Question about the bibles

Zysoclaplem

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Sep 26, 2003
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If you are a Christian you follow the New Testament, correct?
Jesus came and changed things, and now Christians use the New Testament, not the Old Testament.
But the Jewish still use the Old Testament?
Is this correct?
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
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Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
If you are a Christian you follow the New Testament, correct?
Jesus came and changed things, and now Christians use the New Testament, not the Old Testament.
But the Jewish still use the Old Testament?
Is this correct?

Is the Old Testament what the Jewish refer to as the Torah?
 

NuclearNed

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May 18, 2001
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Christians follow both the New and the Old Testament, although a minority of Christians erroneously believe that the Old Testament is no longer relevant.

The Jewish faith follows the Old Testament, but not the New.
 

Zysoclaplem

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2003
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Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Christians follow both the New and the Old Testament, although a minority of Christians erroneously believe that the Old Testament is no longer relevant.

The Jewish faith follows the Old Testament, but not the New.

Okay. So why are certain things ignored from the Old? I was told Jesus came and made the Old Testament no longer relevant.
 

Mr N8

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Christians follow both the New and the Old Testament, although a minority of Christians erroneously believe that the Old Testament is no longer relevant.

The Jewish faith follows the Old Testament, but not the New.

Okay. So why are certain things ignored from the Old? I was told Jesus came and made the Old Testament no longer relevant.

He came and made the old system of sacrifice for purification of sins invalid. His death is considered the "ultimate sacrifice," meaning that no sacrifices of animals are required, because he took that place.
 

chocoruacal

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2002
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Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
If you are a Christian you follow the New Testament, correct?
Jesus came and changed things, and now Christians use the New Testament, not the Old Testament.
But the Jewish still use the Old Testament?
Is this correct?

No, it's not correct.

Firstly, the term "Christian' can include everyone from cross burning Clansmen to the Pope. It's a fairly meaningless term by itself, as there is no standard 'practice' of Christianity, in spite of what mommy and daddy made all us good white folk learn in Sunday school. You need to look at a specific branch...Mormon, Methodist, Catholic, whatever. They each weight the religious texts differently. And they don't all use the same version of the Old and New Testaments.

Secondly, you're asking a question that is too complex to be spelled out here. It's not as simple as saying X uses XX and Y uses YY. Use IPL.org and check out some online encyclopedias.
 

jhigley

Junior Member
May 30, 2004
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At the risk of oversimplifying (gosh jolly religion is fun)...

Generally most Christians use both the old and new testaments. The idea isn't that Jesus came and changed things from the old testament, but that he fulfilled things from the old testament, so both apply. This is especially true for Eastern Orthodox Christians. In the evangelical world the old testament has lost some of its importance, but no one from that area would say the new "replaced" the old.

As far as the Jewish faith goes... the first five books of the Christian old testament are called the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy) and are given special emphasis. The rest of the Christian old testament books are split up into "The Prophets" and "The Writings", but afaik all the Torah + the prophets + the writings = the Christian old testament.

Short answer: Christians use both. The Jewish use only the old.
 

Zysoclaplem

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Sep 26, 2003
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Originally posted by: MogulMonster
Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Christians follow both the New and the Old Testament, although a minority of Christians erroneously believe that the Old Testament is no longer relevant.

The Jewish faith follows the Old Testament, but not the New.

Okay. So why are certain things ignored from the Old? I was told Jesus came and made the Old Testament no longer relevant.

He came and made the old system of sacrifice for purification of sins invalid. His death is considered the "ultimate sacrifice," meaning that no sacrifices of animals are required, because he took that place.

Oh okay.
But everything else from the Old Testament should still be followed? Except sacrifices.
 

NuclearNed

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May 18, 2001
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Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Christians follow both the New and the Old Testament, although a minority of Christians erroneously believe that the Old Testament is no longer relevant.

The Jewish faith follows the Old Testament, but not the New.

Okay. So why are certain things ignored from the Old? I was told Jesus came and made the Old Testament no longer relevant.

