Question for military ATOT'ers about OCS:

[Schadenfreude]

Haven't been around in a while, but I thought I'd post this here - let's get to the point, it's a long post!

I want to join the US Army.
Politics/opinions aside, I have my personal reasons and I want to do it - so let's not go there!

• I am currently 29
• I'm clean - no drugs, violations, etc
• I'm in good shape - active, height/wight proportionate, etc
• I do have a BA in a liberal arts field (philosophy)
• I am married, and my wife understands that I may be away for training but ultimately I want to apply for shared housing/is okay with moving anywhere
• I want to apply for OCS

I've been talking to a recruiter, and they want me to enlist - they're saying that there's too long of a wait to be an officer, it'd be quicker if I enlisted and then went up while in active duty, the review board aren't accepting any applicants for at least a year, etc. Basically, I feel that they're blowing smoke up my ass just so they can get their quota and frankly I know better than just go along with what they say.

So I'm looking things up on my own. And I read one little blurb that says if I'm applying for OCS, I'd have to be no older than 29 but a waiver can be issued.

At this point, I know that due to the economy that the military is "full" and they can be selective in choosing their soldiers - so my questions are:

• Does my age count when I go in front of the review board, or when I step into basic? I've heard that even if I sign, there can be a wait of up to one full year at this time!
• How often does the Army issue an age waiver, and how hard is it to obtain?
• Is there an actual "fast track" enlisted-to-officer program in active duty that I can join?
• I read a random blurb that 70% of the officers in the Army are direct recruits and only 30% promoted from enlisted; would it be harder to get accepted to OCS if I enlist first?
• Is there another resource I can look up/call (I've looked up the army website/other recruiters and plan on giving the ROTC program at my alma mater a call) to obtain more information?

Of course, any other advice would be greatly appreciated!

UPDATE:
Just a quick update:

Went to see the recruiter today, as he sounded like he was going to explain other ways of going "green to gold" - I figured I'd hear him out at the very least, but do my own homework as well.

Well, he still wanted to recommend that I enlist and go from there: I held my ground, and politely thanked him for his time and left. Got a call from him an hour later, and I will be applying for OCS and going in front of the review board on 10/05!

Thanks for all your advice and especially thank you Datalink on taking your time to talk to me!

 

[Dr. Detroit]

If you enlist you will go in as a E-4 as you have a college degree.

Getting seleted for OCS is remote.

Getting through OCS is remote - weed out rae is high.

Your recuriter is a liar - trust nothing he says unless its in writing in your contract when you go to MEPS.

In '93 I entered basic training and had a very high GT score. I was selected to take the SAT exam and if I tested high enough I would have gone to a military academy and became an officer after 3 or 4yrs.

I was beyond sleep deprived for weeks on end and completely exhausted due to the intense physical requirements. I basically slept through the SAT exam as we started at 6am at around week 4 of BT. The worst part of it was my drill instructors hated "the smart guy" so we were given extra detail/physical training after testing to make up for the 4hrs we missed.

The Army has no use for a smart enlisted man in the combat arms field.

 

[TallBill]

If you enlist you will go in as a E-4 as you have a college degree.

Getting seleted for OCS is remote.

Getting through OCS is remote - weed out rae is high.

Your recuriter is a liar - trust nothing he says unless its in writing in your contract when you go to MEPS.

In '93 I entered basic training and had a very high GT score. I was selected to take the SAT exam and if I tested high enough I would have gone to a military academy and became an officer after 3 or 4yrs.

I was beyond sleep deprived for weeks on end and completely exhausted due to the intense physical requirements. I basically slept through the SAT exam as we started at 6am at around week 4 of BT. The worst part of it was my drill instructors hated "the smart guy" so we were given extra detail/physical training after testing to make up for the 4hrs we missed.

The Army has no use for a smart enlisted man in the combat arms field.

Wow, this post is so far from the truth I'm almost doubting your actual military experience.

The Army is chock full of "smart enlisted men" in all MOS's as well as not so smart enlisted men.

Your little SAT story is either complete bullshit or its fucking 17 years old, the Army has changed. The Army is far from perfect, but this program simply doesn't exist.

OCS isn't that tough to get into, it just takes more time. Submit your packet and see what happens, it wont take more than 3-6 months. If you get denied, you can still enlist. There is no rush. But don't plan on going officer after enlisting, that 30 percent number is total bullshit. Just have some balls and tell your recruiter exactly what you want, they'll cut out the sales pitches.

Also, the OCS graduation rate is over 90 percent. The hardest part is remembering the officer's creed, which you can do beforehand.

 

[datalink7]

PM me. I'm currently a Company Commander for a recruiting company, but it's too late for me to hold a conversation. I am headed to bed but I'll answer any questions tomorrow.

