question about voltage regulation in other countries

[ZippyDan]

I've noticed in some, less advanced nations, like Colombia and the Philippines, that it is fairly common for people to always use a little voltage regulator (a small box about the size of a toaster that usually looks like it belongs in an auto shop) with their computers. Apparently the power in these places is not extremely reliable or clean, so they do this to extend the life of their machines and perhaps to prevent data loss.

I'm going to be buying a bunch of battery backups for these two locations, and I think it would make sense if the battery backup performed this same task while also providing power when there is no electrical service at all. I'm sure the best route to go would be true online battery backups, but I'm buying for dozens of desktops and don't have the cash or need to go so high end.

I'm looking at these http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP8.../dp/B000RZPK1W which claim to have AVR.

My question is simple: is the AVR I'd find on these models equivalent to or better than the stand-alone voltage regulator boxes I'd find in these foreign countries?

 

[C1]

For me the issue would be, "is it really needed?" Do all units need it this equally?

Normally such devices are only required when data & operations are critical and/or in a locality or situation where the power is unreliable (eg, some laboratory setting). Units such as these are not maintenance free. They usually employ batteries for the backup storage & these eventually need servicing.

If you end up not using the UPS idea & you want to help protect/guard your equipments, then make sure to set your power options (BIOS & OS) so that systems remain shut down after a power failure (vs attempting to auto reboot/restart). Also, make sure that your desk tops employ a very good quality PSU as these generally provide better filtering/buffering against transients.

My advice is that unless operations are critical, put the extra money toward better quality PSUs (eg, otherwise you could still lose operations/data with a crappy PSU even when using the UPS).

 

[ZippyDan]

The computer are already bought and have been in operation for a while. I'm not going to replace what is already working. If powersupplies die, then I will replace them with better quality ones.

Right now, I am installing battery backups that are not present (for continued operations during frequent power outages). Many, but not all, of the computers have these voltage regulators already installed. I was considering this battery backup before I even knew it had AVR. My question is whether the Battery Backup's AVR will be redundant or even better than the ones that we are currently using. Obviously this question would depend on the exact model of VR currently being used, which I do not have for you, so this would be a general question based on someone's experience in these kinds of countries. The currently installed VRs don't look very fancy, or new, but that doesn't say much.

 

[DominionSeraph]

That looks like a smart little unit.

But my google-fu shows Philippines is 220vac.

 

[ZippyDan]

awesome. i was going to get around to checking that. but it is irrelevant to the question as i know Colombia operates on the same power as here.

 

[Modelworks]

One issue with some foreign countries is the utility outputs the correct power just as clean as here but they have a huge issue with piracy of the power. People tend to make connections to the lines without permission and the result is lots of poorly made connections that create surges and sags as well as adding lots of noise.

I would be looking for a separate power conditioner . That is not the same as the UPS you linked. The difference is that most UPS are engineered with the idea that most of the time the power coming in is going to be well within specifications so the amount of filtering and correcting they are designed to do is small. A conditioner is usually designed with the idea that it is being used where someone has already tried using the equipment and found the power to have problems all the time.

One important protection you want in the 3rd world is line to neutral protection. Remember what I said above about people making their own connections ? Well without line to neutral protection if someone shorts the neutral to 240VAC it will likely blow the UPS connected because in the 3rd world grounds are not common like here, they often use neutral as the ground. If the UPS has nowhere to discharge the excess current it can't get rid of the surge, the UPS then has 120VAC on the hot, and 120VAC on the neutral for 240VAC total. UPS can handle that for a very short time before the AVR cannot adjust the voltage and will fail. AVR usually peaks at 180VAC before it can no longer adapt the voltage. If the UPS tries to adapt to those voltages often and has to go to battery often to do it then the UPS battery will have a short life span.


This is what I recommend for a conditioner:
http://www.brickwall.com/product-standards.html

Brick Wall Surge Protectors Will Not Divert Surge Current To Ground
Almost all manufacturers of shunt mode surge protectors (those utilizing MOV's) design their products to divert surge current equally between the ground and neutral wires. A surge protector should not divert surge current to the ground wire.

Interconnected (networked) systems, so prevalent in today's commercial/industrial world, have made shunt mode technology used in most surge protectors (origins 1972) inappropriate. Equipment sharing common power and data lines form circuits between themselves via the ground wire (both referenced at the load). What does current do in a closed circuit? It flows. A powerline surge diverted to the ground wire by a shunt mode surge protector will make its way to the chassis, through the motherboard (which is also grounded at the chassis), onto and through the data lines (which use the powerline ground as a voltage reference and are also connected at the motherboard) and to the data ports of the rest of the connected system. This is how most data line surges originate.