The New Testament is a continuation of the things that were begun in the Old. Jesus fulfilled the OT; he didn't make it obsolete.

Ignorant Christians believe whatever they want and selectively ignore whatever they don't like or understand. Many Christians, like most people, don't actually read the manuals - they think they know it all already and don't study for themselves. Because of this, there are a lot of misconceptions about Christianity that are perpetuated by ignorant Christians who are going on what they heard someone say. This is the reason so many Christians misrepresent their faith; they don't actually know what their faith is.
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
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Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Christians follow both the New and the Old Testament, although a minority of Christians erroneously believe that the Old Testament is no longer relevant.

The Jewish faith follows the Old Testament, but not the New.

Okay. So why are certain things ignored from the Old? I was told Jesus came and made the Old Testament no longer relevant.

They pick and choose. Homosexuality is an acceptable prejudice, so they hang on to Leviticus re: homosexuality. They reject a heap of other sh1t in Leviticus. I have come to believe that a majority of christians are dishonest hypocrites.



http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/aint/309.htm

There are basically two Biblical prohibitions cited repeatedly and forcefully by those claiming homosexuality is condemned by God, hence should remain illegal. These two are Leviticus, chapter 20, verse 13 and Romans chapter 1, verses 26 and 27. Let's take a look at each.

Taken out of context, Leviticus 20:13 would certainly seem to prohibit homosexuality:

If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

A quick look at the violations punishable by death in the same chapter of Leviticus, however, tells a very different story:

If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:9)

I wouldn't even have a chance to get to verse 13; I'd be dead by verse 9.

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife?with the wife of his neighbor?both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)

Bye bye Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker.

If a man sleeps with his father's wife, he has dishonored his father. Both the man and the woman must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. (Leviticus 20:11)

Poor papa!

If a man sleeps with his daughter-in-law, both of them must be put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their own heads. (Leviticus 20:12)

Poor son!

If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal. (Leviticus 20:15)

Poor livestock!

If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. (Leviticus 20:16)

Note the man has to do it, but the woman need only approach.

A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:27)

O, the carnage at the Psychic Hotline!

It's easy to see that, in context, the always-quoted-out-of-context admonition against homosexuality is hardly God singling out gays for special punishment.

It was, in fact, one of the laws of Leviticus that was responsible for the death of Jesus:

[A]nyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. (Leviticus 24:16)

Jesus was tried by Sanhedren, the ruling religious body of Jerusalem, and found guilty of blasphemy. According to the religious powers that were, to claim he was the son of God was blasphemous. The charge of sedition was added so the Romans would approve of and carry out the death sentence.
 

Zysoclaplem

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2003
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Originally posted by: jhigley
At the risk of oversimplifying (gosh jolly religion is fun)...

Generally most Christians use both the old and new testaments. The idea isn't that Jesus came and changed things from the old testament, but that he fulfilled things from the old testament, so both apply. This is especially true for Eastern Orthodox Christians. In the evangelical world the old testament has lost some of its importance, but no one from that area would say the new "replaced" the old.

As far as the Jewish faith goes... the first five books of the Christian old testament are called the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy) and are given special emphasis. The rest of the Christian old testament books are split up into "The Prophets" and "The Writings", but afaik all the Torah + the prophets + the writings = the Christian old testament.

Short answer: Christians use both. The Jewish use only the old.

I'm just trying to understand. My bf was raised a Christian and knows alot about the bible. I was raised without church and God and what not. But he was getting frustrated trying to explain it to me. He told me that the Old Testament is really no longer followed, but Christians now use the New Testament.
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
3
81
Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
If you are a Christian you follow the New Testament, correct?
Jesus came and changed things, and now Christians use the New Testament, not the Old Testament.
But the Jewish still use the Old Testament?
Is this correct?

I could be wrong, but Christians are selective in what parts of the Bible, new and old testaments, they follow.

 

chocoruacal

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2002
1,197
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Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
Originally posted by: jhigley
At the risk of oversimplifying (gosh jolly religion is fun)...

