question for audiophiles

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: daveymark
sort of like this

You don't want that.

How limited a space are we talking about?

Would something like a mini DVD player and a receiver fit in your situation?

You could get a nice 2.1 system going for under $2000 but the better ones are not going to be small.

A sub built into a receiver/player/amp unit is not going to work very well.

You couldn't shove a sub into a corner of the room or somthing?

Would bookshelf speakers be too big for you?

I'm more concerned about space than quality of sound. But I want the sound to be better than the tinny speakers on the tv, and I want a dvd player. So as compact as I can possibly make it. I don't mind going 2.1 at all

Is what I'm looking for even possible?

 

[PurdueRy]

Heres my tip.

Get a Harman Kardon, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Marantz, or Onkyo receiver and pair it with a nice set of bookshelf speakers such as:

http://www.axiomaudio.com/m3ti_main.html

Then get a nice sub such as the SVS PB10:

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_boxes.htm

For an example of a possible receiver...:

http://www.harmankardon.com/product_det...age=ENG&cat=REC&prod=AVR%20235&sType=C
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/p...ml?compName=PNA_ProductDetailComponent

The Harman Kardon receiver has a feature called VMax, which does exactly what all those HTiB 2 speaker systems try to do. The pioneer has a virtual surround option.

So now you have a nice set of bookshelf speakers, a very nice sub, and a fully expandable 7.1 receiver for:

$ 429
$ 300
$ 323
$1052

Much better than paying $2000, for some crap Bose system

You can of course pick many different receivers, one from onkyo or any of the brands I mentioned at the top will serve you well. And of course there are many other options for bookshelf speakers. There are some nice ones at www.av123.com and many other companies. Feel free to look around, and try to avoid Best Buy and such, few of there speakers are that great and their prices tend to be rediculous.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: daveymark

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: daveymark
sort of like this

You don't want that.

How limited a space are we talking about?

Would something like a mini DVD player and a receiver fit in your situation?

You could get a nice 2.1 system going for under $2000 but the better ones are not going to be small.

A sub built into a receiver/player/amp unit is not going to work very well.

You couldn't shove a sub into a corner of the room or somthing?

Would bookshelf speakers be too big for you?

I'm more concerned about space than quality of sound. But I want the sound to be better than the tinny speakers on the tv, and I want a dvd player. So as compact as I can possibly make it. I don't mind going 2.1 at all

Is what I'm looking for even possible?

To the OP...

Anyone who dismisses BOSE out of hand is incompetant to reccommend ANYTHING. If the price point were out of whack for the PERCEIVED VALUE, no one would buy it.
The facts are this, some people hate BOSE product so much, they will buy inferior, and or more expensive gear simply to satisfy EGO to say "BOSE is CRAP". If BOSE were indeed CRAP, the marketplace would have driven them out years ago when irresponsible desginers and installers were hacking the spaces the BOSE gear earned it's allegedly crummy reputation from.

The criteria are these...
IF, it fits your budget and does what you want it to do, and sounds good enough for you to accomplish the end result (watch the movie, listen to the new group's CD or whatever), the who gives a flying Fvck what some one else thinks???
That's the aural equivalent of asking someone else to sweeten your coffee without tasting it first.

Mr. YoYoTohowsDAJello, with all due respect, after reading the website linked on your BOSE = CRAP links, and after dismissing the various errors, misconceptions, and downright inacurate assements of BOSE speakers contained therein, I am left with but one thought,
Why does anyone put so much energy into combatiing the public perception? The marketplace, while not being technically astute, is always right. Hence the algorithm "The Customer is always right."
Beta > VHS yet which survived? It doesn't matter anymore because DVD > VHS.
100% of all the BOSE HTiB systems I've installed worked right out of the boxes, the manuals are well written and easy for THE CONSUMER to understand and implement and to a person, they all have remarked at how pleased they are with their system. And THAT (pleasure with their unit and USING IT) is the only end result, THIS Sound Engineer (Live and Record), Recording Studio Designer, Builder, Operator, Recording Producer and Musician, Motion Picture Soundtrack Recorder, and current Home Electronics Systems Integrator really cares about.
This "Brand HatinG" nonsense makes as much sense as saying a Lexus is the "Best" automobile ever.
The best one is the one that gets you to your task and home again with a minimum of hassle.

