Senators and 120 EC votes, and thus Californian residents collectively would gain pretty-much complete control of the US government. Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "divide and rule".

I suppose though Texas and all the other states would start chopping themselves up similarly, and you'd end up with "North East Dakota" and "North West Dakota" and "Central Dakota" and "Yet Another Dakota" and "I Can't Believe It's Not Dakota" and so on...

 

[K1052]

and thus Californian residents collectively would gain pretty-much complete control of the US government.

 

[cytg111]

Scandinavian countries are not free from the human condition. There is a growing right wing faction in Sweden because the country has accepted lots of refugees.
One of my colleagues, who was born in Italy but is now a swedish citizen, experiences discrimination because she doesn't appear swedish enough. I was really shocked, 1) because I assumed Sweden would be free of prejudices given the country's commitment to equality 2) being from the US, I mostly think of racism/xenophobia in terms of skin color, when one could just as easily discriminate based on other factors. My coworker had short, curly, reddish-brown hair.

Right wing nationalism has taken root in a lot of places, sadly.

True, it's the natural state of human beings x, y input yields z output. The difference is that people here have an educational level where this simple equation is understood, also at the voting booth. It's not to say that it's a problem that is to be ignored, it is a problem to be solved.. Meanwhile free speech privilege means that there will be populists trying their best to fuck everyone else over for personal gain. I really wish my line of faith and reasoning didnt deny me to do to these people what they really deserve.