Generally most Christians use both the old and new testaments. The idea isn't that Jesus came and changed things from the old testament, but that he fulfilled things from the old testament, so both apply. This is especially true for Eastern Orthodox Christians. In the evangelical world the old testament has lost some of its importance, but no one from that area would say the new "replaced" the old.

As far as the Jewish faith goes... the first five books of the Christian old testament are called the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy) and are given special emphasis. The rest of the Christian old testament books are split up into "The Prophets" and "The Writings", but afaik all the Torah + the prophets + the writings = the Christian old testament.

Short answer: Christians use both. The Jewish use only the old.

I'm just trying to understand. My bf was raised a Christian and knows alot about the bible. I was raised without church and God and what not. But he was getting frustrated trying to explain it to me. He told me that the Old Testament is really no longer followed, but Christians now use the New Testament.

Sounds like he's a typical Christian...belief in God, belief in the word of Christ, little to no understanding of the concepts or history of the Christian mythology. But that holds true for any religious mythology.

 

chocoruacal

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2002
1,197
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Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Christians follow both the New and the Old Testament, although a minority of Christians erroneously believe that the Old Testament is no longer relevant.

The Jewish faith follows the Old Testament, but not the New.

Okay. So why are certain things ignored from the Old? I was told Jesus came and made the Old Testament no longer relevant.

The New Testament is a continuation of the things that were begun in the Old. Jesus fulfilled the OT; he didn't make it obsolete.

Ignorant Christians believe whatever they want and selectively ignore whatever they don't like or understand. Many Christians, like most people, don't actually read the manuals - they think they know it all already and don't study for themselves. Because of this, there are a lot of misconceptions about Christianity that are perpetuated by ignorant Christians who are going on what they heard someone say. This is the reason so many Christians misrepresent their faith; they don't actually know what their faith is.

Please stop with the ignorant posts. You keep saying "Christians" like we'd all recognize one if we saw him/her walking down the street. There are "Christians" who belief in separation of the races, Christians who believe that homosexuality is not a okay, Christians who believe that abortion is okay, Christians who believe God delivers Tsunamis to punish the wicked.

Your generalizations are worthless. They have no intellectual value at all. Same with your conclusions. There is no 'manual' for the Christian faith. That would be impossible due to nature of the texts; they are all interpreted differently by different people. But again, you generalize about those as well. Are we talking about the Testaments from the King James Bible? Because you know the texts there were heavily rewritten several hundred years after the death of Christ. If the King James Christ is the only one you know...well...that's an imposter.
 

Zysoclaplem

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2003
8,799
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0
Originally posted by: chocoruacal
Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
Originally posted by: jhigley
At the risk of oversimplifying (gosh jolly religion is fun)...

Generally most Christians use both the old and new testaments. The idea isn't that Jesus came and changed things from the old testament, but that he fulfilled things from the old testament, so both apply. This is especially true for Eastern Orthodox Christians. In the evangelical world the old testament has lost some of its importance, but no one from that area would say the new "replaced" the old.

As far as the Jewish faith goes... the first five books of the Christian old testament are called the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy) and are given special emphasis. The rest of the Christian old testament books are split up into "The Prophets" and "The Writings", but afaik all the Torah + the prophets + the writings = the Christian old testament.

Short answer: Christians use both. The Jewish use only the old.

I'm just trying to understand. My bf was raised a Christian and knows alot about the bible. I was raised without church and God and what not. But he was getting frustrated trying to explain it to me. He told me that the Old Testament is really no longer followed, but Christians now use the New Testament.

Sounds like he's a typical Christian...belief in God, belief in the word of Christ, little to no understanding of the concepts or history of the Christian mythology. But that holds true for any religious mythology.
No, he is pretty smart, and he does not believe the bible. He was raised on it. He believes what he wants.
He was just telling me what he was taught to believe, not what he does.

 

Zysoclaplem

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2003
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Originally posted by: chocoruacal
Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Christians follow both the New and the Old Testament, although a minority of Christians erroneously believe that the Old Testament is no longer relevant.

The Jewish faith follows the Old Testament, but not the New.

Okay. So why are certain things ignored from the Old? I was told Jesus came and made the Old Testament no longer relevant.

