Question for those that live outside the United States

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
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I know many that frequent these forums live in other countries.

What is your view of what is going on in the US?
What are your neighbors, friends, co-workers saying?
How is your local media covering the circular firing squad of American politics

How has your views, and those of neighbors, friends, co-workers changed about the US, since Trump was first elected, and since Biden was elected.

Is the US the laughingstock of the world? It would surprise me if we are not.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
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Is the US the laughingstock of the world? It would surprise me if we are not.

Heh. From a UK perspective, I'm gonna have to go with "no". Though you are a contender, I'm afraid you just haven't quite got what it takes to hold that title.
 
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MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
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Heh. From a UK perspective, I'm gonna have to go with "no". Though you are a contender, I'm afraid you just haven't quite got what it takes to hold that title.
That's because in addition to being totally corrupt, the republicans are also mostly incompetent. They are doing the best they can, given their lack of intelligence.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
20,021
7,117
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I know many that frequent these forums live in other countries.

What is your view of what is going on in the US?
What are your neighbors, friends, co-workers saying?
How is your local media covering the circular firing squad of American politics

How has your views, and those of neighbors, friends, co-workers changed about the US, since Trump was first elected, and since Biden was elected.

Is the US the laughingstock of the world? It would surprise me if we are not.
I'm from Denmark, born in 1979 and been raised in an academic family in one of the most privileged areas of Denmark and both my parents have voted for different socialist parties. I did so myself when I was younger but I'm now member of the social liberal party in Denmark. So growing up in a very political interested family, US has always been a topic for discussion. My parents had seen the Vietnam War and Civil rights movement and with view of the American culture as" bigger is always better", your gun laws and lack of social security/public health care, I was not imprinted with an overly positive view of the US society. On the other hand people with political views on the right side in Denmark were generally very positive towards US in the '80-'00.
At young age I mostly thought US to be a bit silly, and the first president I remember is Bush Sr. where I was very fascinated about the Gulf War, but also remember the feeling that something right.
Then came the Clinton years which were good, and the silly republicans used an insane amount of energy on a sexual relationship. This is were we saw the first glimpse of going from the old school hardliners to shrill "moralist" flaunting their double standards without even flinching.
Then Bush Jr. and we were laughing at why you had chosen him.
I think that most Europeans don't really understand how diverse a country US really is. I live in a country with less than 6 mio people and while we joke about country vs city, then we are really similar. So I think at some point I started getting more interested in who "these" Americans really are, that choose to elect such a man.
Then the Obama years and still more and more intrigued about why the republican party got more and more shrill and extreme, and finally resulting in voting for Trump and all that followed.

So my current view is that I really hope that the juridical system still works in US, as I would be very scared if the values and politicians that currently have power in the GOP got the power in US. So no I'm not laughing, maybe too late have we discovered that US can be corrupted and cannot guarantee the safety of our values.

Very few a laughing because it is too serious, but obviously we still find it fascinating and scary in the same way and can shake our heads in disbelief.

I think that politics in many regards are same all over the world, in that regard you get fed up with how things are done. However, the way the Danish parliament works, then most laws are actually backed by a majority of the parties, so we have a tradition of seeking consensus across political differences. So to me that is at least better than the division you are experiencing.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,456
16,776
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I'm from Denmark, born in 1979 and been raised in an academic family in one of the most privileged areas of Denmark and both my parents have voted for different socialist parties. I did so myself when I was younger but I'm now member of the social liberal party in Denmark. So growing up in a very political interested family, US has always been a topic for discussion. My parents had seen the Vietnam War and Civil rights movement and with view of the American culture as" bigger is always better", your gun laws and lack of social security/public health care, I was not imprinted with an overly positive view of the US society. On the other hand people with political views on the right side in Denmark were generally very positive towards US in the '80-'00.
At young age I mostly thought US to be a bit silly, and the first president I remember is Bush Sr. where I was very fascinated about the Gulf War, but also remember the feeling that something right.
Then came the Clinton years which were good, and the silly republicans used an insane amount of energy on a sexual relationship. This is were we saw the first glimpse of going from the old school hardliners to shrill "moralist" flaunting their double standards without even flinching.
Then Bush Jr. and we were laughing at why you had chosen him.
I think that most Europeans don't really understand how diverse a country US really is. I live in a country with less than 6 mio people and while we joke about country vs city, then we are really similar. So I think at some point I started getting more interested in who "these" Americans really are, that choose to elect such a man.
Then the Obama years and still more and more intrigued about why the republican party got more and more shrill and extreme, and finally resulting in voting for Trump and all that followed.

