Currently my main PC has a P4C 3gig (machine in my rig). I think its time to upgrade one of my secondary machines now. While in general I know the AMD64 is a great chip how does it handle running SETI while doing other stuff. Particularly games. For instance, with the HT on my P4 I can leave SETI running no matter what I am doing. How about you A64 owners. Anybody do that on those? I am trying to decide between getting another P4 or getting an AMD this time.
Question for AMD 64 owners that run SETI
- Thread starter Alptraum
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mechBgon
Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
- Oct 31, 1999
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If you have WinXP (proper hyperthreading support), your P4C is going to be the best bet for volume production of WUs. The gap has narrowed but it still pulls out a lead with Hyperthreading.
Having said that, you seem to expect that other systems don't run well with S@H going. There is no noticable impact on an AthlonXP system, I can vouch for that: stats. I do own an A64, but I don't run S@H on it at this time... those are from my nForce2 rig.
Bigger picture: SETI@Home is almost over. With the experience gained, Berkeley is readying the Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing (BOINC) and we can look forward to new projects in BOINC, probably including S@H 2. mechBgon's DC FAQs
edit: actually, based on Duvie's research, I'd speculate that your gaming performance will be lower on the P4C, because it tries too hard to be "fair" to the background S@H process when it should be focusing on delivering all the gaming performance it can. In light of that, if you want pure gaming performance, either shut down S@H while gaming on the P4C, or go with the A64, which is already a strong gamer and will not try to be two processors at once.
Having said that, you seem to expect that other systems don't run well with S@H going. There is no noticable impact on an AthlonXP system, I can vouch for that: stats. I do own an A64, but I don't run S@H on it at this time... those are from my nForce2 rig.
Bigger picture: SETI@Home is almost over. With the experience gained, Berkeley is readying the Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing (BOINC) and we can look forward to new projects in BOINC, probably including S@H 2. mechBgon's DC FAQs
edit: actually, based on Duvie's research, I'd speculate that your gaming performance will be lower on the P4C, because it tries too hard to be "fair" to the background S@H process when it should be focusing on delivering all the gaming performance it can. In light of that, if you want pure gaming performance, either shut down S@H while gaming on the P4C, or go with the A64, which is already a strong gamer and will not try to be two processors at once.
Mech is right on.....
The P4 with HT enabled basically bypasses priority as we see it on non HT enabled cpus with this program...Like FH, SETI is programed to take a low priority by default to be a background running app with little effect on other applications...
P4 w/ HT tries to balance things a bit more equally though I showed with further testing in FH that gaming (outside of UT2003demo flyby and botmatch) was only effect 5-7% though and still absolutely playable on a crappy vid card by most at 1280x1024 settings with high detail and I was still delivering speed in FH frames that were quite impressive.
When I tested it on the Barton machine what I noticed was when seti is running it was quite effective in SETI...Does well for actual mhz and shows the amd prowess...However when I tried gaming and other demanding apps like encoding what I noticed was the low priority of SETI kicked in and the main app did only percentage points slower or damn near equal to as if it was running solo and the SETI got virtually little or no cpu cycles...bottom line after 2 hours of gaming I had basically nothing done. This is the advantage of HT if you enjoy doing 2 apps but having each app work as effectively as possible. The AMD solution which I find hard to believe would be any different on an A64 sacrifices the one to keep the other app flying....NOw I didn't play with priority settings other then default for the applications cause I don't really see a person manipulating these things everrytime they launch an app since individual application vary in how they react with priority settings and running with different apps and combination of apps....
bottom line your games will fly faster with the A64 but during that period of time of gaming you will find you have done considerably less in work...So the question is are you really trying to play at ultimate gaming speed or still make it playable at the settings you like and get seti work units done as fast as possible....
The P4 with HT enabled basically bypasses priority as we see it on non HT enabled cpus with this program...Like FH, SETI is programed to take a low priority by default to be a background running app with little effect on other applications...
P4 w/ HT tries to balance things a bit more equally though I showed with further testing in FH that gaming (outside of UT2003demo flyby and botmatch) was only effect 5-7% though and still absolutely playable on a crappy vid card by most at 1280x1024 settings with high detail and I was still delivering speed in FH frames that were quite impressive.