In countries with no or poor grounds a typical surge protector will shunt the excess voltage to ground, and since one does not exist, everything connected to ground now become live, the pc case, the copier frame, etc.
Even in the USA protectors that shunt surges to ground cause ports to burn out because the ports on a motherboard cannot handle surges.


You can then plug any UPS into the conditioner and don't have to worry if the UPS has adequate filtering or surge protection, basically any UPS will do.

 

[Paperdoc]

There are at least four types of disturbance on electrical power supply lines that might need attention, depending on how well the local utility company (and nearby electricity users) control their parts of the system.

1. Short-term sags of voltage in which the line voltage drops significantly (say, more than 10&#37 for periods of a few seconds. Some computer PSU's can handle this, most continuous-protection UPS units would have no difficulty with this.

2. Longer-term sags, and / or complete power outages of more than a few seconds. These can cause corruption of data written badly to hard drives, etc. A UPS can provide enough power to keep the computer running long enough to manually (or in some cases automatically) halt all work and shut down in an orderly manner so all data are safe. This requires maintaining power usually for at least 15 minutes, often longer. It also requires an automatic alarm to call operators to manage the shut-down, and operators on duty for quick response if there is no automated shut-down system. It is possible to build a much larger UPS system to keep running for hours, but usually that is very expensive initially, and will required periodic maintenance and battery replacement.

3. Random short-lived high voltage "spikes" or low-voltage events can cause damage to electronics in the computer system and need to be eliminated - especially the high spikes. MOV's can do this - sometimes only once, however. They work by shorting the spike through themselves, and often this action destroys the MOV itself, which is relatively cheap to replace. The problem is, you may not know your protector has been disabled! More sophisticated spike limiters can do the job and survive for the next spike, but they are much more expensive. In an environment where spikes are common, the more sophisticated devices may be the right choice.

4. Electrical "noise" which really is moderate-voltage spikes on the lines (less than can damage your components) may still end up generating erroneous digital signals and causing data corruption during normal operation. A good voltage regulator and / or voltage surge protector usually can reduce these substantially as long as it is fast-acting.

So, a UPS alone cannot handle all of these. A Voltage Regulator also can't do it all. If your location has all these problems, you need some combination. Some of the very good UPS units do combine all the functions. They are not cheap, but worth it in areas with frequent power supply troubles. Just be sure you know what you are trying to protect against. And the length of power failure you plan to keep running through without shut-down has a huge impact on the cost of your system.

 

[Mark R]

There are at least four types of disturbance on electrical power supply lines that might need attention, depending on how well the local utility company (and nearby electricity users) control their parts of the system.

I'll add a 5th to your list - which Modelworks mentioned: Phase overvoltage due to opposite-phase-to-neutral short-circuit or broken neutral. Electricity distribution systems tend to use either 3 phase, or centre-tapped phase distribution circuits. If a short circuit occurs between a phase and neutral, the neutral voltage will be pulled towards that phase. This will cause the voltage between an opposite or adjacent phase to increase.

E.g. if you have a 120 VAC centre-tapped circuit (like in the US), then if one phase-leg is shorted to neutral, the short circuit will pull the neutral to approx 60 V. The result is that the opposite leg will experience a voltage of 180 VAC to neutral. These over-voltage periods may last several seconds (or until the fault clears).

Even more severe overvoltages can occur in 'broken neutral' conditions (where the neutral breaks) and the return voltage is through the other phases alone. Worst case conditions in this circumstance is 2x normal voltage (and the fault time may be very prolonged)

This voltage will not be protected by any kind of surge protector. Only a voltage regulator device will offer any protection:
the type of regulator device could be either a ferroresonant transformer (a pure passive voltage regulator)
or an electronic UPS type device that will drop to battery when the mains AC goes out of spec (or a dual conversion UPS).

I'll also add a couple of extra points about types of surge protection. A 'surge' needs to be distinguished from overvoltage. A 'surge' is a very high voltage (1000 V +) which exists for a very short period of time (usually less than 0.01 ms). Causes include electric motors, industrial machinery, fluorescent lights and lightning strikes.