I've mixed on BOSE Speakers, I've mixed on Clair Brothers, I've mixed on Shure Vocal Master Columns (34 of them in fact, bi-amped, in a steel soccor arena,) Hell, I've mixed over the phone and NOT ONE PERSON EVER came up and said "it sounded great (or Crappy) because of the gear. It is more about feeling than anyone ever gives credit for. Marketing provides some of that and "salemanship" another component, yet in the end, it remains a personal experience that no one can put a number or name to.

Alien's Rules Of Rock and The Way Life IS

#473, in the continuing series,

Are they (the audience, the customers, the clients, the people who are funding the event) smiling , laughing enjoying themselves, engrosssed in the event, dancing or in some other way NOT PAYING ATTENTION to the gear?
If YES, then mission accomplished. If NO, Then YOU didn't get it done RIGHT. Please revisit the Algorithim mentioned above. Repeat until understood. Wheel Oil Beef Hooked ......

 

[Baked]

It's called BOSE.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: daveymark

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: daveymark
sort of like this

You don't want that.

How limited a space are we talking about?

Would something like a mini DVD player and a receiver fit in your situation?

You could get a nice 2.1 system going for under $2000 but the better ones are not going to be small.

A sub built into a receiver/player/amp unit is not going to work very well.

You couldn't shove a sub into a corner of the room or somthing?

Would bookshelf speakers be too big for you?

I'm more concerned about space than quality of sound. But I want the sound to be better than the tinny speakers on the tv, and I want a dvd player. So as compact as I can possibly make it. I don't mind going 2.1 at all

Is what I'm looking for even possible?

To the OP...

Anyone who dismisses BOSE out of hand is incompetant to reccommend ANYTHING. If the price point were out of whack for the PERCEIVED VALUE, no one would buy it.
The facts are this, some people hate BOSE product so much, they will buy inferior, and or more expensive gear simply to satisfy EGO to say "BOSE is CRAP". If BOSE were indeed CRAP, the marketplace would have driven them out years ago when irresponsible desginers and installers were hacking the spaces the BOSE gear earned it's allegedly crummy reputation from.

The criteria are these...
IF, it fits your budget and does what you want it to do, and sounds good enough for you to accomplish the end result (watch the movie, listen to the new group's CD or whatever), the who gives a flying Fvck what some one else thinks???
That's the aural equivalent of asking someone else to sweeten your coffee without tasting it first.

Mr. YoYoTohowsDAJello, with all due respect, after reading the website linked on your BOSE = CRAP links, and after dismissing the various errors, misconceptions, and downright inacurate assements of BOSE speakers contained therein, I am left with but one thought,
Why does anyone put so much energy into combatiing the public perception? The marketplace, while not being technically astute, is always right. Hence the algorithm "The Customer is always right."
Beta > VHS yet which survived? It doesn't matter anymore because DVD > VHS.
100% of all the BOSE HTiB systems I've installed worked right out of the boxes, the manuals are well written and easy for THE CONSUMER to understand and implement and to a person, they all have remarked at how pleased they are with their system. And THAT (pleasure with their unit and USING IT) is the only end result, THIS Sound Engineer (Live and Record), Recording Studio Designer, Builder, Operator, Recording Producer and Musician, Motion Picture Soundtrack Recorder, and current Home Electronics Systems Integrator really cares about.
This "Brand HatinG" nonsense makes as much sense as saying a Lexus is the "Best" automobile ever.
The best one is the one that gets you to your task and home again with a minimum of hassle.

I've mixed on BOSE Speakers, I've mixed on Clair Brothers, I've mixed on Shure Vocal Master Columns (34 of them in fact, bi-amped, in a steel soccor arena,) Hell, I've mixed over the phone and NOT ONE PERSON EVER came up and said "it sounded great (or Crappy) because of the gear. It is more about feeling than anyone ever gives credit for. Marketing provides some of that and "salemanship" another component, yet in the end, it remains a personal experience that no one can put a number or name to.

Alien's Rules Of Rock and The Way Life IS

#473, in the continuing series,

Are they (the audience, the customers, the clients, the people who are funding the event) smiling , laughing enjoying themselves, engrosssed in the event, dancing or in some other way NOT PAYING ATTENTION to the gear?
If YES, then mission accomplished. If NO, Then YOU didn't get it done RIGHT. Please revisit the Algorithim mentioned above. Repeat until understood. Wheel Oil Beef Hooked ......