When I tested it on the Barton machine what I noticed was when seti is running it was quite effective in SETI...Does well for actual mhz and shows the amd prowess...However when I tried gaming and other demanding apps like encoding what I noticed was the low priority of SETI kicked in and the main app did only percentage points slower or damn near equal to as if it was running solo and the SETI got virtually little or no cpu cycles...bottom line after 2 hours of gaming I had basically nothing done. This is the advantage of HT if you enjoy doing 2 apps but having each app work as effectively as possible. The AMD solution which I find hard to believe would be any different on an A64 sacrifices the one to keep the other app flying....NOw I didn't play with priority settings other then default for the applications cause I don't really see a person manipulating these things everrytime they launch an app since individual application vary in how they react with priority settings and running with different apps and combination of apps....
bottom line your games will fly faster with the A64 but during that period of time of gaming you will find you have done considerably less in work...So the question is are you really trying to play at ultimate gaming speed or still make it playable at the settings you like and get seti work units done as fast as possible....
Thanks for the answes guys. Thats what I was wanting to know. And yeah, as far clock for clock I don't think there would be a major difference in Bartons or 64s, I just mentioned 64s because if I did get one I would get a 64. At this point though I think I may stick with a P4. I like having all kinds of crap running at once, lol. And so far my P4 has not let me down.
Just different strokes for different folks.....The A64 is tremendous cpu and platform just doesn't fit all peoples uses and desired results....
Awhile back I ran test for Mechbgon and with HT and 2 instances I was able to run (we were all using same older client) about 30-35 minutes faster per WU then a 2.3ghz A64....So I can only imagine what speed would need to be had to do the same in HT...NOw without HT I was pretty dang close to a 2.2 to 2.3ghz A64, but ofcourse then running mult apps will lean it towards the P4 here....
Markfw900 is reporting about what amounts to a 12-15% speed increase in SETI with the new and not finalized Win64....That basically there would cut my lead in almost half....So things may change....
Awhile back I ran test for Mechbgon and with HT and 2 instances I was able to run (we were all using same older client) about 30-35 minutes faster per WU then a 2.3ghz A64....So I can only imagine what speed would need to be had to do the same in HT...NOw without HT I was pretty dang close to a 2.2 to 2.3ghz A64, but ofcourse then running mult apps will lean it towards the P4 here....
Markfw900 is reporting about what amounts to a 12-15% speed increase in SETI with the new and not finalized Win64....That basically there would cut my lead in almost half....So things may change....
I was mainly just using SETI as an example of a task that needs a decent amount of resources to run and a game as an example of two semi-demanding tasks to try to compare multi-tasking. In retrospect that was probably not a great example due to the way SETI uses CPU cycles (basically using any idle ones). I think Ill try running a game (probably Star Wars Galaxies because its both demanding and I can run a macro in it and alt-tab out) and something else, maybe photoshop. I know the AMD chips are great for most single apps these days, I am just trying to decide if they will semi tank under multiple apps while the P4 with HT just keeps going. I was initially thinking that the answer to that was yes, and I still am for the most part. Maybe somebody with an A64 can try something like I am wanting (run a game and something else at the same time, both demanding apps).
An A64 can handle quite a bit and in my testing of multitasking on an Barton 2500+ oc'd to 3200+ where I saw it tank was doing things like this....
TMPGenc of an AVI movie to mpeg2 DVD standards, Watching a DVD off of the DVD drive, capturing a TV show at MPeg2 DVD standards with my AIW card.....
The barton appeared to run it but showed some slight jerkiness in the playback as well as my system with HT off, but dropped frame in the capture.
To top it off I ran a winrar compression of a 700-800mb directory full of cad files which are extremely compressable...Brought the Barton to its knees with times of system nonresponsive until the winrar application finished.....This is also similar to running NAV2003 over the same directory....With HT on no problem, no jerkiness, no frames dropped, winrar ran fine and system was resonsive to open up folders and move around.
Want to know how an amd will likely act??? Just look at my multitasking study I did with my older 2.6@3.2ghz with Ht off i bios....The barton pretty much performed just like that, but ofcourse slower since a 3200+ barton is about equal to a 2.8c P4....I bet the 3.2ghz I was running in those types of apps and with my fsb I would be comparable to say a 3200+ A64....
TMPGenc of an AVI movie to mpeg2 DVD standards, Watching a DVD off of the DVD drive, capturing a TV show at MPeg2 DVD standards with my AIW card.....
The barton appeared to run it but showed some slight jerkiness in the playback as well as my system with HT off, but dropped frame in the capture.