Most surge protectors work by shorting out an excessively high voltage. They will shunt the voltage to ground and/or neutral. Because a large current needs to flow to dissipate the surge energy, a good ground is required. This can usually be achieved by driving a 6ft copper rod into the ground and using that as a ground connection. Note that when using surge protection it is critically important that all devices are 'equipotentially bonded'. This is because the current flow into the ground connection will change the voltage on the ground connection. To prevent currents flowing through motherboard ports and electronic components. Every piece of equipment must have a good quality connection to the ground reference point.

There are surge protectors on the market that 'block' surges rather than dissipating them to ground. They are often marketed as having 'No MOVs' because they don't wear out like MOVs. However, caution is needed, as these 'series mode' or 'brick wall' type protectors offer absolutely no protection to 'common mode' surges. By and large, however, these surges are of relatively low energy, and most electronic devices are immune to them anyway. However, it's incorrect to say that just because a series mode protector has no MOVs, it has doesn't wear or burn out. Series mode protectors work by preventing the surge energy being dissipated in your equipment, by damming it up. This results in the very high surge voltage being present across a wire-coil inductor in the surge supressor. Under severe surge conditions, the voltage can destroy the insulation in the winding, destroying the surge supressor (potentially without indication).

My main concern with using a UPS type device in an area with highly erratic power is that there may be a large number of events which cause the device to trip to battery - in addition, good quality protection against surges is essential.

My personal feeling is that the reliability of electronic UPSs may be compromised - particularly if there are large numbers of power faults, and also if the climate is hot. It may be better to look into getting a good quality ferroresonant regulating transformer.

Ferroresonant transformers are basically a clever transformer design. Because they have inductance, they are extremely effective at 'blocking' surges, in the same way as 'brick wall' filters. They are also self-regulating, in that they produce a constant output voltage, even when the input voltage fluctuates - even a 30% over/under voltage should be regulated to within acceptable limits. They store resonant energy, so act like a very short term UPS (about 0.1 seconds - which accounts for a significant proportion of power interruptions, e.g. due to a temporary short circuit, or a power switch transferring to another power source). Because they are pure passive devices (no electronics, motors, etc.) they are extremely tough and extremely reliable.

Ferroresonant transformers are also low-tech, so cheap and readily available. In fact, I'd bet that your 'voltage regulators' are probably ferrorresonant transformers.


My advice would be to:
1. ensure the facility has a decent ground - if not install a good ground rod, and ensure good quality ground connections to all electrical equipment. Ensure all computer devices are equipotentally bonded.
2. Install a ferroresonant transformer which will provide voltage regulation, surge protection and ultra-short term energy storage.
3. Install a UPS device (after the transformer) for battery backup.

 

[Rubycon]

Ferroresonant transformers are basically a clever transformer design. Because they have inductance, they are extremely effective at 'blocking' surges, in the same way as 'brick wall' filters. They are also self-regulating, in that they produce a constant output voltage, even when the input voltage fluctuates - even a 30% over/under voltage should be regulated to within acceptable limits. They store resonant energy, so act like a very short term UPS (about 0.1 seconds - which accounts for a significant proportion of power interruptions, e.g. due to a temporary short circuit, or a power switch transferring to another power source). Because they are pure passive devices (no electronics, motors, etc.) they are extremely tough and extremely reliable.

Ferroresonant transformers are also low-tech, so cheap and readily available. In fact, I'd bet that your 'voltage regulators' are probably ferrorresonant transformers.

Good points on ferroresonant transformers. The best UPS have 'em and been using 'em for years for reason. They are bulletproof. It was the only way to get true zero break power during a transfer in the 70s - aside from expensive/noisy/maintenance intensive motor-generator sets!

Doing sound gigs on island power it's the only way to roll especially with all digital rigs. Power anomalies are very common as described earlier for various reasons and these wreak havoc with this gear.

Speaking of generators I've seen some really crappy generator outputs get cleaned up SUPER well with a ferroresonant conditioner. You'll need a small crane/forklift etc. to move them if they're more than a few kVA in size. (pretty much transformer rule applies)

 

[ZippyDan]

Wow. I guess I should've expected this from the Highly Technical forum, but you guys went from not answering my question to answering everything but my question.

I appreciate all the detail and advice, and I will definitely look into implementing these higher-level and more effective solutions.

But for now, almost every business of our size in Colombia gets by with only VRs and some UPSs. We've been doing the same for years. Change will come slowly and must be budgeted.