I agree with some things you said, but I believe you are ignoring other facts. This guy just said he wanted sound quality. Frankly, a plastic box 2" cone cannot deliver sound quality. The physics simply will not allow it.

Sure the consumer is happy after they have purchased BOSE. I would argue that most people buy BOSE because they do not know that better exists, especially for their money. When people make a large purchase, they become defensive over it and will convince themselves it was the best purchase they have ever made, whether it is or not.

While people may be satisfied with the sound they get from BOSE, and as you say "What else matters". I will tell you what else matters, VALUE. I would much rather purchase a system that gets me the same performance for $1000 less and use that money to make myself even happier buying a TV, or taking a much needed vacation. If there is better out there for a cheaper price why not buy that instead?

Bose may be easier to hook up. But I think any person capable of signing up for a internet forums such as this and posting a question is fully capable of hooking 2 speakers and a DVD player up to a receiver.

Sure, if my grandma came up to me and wanted to hook something up herself, I might recmommend the 2.1 Sony/Bose/Denon systems that are out there, but this is not that case. This man wants the BEST for his money and also the BEST value. That is what he asked and this is what we are providing. And you know what, I bet you he will be even happier with one of the suggestions I provided above. Not only is it expandable and not proprietary, but it is of much higher quality than the BOSE 3-2-1 systems. If you want to argue that I suggest you take your arguments elsewhere. I don't care if you have mixed on a million different speakers, if you can't hear a difference than you don't deserve to be degrading someone elses opinion when the OP asks for "audiophiles".

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: daveymark

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: daveymark
sort of like this

You don't want that.

How limited a space are we talking about?

Would something like a mini DVD player and a receiver fit in your situation?

You could get a nice 2.1 system going for under $2000 but the better ones are not going to be small.

A sub built into a receiver/player/amp unit is not going to work very well.

You couldn't shove a sub into a corner of the room or somthing?

Would bookshelf speakers be too big for you?

I'm more concerned about space than quality of sound. But I want the sound to be better than the tinny speakers on the tv, and I want a dvd player. So as compact as I can possibly make it. I don't mind going 2.1 at all

Is what I'm looking for even possible?

To the OP...

Anyone who dismisses BOSE out of hand is incompetant to reccommend ANYTHING. If the price point were out of whack for the PERCEIVED VALUE, no one would buy it.
The facts are this, some people hate BOSE product so much, they will buy inferior, and or more expensive gear simply to satisfy EGO to say "BOSE is CRAP". If BOSE were indeed CRAP, the marketplace would have driven them out years ago when irresponsible desginers and installers were hacking the spaces the BOSE gear earned it's allegedly crummy reputation from.

The criteria are these...
IF, it fits your budget and does what you want it to do, and sounds good enough for you to accomplish the end result (watch the movie, listen to the new group's CD or whatever), the who gives a flying Fvck what some one else thinks???
That's the aural equivalent of asking someone else to sweeten your coffee without tasting it first.

Mr. YoYoTohowsDAJello, with all due respect, after reading the website linked on your BOSE = CRAP links, and after dismissing the various errors, misconceptions, and downright inacurate assements of BOSE speakers contained therein, I am left with but one thought,
Why does anyone put so much energy into combatiing the public perception? The marketplace, while not being technically astute, is always right. Hence the algorithm "The Customer is always right."
Beta > VHS yet which survived? It doesn't matter anymore because DVD > VHS.
100% of all the BOSE HTiB systems I've installed worked right out of the boxes, the manuals are well written and easy for THE CONSUMER to understand and implement and to a person, they all have remarked at how pleased they are with their system. And THAT (pleasure with their unit and USING IT) is the only end result, THIS Sound Engineer (Live and Record), Recording Studio Designer, Builder, Operator, Recording Producer and Musician, Motion Picture Soundtrack Recorder, and current Home Electronics Systems Integrator really cares about.
This "Brand HatinG" nonsense makes as much sense as saying a Lexus is the "Best" automobile ever.
The best one is the one that gets you to your task and home again with a minimum of hassle.

I've mixed on BOSE Speakers, I've mixed on Clair Brothers, I've mixed on Shure Vocal Master Columns (34 of them in fact, bi-amped, in a steel soccor arena,) Hell, I've mixed over the phone and NOT ONE PERSON EVER came up and said "it sounded great (or Crappy) because of the gear. It is more about feeling than anyone ever gives credit for. Marketing provides some of that and "salemanship" another component, yet in the end, it remains a personal experience that no one can put a number or name to.