The New Testament is a continuation of the things that were begun in the Old. Jesus fulfilled the OT; he didn't make it obsolete.

Ignorant Christians believe whatever they want and selectively ignore whatever they don't like or understand. Many Christians, like most people, don't actually read the manuals - they think they know it all already and don't study for themselves. Because of this, there are a lot of misconceptions about Christianity that are perpetuated by ignorant Christians who are going on what they heard someone say. This is the reason so many Christians misrepresent their faith; they don't actually know what their faith is.

Please stop with the ignorant posts. You keep saying "Christians" like we'd all recognize one if we saw him/her walking down the street. There are "Christians" who belief in separation of the races, Christians who believe that homosexuality is not a okay, Christians who believe that abortion is okay, Christians who believe God delivers Tsunamis to punish the wicked.

Your generalizations are worthless. They have no intellectual value at all. Same with your conclusions. There is no 'manual' for the Christian faith. That would be impossible due to nature of the texts; they are all interpreted differently by different people. But again, you generalize about those as well. Are we talking about the Testaments from the King James Bible? Because you know the texts there were heavily rewritten several hundred years after the death of Christ. If the King James Christ is the only one you know...well...that's an imposter.

Well I was told that the bible was translated dozens of times, and that the true meaning of it was probably lost long ago.
 

NuclearNed

Raconteur
May 18, 2001
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Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
Originally posted by: chocoruacal
Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Christians follow both the New and the Old Testament, although a minority of Christians erroneously believe that the Old Testament is no longer relevant.

The Jewish faith follows the Old Testament, but not the New.

Okay. So why are certain things ignored from the Old? I was told Jesus came and made the Old Testament no longer relevant.

The New Testament is a continuation of the things that were begun in the Old. Jesus fulfilled the OT; he didn't make it obsolete.

Ignorant Christians believe whatever they want and selectively ignore whatever they don't like or understand. Many Christians, like most people, don't actually read the manuals - they think they know it all already and don't study for themselves. Because of this, there are a lot of misconceptions about Christianity that are perpetuated by ignorant Christians who are going on what they heard someone say. This is the reason so many Christians misrepresent their faith; they don't actually know what their faith is.

Please stop with the ignorant posts. You keep saying "Christians" like we'd all recognize one if we saw him/her walking down the street. There are "Christians" who belief in separation of the races, Christians who believe that homosexuality is not a okay, Christians who believe that abortion is okay, Christians who believe God delivers Tsunamis to punish the wicked.

Your generalizations are worthless. They have no intellectual value at all. Same with your conclusions. There is no 'manual' for the Christian faith. That would be impossible due to nature of the texts; they are all interpreted differently by different people. But again, you generalize about those as well. Are we talking about the Testaments from the King James Bible? Because you know the texts there were heavily rewritten several hundred years after the death of Christ. If the King James Christ is the only one you know...well...that's an imposter.

Well I was told that the bible was translated dozens of times, and that the true meaning of it was probably lost long ago.


The Bible has been translated dozens of times, but the translations have largely been taken from texts that were contemporary to the times the events therein happened (i.e. the Dead Sea scrolls, and other similar texts from antiquity). I would like to hear from a real scholar (even a secular one) who seriously believes that the original meaning of the Bible was lost somewhere in time.

There is a manual for the Christian faith, even though it has been translated from its original languages into various other languages and lingos (thus modern translations suited for contemporary language). And no, the texts were not rewritten several hundred years after the death of Christ. The proof of this lies in original texts now stored in museums and universities throughout the world. Unconvinced? There are tons of publications that back this up; a good place to start would be a publication called Biblical Archeological Review. Have fun reading.

People are always going to interpret the meaning of texts differently. Two people can read "See Spot run" and come to different conclusions. However, that fact does not mean that there is no concrete message that the original author meant to convey. Since we live in a time of rampant moral relativism, it is easy for you to say that the Bible can mean whatever an individual thinks it means, that there are no blacks and whites, only shades of gray. I assure you that this is not the case in the majority of the Bible.
 