To top it off I ran a winrar compression of a 700-800mb directory full of cad files which are extremely compressable...Brought the Barton to its knees with times of system nonresponsive until the winrar application finished.....This is also similar to running NAV2003 over the same directory....With HT on no problem, no jerkiness, no frames dropped, winrar ran fine and system was resonsive to open up folders and move around.
Want to know how an amd will likely act??? Just look at my multitasking study I did with my older 2.6@3.2ghz with Ht off i bios....The barton pretty much performed just like that, but ofcourse slower since a 3200+ barton is about equal to a 2.8c P4....I bet the 3.2ghz I was running in those types of apps and with my fsb I would be comparable to say a 3200+ A64....
Memory? Hard drive? This is more important to "bringing a system to its knees" and dropping frames than the CPU. I never have these problems with 4 GB of RAM and fast hard drives, and this is on a single CPU machine.
It depends. While memory and HD can certainly have a huge impact on various programs some just need raw cpu power.
Duh, that's not the fault of the processor, that's the fault of the OS's thread scheduler and the effective priority. It's acting exactly as it should. If SETI only takes a 5-7% performance hit, I would suggest that it is entirely dependant on the game. If a certain game is optimized more for the P4 (to make use of SSE and SSE 2 for instance) you will see the game spend less time in the execution units, thus SETI won't take a big hit. If you were to try it with a game that is not so optimized, it would likely slaughter your SETI performance. The biggest problem with HT is that there's no guarantees of processor availability for the "second" processor. That being said, if you CAN game and run seti at the same time with no noticeable performance hit, why not do it?
Redpriest, Do you see my point???
How can it be IO and memory limited if on the same system I was able to have it not dropped frames and experince jerkiness with HT enabled and then have them happen with HT off??? It is clear the systems IO and memory system are sufficient to handle that load but without multithreading it appears the problem exist.
How can it be IO and memory limited if on the same system I was able to have it not dropped frames and experince jerkiness with HT enabled and then have them happen with HT off??? It is clear the systems IO and memory system are sufficient to handle that load but without multithreading it appears the problem exist.
- Aug 22, 2001
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A64 for SETI=don't bother if that's your primary concern. My Barton@2.35-2.43ghz was as fast as my A64 3000+@2.2ghz is WU for WU. Play a game and nothing gets done, turn the priority up and forget gaming or other heavy usage. You will be very disappointed in the A64 if you want to get WU's crunched while gaming, but if you want to get the best gaming performance you can from a CPU and don't mind SETI being on hold during that time then the A64 will put a
on your face. The difference in Halo has been particularly noticable going form the Barton@2.35ghz to A64@2.2ghz, in big fights I'd sometimes get a little chop with the Barton, it's completely gone with the A64.
mechBgon
Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
- Oct 31, 1999
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Today at work I did a quick-&-dirty 3D mockup of a proposed layout for the server/phone/IT room in the new building that our non-profit agency will be moving to. I used my old-ish Caligari trueSpace 4.3 on my A64 3000+, modeled some crude furnishings and items to populate the room with, then added a couple of area lights, ran a radiosity computation for a while, and finished up with a quick fly-around .AVI render of the cutaway room.
The A64 is certainly showing muscle in the radiosity computation and rendering, I was very pleased with its pace on these time-consuming tasks; but it also shows the effect that Duvie is describing... the system is distinctly sluggish at doing anything else. I partly blame trueSpace 4.3 for being a piece of junk, of course... it really is the Ford Pinto of 3D modelling software, and it loves to crash for no apparent reason (save frequently!). But this is probably an example of where HT would help, or an actual dual-processor system of course.
The A64 is certainly showing muscle in the radiosity computation and rendering, I was very pleased with its pace on these time-consuming tasks; but it also shows the effect that Duvie is describing... the system is distinctly sluggish at doing anything else. I partly blame trueSpace 4.3 for being a piece of junk, of course... it really is the Ford Pinto of 3D modelling software, and it loves to crash for no apparent reason (save frequently!
). But this is probably an example of where HT would help, or an actual dual-processor system of course.YOu hit the nail on the head their Mech...Any true CAD workstation would likley be running a true dual cpu system...Not virtual or logical cpus but physical cpus....I would likely by cost definitely go with a dual opteron setup then ofcourse...
I am more of a novice...I have an archiectural degree and do use it for some design, work, and generally perfecting my skills...For me desktop use is fine for my limited need and funds....
I am more of a novice...I have an archiectural degree and do use it for some design, work, and generally perfecting my skills...For me desktop use is fine for my limited need and funds....
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