Alien's Rules Of Rock and The Way Life IS

#473, in the continuing series,

Are they (the audience, the customers, the clients, the people who are funding the event) smiling , laughing enjoying themselves, engrosssed in the event, dancing or in some other way NOT PAYING ATTENTION to the gear?
If YES, then mission accomplished. If NO, Then YOU didn't get it done RIGHT. Please revisit the Algorithim mentioned above. Repeat until understood. Wheel Oil Beef Hooked ......

So you're saying people that buy stuff other than bose do so in order to satisfy their ego?

What kind of stuff are you comparing here that's more expensive but inferior?

Ok... it's easy to hook up.
That's nice... but a 2.1 standard HT system isn't rocket science.

My "Bose = Crap" is short and to the point. If our signature length wasn't 255 characters and I wanted to write out something longer I'd say it overpriced and much of it's image is based on past success (901s) and a whole lot of advertising and marketing.

I think I am qualified to recommend some systems in the OP's pricerange that would offer better sound and value than the bose 3-2-1 set offers.

If you want to keep buying bose systems and they sound good to you, then go right ahead. It's all about what sounds good to you individually but I think there's better value out there.

"dismissing the various errors, misconceptions, and downright inacurate assements"
examples?

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

So you're saying people that buy stuff other than bose do so in order to satisfy their ego?

What kind of stuff are you comparing here that's more expensive but inferior?

Ok... it's easy to hook up.
That's nice... but a 2.1 standard HT system isn't rocket science.

My "Bose = Crap" is short and to the point. If our signature length wasn't 255 characters and I wanted to write out something longer I'd say it overpriced and much of it's image is based on past success (901s) and a whole lot of advertising and marketing.

I think I am qualified to recommend some systems in the OP's pricerange that would offer better sound and value than the bose 3-2-1 set offers.

If you want to keep buying bose systems and they sound good to you, then go right ahead. It's all about what sounds good to you individually but I think there's better value out there.

"dismissing the various errors, misconceptions, and downright inacurate assements"
examples?

He :heart: BOSE
We don't

Thats the error, misconception, and downright inaccurate statements.

I believe I gave plenty of backup for my opinion in my previous two posts and made some great suggestions for possible systems for the OP that would work much better. If you can find any errors in what I said, as Jello said, "examples"?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

daveymark, if you really want a 5.1 experience, you can still get it in a small package.

Would it work in your situation to wall mount some speakers?

Some examples of small speakers you could wall mount to get out of the way:

HSU Ventriloquist VT-12 with an HSU sub bundle

Klipsch Quintet

You could power them with a smaller digital receiver like a Panasonic XR55 and a mini DVD player like I linked to earlier.

Also, before you get too in depth here... would headphones be a possibility? You could get a headphone amp and a quality pair of headphones for a fraction of this price that would blow all these options away for size and quality.

 

[daveymark]

I don't really care what the name brand is. I just want something that sounds better than the TV speakers, in as compact a unit as possible, with a dvd player included. I only linked to the bose because that is the first thing I could find to help explain what I was looking for, because it seemed as though no one could figure out what I wanted.

Obviously if I didn't have the space restraints, I would have all sorts of choices with a subwoofer, speakers, and a reciever, and a dvd player. But then we're talking about 5 or more pieces of equipment, not to mention wall outlets and wires.

I care about space more than quality, and I'm sure the bose would sound better than my tv speakers. OTOH, I don't care if it's a bose or not, all I want is something compact. The bose is the first (and only) thing that I can find so far.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: daveymark
I don't really care what the name brand is. I just want something that sounds better than the TV speakers, in as compact a unit as possible, with a dvd player included. I only linked to the bose because that is the first thing I could find to help explain what I was looking for, because it seemed as though no one could figure out what I wanted.

Obviously if I didn't have the space restraints, I would have all sorts of choices with a subwoofer, speakers, and a reciever, and a dvd player. But then we're talking about 5 or more pieces of equipment, not to mention wall outlets and wires.

I care about space more than quality, and I'm sure the bose would sound better than my tv speakers. OTOH, I don't care if it's a bose or not, all I want is something compact. The bose is the first (and only) thing that I can find so far.