Stark

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2000
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Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
Originally posted by: chocoruacal
Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Christians follow both the New and the Old Testament, although a minority of Christians erroneously believe that the Old Testament is no longer relevant.

The Jewish faith follows the Old Testament, but not the New.

Okay. So why are certain things ignored from the Old? I was told Jesus came and made the Old Testament no longer relevant.

The New Testament is a continuation of the things that were begun in the Old. Jesus fulfilled the OT; he didn't make it obsolete.

Ignorant Christians believe whatever they want and selectively ignore whatever they don't like or understand. Many Christians, like most people, don't actually read the manuals - they think they know it all already and don't study for themselves. Because of this, there are a lot of misconceptions about Christianity that are perpetuated by ignorant Christians who are going on what they heard someone say. This is the reason so many Christians misrepresent their faith; they don't actually know what their faith is.

Please stop with the ignorant posts. You keep saying "Christians" like we'd all recognize one if we saw him/her walking down the street. There are "Christians" who belief in separation of the races, Christians who believe that homosexuality is not a okay, Christians who believe that abortion is okay, Christians who believe God delivers Tsunamis to punish the wicked.

Your generalizations are worthless. They have no intellectual value at all. Same with your conclusions. There is no 'manual' for the Christian faith. That would be impossible due to nature of the texts; they are all interpreted differently by different people. But again, you generalize about those as well. Are we talking about the Testaments from the King James Bible? Because you know the texts there were heavily rewritten several hundred years after the death of Christ. If the King James Christ is the only one you know...well...that's an imposter.

Well I was told that the bible was translated dozens of times, and that the true meaning of it was probably lost long ago.

All of the books of the Hebrew Bible are represented in the Dead Sea Scroll collection except Esther, and the "meaning" is the same in both.

The KJV may not be the most accurate version, but it's not quite the conspiracy re-write you think it is.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
30,989
46,548
136
I could be wrong, but Christians are selective in what parts of the Bible, new and old testaments, they follow.


Nope, you are quite correct.
 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
15,995
1
81
Christ and the disciples used a Greek text of 70 books, so it was called the Septuagint.
When they refer to Scripture, this is what they are referring to, NOT the Bible, which did not exist till hundreds of years later.
When they refer to the Law, they mean the first 5 books of Moses, or the Pentateuch, which are Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.
When they refer to the Prophets, they refer to the Prophetic books.
 

Kelemvor

Lifer
May 23, 2002
16,928
8
81
The Old Testiment is mainly stories about people finding God, believing in him, etc. It's written to encompass hundreds of years and is mainly stories. The New Testiment is more the life of Jesus and his teachsings and such. There's nothing that makes one irrelevant, they are talking about completely different things.
 

Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Christians follow both the New and the Old Testament, although a minority of Christians erroneously believe that the Old Testament is no longer relevant.

The Jewish faith follows the Old Testament, but not the New.

Okay. So why are certain things ignored from the Old? I was told Jesus came and made the Old Testament no longer relevant.

They pick and choose. Homosexuality is an acceptable prejudice, so they hang on to Leviticus re: homosexuality. They reject a heap of other sh1t in Leviticus. I have come to believe that a majority of christians are dishonest hypocrites.

Ummm ... you don't have to look at Leviticus to find a condemnation of homosexuality. I don't understand why some people are so hung on the Old Testament. Perhaps it appears they pick and choose because the people you hear it from are not well-informed about the very book they reference.

For a New Testament reference to homosexuality look at Romans 1:26-27. (There are other references, but not as explicit as this one.) To squash the New Testament argument, you'll have to try again, Aidanjm, for an intellectually honest discussion.
 
Aug 23, 2000
15,509
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Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Christians follow both the New and the Old Testament, although a minority of Christians erroneously believe that the Old Testament is no longer relevant.

The Jewish faith follows the Old Testament, but not the New.

Okay. So why are certain things ignored from the Old? I was told Jesus came and made the Old Testament no longer relevant.

Because it's easier to get people to follow you if there are rewards and happiness, not a wrathfull vengful God.