So my current view is that I really hope that the juridical system still works in US, as I would be very scared if the values and politicians that currently have power in the GOP got the power in US. So no I'm not laughing, maybe too late have we discovered that US can be corrupted and cannot guarantee the safety of our values.

Very few a laughing because it is too serious, but obviously we still find it fascinating and scary in the same way and can shake our heads in disbelief.

I think that politics in many regards are same all over the world, in that regard you get fed up with how things are done. However, the way the Danish parliament works, then most laws are actually backed by a majority of the parties, so we have a tradition of seeking consensus across political differences. So to me that is at least better than the division you are experiencing.
I've lived in several parts of the US (as well as Germany) and that's pretty well my feelings too. Republicans would be a bad joke if the situation weren't so serious.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
21,350
16,561
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Brit here: re "laughing stock" - post-Brexit UK says "hold my beer".

As for media coverage, the BBC has 17 pages of article results for that topic, and a quick perusal of the headlines suggests that it's fairly critical of Trump:

I don't have any UK acquaintances who are pro/complimentary of Trump, though I do have one customer who asked how she could access some US-centric resource on the level of Truth Central / infowars / candace owens. I can't remember which one specifically, but I was surprised that she had heard of it (she has no American ties that I'm aware of). I have a handful of customers who I know to be Holocaust deniers, white supremacists etc, plus one customer who asked me what I thought about chemtrails (generally I keep my non-work opinions to myself unless a customer actually asks).
 
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biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
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A few Conservative parties here have imploded in my lifetime for far less than what the Republicans keep pulling. Lawmakers should not be Law Breakers. When they are, they should be made an Example.
The weird thing in Denmark is the amount of "Blue" (non socialist/social liberals) parties we have in Denmark right now are six.
We have:
Conservatives (traditional party over 100 years old)
Venstre "Left" (Liberals, also over 100 years old and traditionally in government with the conservatives, and the Opposition to the Social democrats)
Liberal Alliance (Ultra Liberals, relatively new party)
Danish Peoples Party (Used to be really big, but have crumbled, a very national conservative party)
Danish Democrats (A split from Venstre, because the leader, Inger Støjberg, got convicted as a minister, and disowned by Venstre)
Nye Borgerlige (Far right, and the closest you come to something similar to MAGA, riff-raff of vaccine sceptics, ultra liberals, racists etc.)

And because neither of the parties are really big and there are a lot of personal history they cannot form of alliance or government even if they had the mandates.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
15,142
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one customer who asked me what I thought about chemtrails (generally I keep my non-work opinions to myself unless a customer actually asks).

Someone asked me about chemtrails once (I studied atmospheric physics, once, a lifetime ago) but I had no idea what they were asking about, having never heard of that particular conspiracy theory. I thought they were asking about the effect of condensation nuclei from aircraft contrails (I remember hearing that post-911 when all flights were grounded there was a measurable effect on incident radiation). I'm still not clear what the "chemtrails" twaddle is about (and don't really want to know).
 
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MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
9,442
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Someone asked me about chemtrails once (I studied atmospheric physics, once, a lifetime ago) but I had no idea what they were asking about, having never heard of that particular conspiracy theory. I thought they were asking about the effect of condensation nuclei from aircraft contrails (I remember hearing that post-911 when all flights were grounded there was a measurable effect on incident radiation). I'm still not clear what the "chemtrails" twaddle is about (and don't really want to know).
Ah yes, chemtrails... closely related to the conspiracy theory that the COVID vaccine contains nanobots, and will either allow the government to control your mind, or cause death within two years.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,067
24,397
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My EU citizenship will come in handy if these evil Republicans have their way and start a revenge tour on blue cities and states. I have a couple women interested in marrying me for my EU citizenship if that happens. Ultimately I would target moving to the south of Spain and sell shish kebabs on the beach until I familiarize myself with the area and try to get into real estate selling to ex pats where the language barrier would be no biggie.
 
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SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
9,181
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So my current view is that I really hope that the juridical system still works in US, as I would be very scared if the values and politicians that currently have power in the GOP got the power in US.
:tearsofjoy: :tearsofjoy: :tearsofjoy: :tearsofjoy: :tearsofjoy:

Our rightwing supreme court just makes the rules up as they go along to deliver republicans wins. One supreme court justice, Uncle Thomas, is married to a woman who helped organize the failed coup of January 6th, 2021.
 

Tsinni Dave

Senior member
Mar 1, 2022
559
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I've gotta admit that watching the over the top patriotism leading up to the Iraq war made me want to puke, with the freedom fries crap and any questioning of the official line was treated like treason made me pretty damn skeptical of America, and having to watch the rise of Trumpism has managed to be simultaneously frustrating, stupid and enlightening. I watch some MSNBC if I get a chance a few times a week and I see rational people talking rational things generally, and I see clips of Fox or Newsmax and I have to say it's really stupid pablum for stupid people in a parallel asshole reality generally and it's hard to reconcile that with the America put on show in international relations.
Overall I have to say that America from the outside is...confusing. So many rational, intelligent and profoundly deep thinkers co-existing with the most proudly under-educated, nasty dipshits ever to somehow walk the earth.
 