For now, we just need battery backups to deal with frequent power outages so that we can have some assurance of business continuity. In the process, I thought I could get some backups that could replace the job of the VRs at the same time, and I was just wondering if these backups would be up to the task compared to what they are using now.

 

[Mark R]

For now, we just need battery backups to deal with frequent power outages so that we can have some assurance of business continuity. In the process, I thought I could get some backups that could replace the job of the VRs at the same time, and I was just wondering if these backups would be up to the task compared to what they are using now.

Assuming that your encumbent VRs are ferroresonant transformers (which they probably are), then you'd be hard pushed to find any sensibly priced modern replacement - as the overall performance of these devices is very good.

You would probably need to be looking at top-of-the-range server-grade modern equipment to get better reliability and better protection against damaging power surges.

The only reason I'd see to change your setup was if your UPSs weren't up to the job - e.g. your equipment didn't work properly on the UPS, or you needed more run time, etc. And even if I did upgrade the equipment, I'd probably still keep the VRs.

 

[ZippyDan]

Assuming that your encumbent VRs are ferroresonant transformers (which they probably are), then you'd be hard pushed to find any sensibly priced modern replacement - as the overall performance of these devices is very good.

You would probably need to be looking at top-of-the-range server-grade modern equipment to get better reliability and better protection against damaging power surges.

The only reason I'd see to change your setup was if your UPSs weren't up to the job - e.g. your equipment didn't work properly on the UPS, or you needed more run time, etc. And even if I did upgrade the equipment, I'd probably still keep the VRs.

cool, well then I guess the only other question I'd have is whether there would be any problem in running these devices in series: wall -> VR -> UPS with AVR -> computer?

 

[ZippyDan]

Also, I'd like to know more about this and how to prevent it:

Even in the USA protectors that shunt surges to ground cause ports to burn out because the ports on a motherboard cannot handle surges.

 

[Mark R]

cool, well then I guess the only other question I'd have is whether there would be any problem in running these devices in series: wall -> VR -> UPS with AVR -> computer?

Very unlikely that there will be any problems from this.

Even in the USA protectors that shunt surges to ground cause ports to burn out because the ports on a motherboard cannot handle surges.

Surge protectors necessarily divert a surge to ground. That's how they work, and it's the only way to deal with large surges, like lightning. The problem is that while the surge is being absorbed by your ground circuit, the surge voltage will appear on your ground wire. If you have 2 computers, connected to different ground wires, but connected via a data cable - then the surge may try to flow down the data cable to get to the other ground wire - this can fry the circuits connected to the data cable.

The VRs (if they are what I think they are) are extremely effective at blocking small and medium surges, by preventing them from getting to the computer, and should prevent most surges from causing damage.

To get extra protection, then the use of 'equipotential bonding' is an option. Essentially, you need to make sure that all your computers are connected, via thick cables, to the same ground. So if a surge affects your ground voltage, all the computers are affected equally - so the surge doesn't try to find alternative routes to ground (via data cables, etc.) You do this, by a getting a big copper bar - e.g. 3mm thick, 30 mm wide, 200 mm long. Connect this via a thick cable to your building's ground connection. Then, using thick (6 or 10 mm2) copper cables, connect every electrical device's earth connection direct to the copper bar, via its own wire (every device must have its own cable to the ground bar).

 

[ZippyDan]

To get extra protection, then the use of 'equipotential bonding' is an option. Essentially, you need to make sure that all your computers are connected, via thick cables, to the same ground. So if a surge affects your ground voltage, all the computers are affected equally - so the surge doesn't try to find alternative routes to ground (via data cables, etc.) You do this, by a getting a big copper bar - e.g. 3mm thick, 30 mm wide, 200 mm long. Connect this via a thick cable to your building's ground connection. Then, using thick (6 or 10 mm2) copper cables, connect every electrical device's earth connection direct to the copper bar, via its own wire (every device must have its own cable to the ground bar).

Ugh, so I'd have to essentially attach a cable from each computer's chassis all the way to the building ground? That is logistically and effort-wise not feasible.

But shouldn't every device in a building (by US code) theoretically be grounded to the building's ground via the power cable?

Finally, will any of the two possible alternates achieve similar protection?

Since I find that ethernet ports die with some frequency (say one per year), I'm betting they are caused by surges. Can I:

1. Get surge protectors/UPSs that have ethernet jacks and offer surge protection on those lines?

2. Ground the ethernet network to the building ground? (This is much more feasible if all the patch panels are in the utility room near the building ground. I'm not sure if there are patch panels that offer a grounding option.)