Question for the engineers and tech geniuses (I'm fascinated by induction and magnetism)

[Arkitech]

For some odd reason I've been thinking a lot about the potential of inductance coupled with solar power. Is it technically possible to generate enough electricity to power a home through solar panels and stepping up the voltage through several induction elements? I really don't have a great deal of knowledge about electrical engineering but I've always wondered if a few hours of sunlight can be channeled into massive inductors (possibly stored in a basement or utility closet like a furnace) can generate enough electricity to provide enough energy (and even heat) to run a modern day home.

Another thought I had is tapping into the Earth's magnetic core to provide perhaps alternate methods of energy, communication and possibly new forms of transportation. Isaac Asimov wrote a series of books called Foundation and in one of those books he talks about using vehicles that utilize the planets natural magnetic properties. Although the book was scifi, Asimov was a physics professor (I think) so he might have been on to something.

Anyone else out there think about possibilities using induction and magnetism?

 

[Gibson486]

Conservation of energy, my friend. Power in must equal power out. If you step up the voltage by a factor of 3, you limit the current from your source by a factor of three and that is under ideal conditions. This has been under investigation (look under free energy) for years. It's even been said that Tesla was able to make a moving vehicle out of magnets, but n oo one has ever seen such a thing.

 

[Howard]

Why inductors?

 

[Gibson486]

Originally posted by: Howard
Why inductors?

Switch mode.....

 

[Arkitech]

Originally posted by: Gibson486
Conservation of energy, my friend. Power in must equal power out. If you step up the voltage by a factor of 3, you limit the current from your source by a factor of three and that is under ideal conditions. This has been under investigation (look under free energy) for years. It's even been said that Tesla was able to make a moving vehicle out of magnets, but n oo one has ever seen such a thing.

Hmm interesting, I never heard of that before (power in must equal power out). Do you know of any decent sites on free energy? Think I'll google that, sounds like interesting reading.

Tesla was amazing, I wonder what he could accomplish if was in his prime and alive today?

 

[PottedMeat]

For the first part I think you mean a flywheel? Over a day excess solar power from panels can be stored in a flywheel underground, which can be released as needed, i dont think they're anywhere near feasible yet - though there are some prototype buses that use the tech. - of course usually done with batteries

You can only get a maximum amount of power that you put in, so if you've got 12V at 1A from a solar panel in full sun, and you use a DC/AC converter at 100% efficiency to get 120V, you can only get .1A out.

 

[Arkitech]

Originally posted by: Howard
Why inductors?

because of their ability to step up or down voltage. However I guess there's no way to do the same with current

 

[Rubycon]

Let's concentrate on getting photo voltaic efficiencies > 75%.

DC power is good for storage. If we need to step it up or transmit it inverters are efficient.

Inductors will NOT work with DC - alone.

 

[Gibson486]

Originally posted by: Rubycon
Let's concentrate on getting photo voltaic efficiencies > 75%.

DC power is good for storage. If we need to step it up or transmit it inverters are efficient.

Inductors will NOT work with DC - alone.

??? inductors will not work with DC at all. under DC, inductors are a short. The only thing the inductors will do in DC is supress current spikes, which in turn will create a voltage spike.

 

[FleshLight]

It is possible but you would either need efficient photo voltaic cells or a fairly large array. Remember that the sun outputs 1366 W/m^2.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Arkitech
Hmm interesting, I never heard of that before (power in must equal power out). Do you know of any decent sites on free energy? Think I'll google that, sounds like interesting reading.

Tesla was amazing, I wonder what he could accomplish if was in his prime and alive today?

But first let me say, you won't find any sources of free energy. If you do, and are able to reproduce it, you'll be the richest person in the world overnight. I imagine that alien species would also come to Earth to seek your expertise in achieving the impossible.

The other part of the problem is storage of that good DC power. Battery technology hasn't followed in step with our appetite for it. Sure we can use lead acid batteries, but they're bulky, and have a limited lifespan. Want more capacity, but less weight? NiMH or Li-ion. You might want to take out another home loan to pay for them though. And if you've got a bank of Li-ions, you'd best hope they're not Sony brand.

 

[Arkitech]

Interesting replies here, you guys are pretty smart. I'm reading a couple of articles right now on magnetic fields, pretty technical stuff.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: Arkitech
Interesting replies here, you guys are pretty smart. I'm reading a couple of articles right now on magnetic fields, pretty technical stuff.

Not everyone here is a guy.

It's amazing what polycrystaline cells with an agressive fresnel will do. They require serious cooling though. Just a few W on a medium voltage panel (48V), diode multiplier can yield a few kV and presto! Maintenance free fence charger.