Then take a looks at the HSU set Jello recommended above, I think you will find that would be a great option. I would buy a seperate DVD player just because you will get a much better unit. If you get the Panasonic amp, it won't put out too much heat that you could probably even stack the DVD player on top of it with any worry.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: daveymark
I don't really care what the name brand is. I just want something that sounds better than the TV speakers, in as compact a unit as possible, with a dvd player included. I only linked to the bose because that is the first thing I could find to help explain what I was looking for, because it seemed as though no one could figure out what I wanted.

Obviously if I didn't have the space restraints, I would have all sorts of choices with a subwoofer, speakers, and a reciever, and a dvd player. But then we're talking about 5 or more pieces of equipment, not to mention wall outlets and wires.

I care about space more than quality, and I'm sure the bose would sound better than my tv speakers. OTOH, I don't care if it's a bose or not, all I want is something compact. The bose is the first (and only) thing that I can find so far.

If you check out the bose unit and it really has what you want, then go for it. Being really small is the best thing bose has going for it imo.

Monitor Audio is another brand to look at for speakers. I demo-ed some and didn't like the sound personally, but it's another nice option for you.

 

[jamesbond007]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
daveymark, if you really want a 5.1 experience, you can still get it in a small package.

Would it work in your situation to wall mount some speakers?

Some examples of small speakers you could wall mount to get out of the way:

HSU Ventriloquist VT-12 with an HSU sub bundle

Klipsch Quintet

You could power them with a smaller digital receiver like a Panasonic XR55 and a mini DVD player like I linked to earlier.

Also, before you get too in depth here... would headphones be a possibility? You could get a headphone amp and a quality pair of headphones for a fraction of this price that would blow all these options away for size and quality.

:thumbsup:

Pair that set of Klipsch with a mid-range Yamaha or Denon receiver and you can assure yourself that you will save space and treat your ears at the same time. Don't buy into Bose's gimmicks...I personally dislike the sound quality. This way, you are spending about as much if you were to buy Bose junk, but instead, you get something that sounds 10x better...though it is subjective, I'm sure many will back me up on that one. 😉

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

AlienCraft, could you go over the error examples again?

 

[nsafreak]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
AlienCraft, could you go over the error examples again?

He's not going to go over them because there aren't any. I've read through your article and I sure don't see any myself. Sure I'm not some "sound engineer" but I do know what I prefer in terms of sound quality. I've listened to Bose, Klipsch, Infinity, Paradigm, Bang & Olfsen, Nohr, and several other manufacturers speakers. And of all of the various speakers that I have listened to I have liked Bose the least. Sure they don't have terrible sound but the price you pay for Bose is not equivalent to the sound quality you get out of other brands.

To the Op:

I would definitely go with what Jello has recommended as it is indeed a very nice setup. I've grown to admire Hsu Research subwoofers even though I own a Paradigm myself. The Klipsch Quintets are also of outstanding sound quality. Btw just how small of a space are we talking about here? It almost sounds like you're putting this in a space as restrictive as a bedroom.

 

[James3shin]

Those Klipsch are pretty good :thumbsup:

 

[Nohr]

Originally posted by: nsafreak
I've listened to Bose, Klipsch, Infinity, Paradigm, Bang & Olfsen, Nohr, and several other manufacturers speakers.

Where can I audition a set of Nohrs? :laugh:

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: nsafreak

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
AlienCraft, could you go over the error examples again?

He's not going to go over them because there aren't any. I've read through your article and I sure don't see any myself. Sure I'm not some "sound engineer" but I do know what I prefer in terms of sound quality. I've listened to Bose, Klipsch, Infinity, Paradigm, Bang & Olfsen, Nohr, and several other manufacturers speakers. And of all of the various speakers that I have listened to I have liked Bose the least. Sure they don't have terrible sound but the price you pay for Bose is not equivalent to the sound quality you get out of other brands.

To the Op:

I would definitely go with what Jello has recommended as it is indeed a very nice setup. I've grown to admire Hsu Research subwoofers even though I own a Paradigm myself. The Klipsch Quintets are also of outstanding sound quality. Btw just how small of a space are we talking about here? It almost sounds like you're putting this in a space as restrictive as a bedroom.

yep,
that's pretty much the space, about the size of the bedroom.

Does anyone have any idea as to something like the bose I linked?