I can explain how the whole OCS process works and your chance of getting selected. Additionally, I can share my experience as an Army Officer.

 

[theflyingpig]

Basically, I feel that they're blowing smoke up my ass just so they can get their quota and frankly I know better than just go along with what they say.

They aren't trying to meet any quota. Right now getting people to enlist is as easy as waterboarding innocent, peace loving civilians in gitmo. In fact, some units are looking for reasons to kick people out because they are overstrength. Still, don't trust anything they say. Just state what you want and if they can't or wont give it to you then find something else. Everyone knows this.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Your little SAT story is either complete bullshit or its fucking 17 years old, the Army has changed. The Army is far from perfect, but this program simply doesn't exist.

NO bs Bill - I'm guessing things have changed a lot since '93. My opinion comes from my personal experiences. SAT story is completely factual - I have no need to lie or distort the way things were for me while I was in.

And i stand by my statement of don't trust a damn thing your recuriter says unless its in your MEPS paperwork. All promises are void if not in your contract.

 

[Malak]

Of course, any other advice would be greatly appreciated!

Don't do it.

 

[Yeem]

If you want to extend your penis by the length of a barrel, get into law enforcement. Don't become a soldier. I mean, come on.

Just saying.

 

[keird]

Schadenfreude,

What officer branch are you trying to get in? I'd go with Datalink's info, but I was curious what you're specifically interested in.

 

[Zebo]

Don't go enlisted whatever you do. Dont ever let your recruiter talk you into that shit. Pay is half, people are dumb as in can't balance check books, swim, make bed or know about personnel hygiene...I'm talking Deliverance here dumb and they make as much as you. If you do let him talk you into it, you belong there.

As far as age. OCS used to be 29 1/2 now it's up to 37 with waivers I hear. In other words don't worry about it. Enlisted is 39 except for Rangers, Special Forces, etc but you arnt type A with a philosophy degree so no worries again.

 

[keird]

Don't go enlisted whatever you do. Pay is half, people are dumb as in can't balance check books, swim, make bed or know about personnel hygiene...I'm talking Deliverance here dumb and they make as much as you.

YMMV

I continue to meet some exceptionally intelligent enlisted people.

I'm enlisted and the opportunities for promotion abound but you have to understand the promotion process to succeed. Despite the modest pay of an E-4, I was able to get promoted to Sergeant (E-5) in under 3 years, which is still quite do-able.

http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/militarypaytables/2010WebPayTable34.pdf

 

[lupi]

All the recruiter cares about is if you enlist with him. If all you want to be is an officer, under no circumstance should you enlist or do anything the recruiter wants you to do.

 

[SP33Demon]

Sent you a PM data

 

[ichy]

Check out www.tank-net.org. It's a forum full of military veterans who'd probably be happy to help you out. One thing you can be sure they will tell you is trust NOTHING that a recruiter tells you.

 

[EagleKeeper]

While OCS will have changed considerably from when I went in (plus I was USAF, not USA) only 1/4 of our training group (flight) was prior enlisted (4 of 14). We had females, E1 and E3, and males, E7 & E5.

The "fast-track" did not really exist - it was dependant on their paperwork, test scores and recommendations for supervisors.

I signed my paperwork in Dec under a delayed program to allow me to finish school. However, I was working with the recruiter for 6 months prior to get everything prepared
In May they pulled me from school; an opening showed up earlier than expected and in 3 days I was inprocessing at MPS and on to Lackland.


The recruiter I worked with never tried to bull shit me and there never was talk about being enlisted. I would have turned it down had they done so.

Waivers are issued based on the service need and your qualifications. Having a BA in liberal arts would seem to removed the qualification part. If the officer corp is fairly full, you get your paperwork in before the age deadline. You then may be able to claim a waiver afterwards.

The ROTC will only be of benefit if you want to spend another 2 years at school - that will kill you age requirement though.

I was working and raising a family, so did not participate in the full ROTC program at my school. But I did take the classes as a junior/senior for the educational value. If paid off considerably in OCS classes. (but pissed off some of the upper class trainies in the initial OCS training because I knew what they knew. They had no knowledge of my ROTC background).
It has been close to 40 years, so my memories are slightly faded and jaded; plus the system should have changed some what.

I will be willing to answer other questions if desired, PM to ensure that I am notified.
I would suspect that DataLink7 will have more current info for you; but he is also much younger :hmm:

 

[alfa147x]

How does OCS work for the Amry?