 

[Kaido]

The answer is yes. I've been reading up on solar panels because I want to put them on a nearby barn when I build my home at some point in the future. The only drawback is that it's very, very expensive to do. Normal panel systems start at $10-$20k, so if you buy all-electric appliances for your home you would need to spend $50k-$100k I'd imagine. My numbers may be off somewhat, but you get the idea. There are a number of people who are doing this now. Personally I want solar with batteries as the primary, city grid as secondary/backup.

Also you can charge the electric company for credit in some states, some of the modern solar homes actually make more electricity than they use. Very useful if you live in a seasonal state that has snow and may not have as much sunlight during the winter season. Also, proper insulation as well as using energy efficient electric appliances can help a great deal.

 

[LordMorpheus]

First, it is possible to run a home entirely on solar power. You need lots of solar panels, and lots of batteries/fuel cells, but it could be done.

It is not, however, economically feasible to do it on a home by home basis. If there are major advances in solar panel efficiency, it may become so.

Second, don't use words like inductance if you don't know anything about it.

Third, solar power is a good choice in developing countries. It's free to run and require little/no infrastructure. There is one group that is working on lighting the third world (light makes cities safer, allows a population to become educated after sundown, etc. etc.), their program bogolight (buy one give one). Their main product is a small flashlight with a solar panel in one side. One one day's charge it'll give good light for 6 or so hours. Two of my roommates are involved so we have piles of the things lying around and I'll speak to their quality. Cool flashlights, might want to check them out: www.bogolight.com

 

[Gibson486]

Originally posted by: LordMorpheus
First, it is possible to run a home entirely on solar power. You need lots of solar panels, and lots of batteries/fuel cells, but it could be done.

It is not, however, economically feasible to do it on a home by home basis. If there are major advances in solar panel efficiency, it may become so.

Second, don't use words like inductance if you don't know anything about it.

Third, solar power is a good choice in developing countries. It's free to run and require little/no infrastructure. There is one group that is working on lighting the third world (light makes cities safer, allows a population to become educated after sundown, etc. etc.), their program bogolight (buy one give one). Their main product is a small flashlight with a solar panel in one side. One one day's charge it'll give good light for 6 or so hours. Two of my roommates are involved so we have piles of the things lying around and I'll speak to their quality. Cool flashlights, might want to check them out: www.bogolight.com

Actually, he talking about magnets....so its kind of hard to not talk about inductors.....

 

[olds]

Is it technically possible for homes to run only on solar power?

Yes.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: LordMorpheus
First, it is possible to run a home entirely on solar power. You need lots of solar panels, and lots of batteries/fuel cells, but it could be done.

It is not, however, economically feasible to do it on a home by home basis. If there are major advances in solar panel efficiency, it may become so.

That's the key right there. Unless you are (1) rich, (2) building a new home, or (3) buying a new home and can somehow work it into the mortgage, it's not really economically feasible unless you want to pull out a special loan that will take a good 10 years to earn back. Here's a neat article where they went electric for just under $20k after rebates:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/solar/house.html

Pay attention to some of the numbers and then ask yourself if it's really worth it. For example, $2,500 for an electric water-heating system. You could buy a pretty nice tankless water heater for that and probably gain similar energy savings. The article says that they make $200 to $300 in energy credits each year, although all of the improvements including solar came to $43,000. Yikes. It's nice to have solar power and battery-backup systems and get energy credits, but you really have to be in a position to be able to do it to make it work for you. Plus solar panels have about a 20 year life, which realistically means they'll start outputting less after 10 years or so.

 

[Kaido]

Bah this is getting me back into the home building mindset. Watch this video about building with ICFs (concrete walls):

http://energywisestructures.com/

You can basically heat and cool your house for about 2/3s less than a typical wood-frame house. Here's my plan for my dream house in a nutshell:

-Insulated concrete walls (laid out by Energy Wise Structures)
-Stone-coated steel roofing (Gerard Roofing)
-Steel beams
-Pella Low-E windows and Jeld-Wen Energy Saver steel doors
-Geothermal heating/cooling system
-Solar panels with battery backup

End result? Durable, super-energy-efficient home. Free electricity and no worrying about power outages! If you watch the video, they do some interesting price calculations that you can apply to solar panel systems. The additional cost to build with concrete foam is about 5%, so if you construction price is $300k then you would have to shell out an additional $15k for a total of $315,000. The mortgage payment on that extra $15,000 is $90 a month, but the insulation saves you $180 of that each month. They use the example, "If EnergyWise came to your door every month to collect $90 and we gave you $180 in return, would you take that deal?" So if you're in a position to be able to build or perhaps work it into your mortgage, energy-efficient alternatives like solar power can even be slightly profitable for you. Add in some energy-efficient hardware like low gallons-per-flush toilets, shower heads with flow rates of less than 2.5-gpm but with the same amount of water pressure that you're used to, compact flourescant lights, high-efficiency washer/dryers, etc., you can really be rolling.