Drach

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2022
1,384
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Your opinion mirrors mine.Thanks Dave for your opinion. I do appreciate it.
Can we have more responses from non US citizens?
 
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GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
8,439
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My EU citizenship will come in handy if these evil Republicans have their way and start a revenge tour on blue cities and states. I have a couple women interested in marrying me for my EU citizenship if that happens. Ultimately I would target moving to the south of Spain and sell shish kebabs on the beach until I familiarize myself with the area and try to get into real estate selling to ex pats where the language barrier would be no biggie.

-You heard it here first folks, @MrSquished is secretly hoping for a landslide Trump victory in 2024...
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
15,142
10,042
136
A lot of coverage seems to be just eye-rolling at how dumb and crude Trump and the Trumpists are. That seems to be the attitude from the right as much as the left, maybe more so (the underlying attitude from much of the right seems to be that they would overthrow democracy in a much more sophisticated and more cultured way...and anyway they don't really need to as their power is so secure to start with).

Even Boris Johnson was famously caught in a 'sound bite' declaring that Trump was "out of his mind".

Personally I grew up with implausibly-left-wing people who always thought it a given that the US would one day turn fascist, so none of it seems that surprising. It is curious how flawed the formal political structure appears to be, full of potential "exploits". The undemocratic arrogance of the Supreme Court clique is astonishing.

There are plenty of full-on Trump-fans here, though. And I don't think anybody feels in a position to 'point and laugh', given what a farce politics has been here and how catastrophic a state our economy is in.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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I personally think the main problem is lack of welfare. If you have tons of people struggling to make a living, they will fall for the hollow political promises of new jobs (by getting rid of existing immigrant jobs). Help the most common denominator meet his or her basic needs (food, water, health, accommodation, electricity and internet) and suddenly, you get a nation that won't be desperate for any Trump-like politicians promising to make the country great again. I know it's a really hard problem coz few abusers of the system would make it look like the welfare system has failed (drug users for one) but with enough checks in place, it could work. At least, it would be a start.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
33,459
13,082
136
I personally think the main problem is lack of welfare. If you have tons of people struggling to make a living, they will fall for the hollow political promises of new jobs (by getting rid of existing immigrant jobs). Help the most common denominator meet his or her basic needs (food, water, health, accommodation, electricity and internet) and suddenly, you get a nation that won't be desperate for any Trump-like politicians promising to make the country great again. I know it's a really hard problem coz few abusers of the system would make it look like the welfare system has failed (drug users for one) but with enough checks in place, it could work. At least, it would be a start.
Florida already ran that experiment and it's not worth it. Florida spent about 2x as much in drug testing costs as it did in denying payments.


I could have sworn the numbers were much much bigger ($10M spent, 100k denied) but I couldn't find a reference for those numbers
 
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thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
12,065
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It's disappointing to see that the country that first put a person on the moon is now obsessed with pizza parlours, buttery males, and Hunter Biden's laptop :D I blame social media for a slide into Idiocracy territory.

Seriously though, the level of idiocy from the GOP and supreme court makes me wanna cry. Thankfully I don't live there. :p
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
9,442
8,853
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I personally think the main problem is lack of welfare. If you have tons of people struggling to make a living, they will fall for the hollow political promises of new jobs (by getting rid of existing immigrant jobs). Help the most common denominator meet his or her basic needs (food, water, health, accommodation, electricity and internet) and suddenly, you get a nation that won't be desperate for any Trump-like politicians promising to make the country great again. I know it's a really hard problem coz few abusers of the system would make it look like the welfare system has failed (drug users for one) but with enough checks in place, it could work. At least, it would be a start.
It is by design. Minimum wage has not gone up in 14 years. One health care event can literally bankrupt an individual, some pharmaceuticals can cost over $1,000 a month. There is a lot of good healthcare available, but too often the cost of saving your life, is it will cost you your home, your retirement savings, and leave the person in poverty for the rest of their life.

The rich pay virtually no taxes when figured as a percentage of their income.

A person that gets elected to Congress, with very little net worth is a millionaire in their first 2-year term, on a $171,000/year salary, so they quickly fall into the GMFU (Got Mine, Fuck You) bracket. There are 530 in the Congress and Senate, and half of them are millionaires, many worth hundreds of millions. We have the worst politicians' money can buy.
 
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