USMC goes this way for me: 6 weeks of OCS between two summers + 6 months of TBS + 6ish months of MOS School

 

[Schadenfreude]

YMMV

I continue to meet some exceptionally intelligent enlisted people.
...
http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/militarypaytables/2010WebPayTable34.pdf

While I have no doubt there's exceptional enlisted personnel in the Army and some of my best buddies are former enlisted soldiers, the stereotype between enlisted and officers is . . . there for a reason (based on my admittedly limited exposure). Also, the pay for an E4 is still $1k less/mo than being O1. I'm trying to keep the well-being/lifestyle of my family in perspective as well, as they'll have to put up with living on-base eventually.

Check out www.tank-net.org. It's a forum full of military veterans who'd probably be happy to help you out. One thing you can be sure they will tell you is trust NOTHING that a recruiter tells you.

Thanks, I'll check it out!

How does OCS work for the Amry?

USMC goes this way for me: 6 weeks of OCS between two summers + 6 months of TBS + 6ish months of MOS School

6 weeks between two summers? You're ROTC, right? I'm already out of school and plan on going in active duty so it'll be a different situation regardless of branch.

Schadenfreude,

What officer branch are you trying to get in? I'd go with Datalink's info, but I was curious what you're specifically interested in.

I'd like to try for intelligence or signal corps.

 

[alfa147x]

While I have no doubt there's exceptional enlisted personnel in the Army and some of my best buddies are former enlisted soldiers, the stereotype between enlisted and officers is . . . there for a reason (based on my admittedly limited exposure). Also, the pay for an E4 is still $1k less/mo than being O1. I'm trying to keep the well-being/lifestyle of my family in perspective as well, as they'll have to put up with living on-base eventually.



Thanks, I'll check it out!



6 weeks between two summers? You're ROTC, right? I'm already out of school and plan on going in active duty so it'll be a different situation regardless of branch.



I'd like to try for intelligence or signal corps.

Lol, no ROTC
Look up USMC PLC program

 

[ichy]

Lol, no ROTC
Look up USMC PLC program

OP might want to read "One Bullet Away: The Making of a Marine Officer" if he's serious about joining the military. It's obviously about the USMC rather than the Army, but it is a pretty good description of what the process is like.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Many O1 had family housing that was a duplex. On our first assignment, we were lucky and wrangled a 4 bd house in the field grade area. (Lt Col on one side, Capt on the other and a Maj ended up across the street) They had run out of junior officer quarters at the base.

Enlisted quarters would be equivalent to a 1 bd apt.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Just a quick update:

Went to see the recruiter today, as he sounded like he was going to explain other ways of going "green to gold" - I figured I'd hear him out at the very least, but do my own homework as well.

Well, he still wanted to recommend that I enlist and go from there: I held my ground, and politely thanked him for his time and left. Got a call from him an hour later, and I will be applying for OCS and going in front of the review board on 10/05!

Thanks for all your advice and especially thank you Datalink on taking your time to talk to me!

 

[Zebo]

YMMV

I continue to meet some exceptionally intelligent enlisted people.

I'm enlisted and the opportunities for promotion abound but you have to understand the promotion process to succeed. Despite the modest pay of an E-4, I was able to get promoted to Sergeant (E-5) in under 3 years, which is still quite do-able.

http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/militarypaytables/2010WebPayTable34.pdf

I apologize for making universal statements. I re read what I wrote and it does sound that way. Sure there are plenty of great minds in enlisted ranks....unfortunately underpaid too....nukes aboard subs..most special forces..and a lot of other fields. But why take half pay and deal with some truck drivers, personnel men, and cooks when you have a degree is all I was saying.

Going enlisted is like a doctor practicing nursing.

 

[datalink7]

Just a quick update:

Went to see the recruiter today, as he sounded like he was going to explain other ways of going "green to gold" - I figured I'd hear him out at the very least, but do my own homework as well.

Well, he still wanted to recommend that I enlist and go from there: I held my ground, and politely thanked him for his time and left. Got a call from him an hour later, and I will be applying for OCS and going in front of the review board on 10/05!

Thanks for all your advice and especially thank you Datalink on taking your time to talk to me!

No problem. Good luck at the board

 

[Nebor]

I went to basic training and OCS 2 years ago. I'm an active duty officer that's just returned from Afghanistan.

As far as I know, OCS is seriously backed up, and it's become extremely selective and difficult as the Army has filled up.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask. I'll answer you tomorrow while I'm sitting at a desk not doing anything.

 

[lupi]

Just a quick update:

Went to see the recruiter today, as he sounded like he was going to explain other ways of going "green to gold" - I figured I'd hear him out at the very least, but do my own homework as well.

Well, he still wanted to recommend that I enlist and go from there: I held my ground, and politely thanked him for his time and left. Got a call from him an hour later, and I will be applying for OCS and going in front of the review board on 10/05!

Thanks for all your advice and especially thank you Datalink on taking your time to talk to me!

Who knew that could/would happen.