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Question about NVIDIA vs ATI video cards

L

Link19

Senior member
If you have an Athlon 64 system with a NFORCE 4 chipset, is there any advanatge to having an NVIDIA video card over an ATI video card just because the chipset is made by NVIDIA as well as the video card? For instance, could NVIDIA intentionally design their chipsets to perform worse with an ATI video card than their own chipset video cards? I have always wondered about this because it just seems more Athlon 64 systems have an NVIDIA video card rather than an ATI video card.

So, is it possible that an ATI video card would perform worse on a system with an NVIDIA NFORCE 4 chipset than it would on a system with a different chipset because NVIDIA may optimize their chipset for their own video cards? Or does this not make a difference? I only ask because it just seems that two of the same brands would go better together if possible.

Last but not least, what video card would be better for games like Half Life 2 or Counter-Strike Source on an Athlon 64 system with an NFORCE 4 chipset (non-SLI). An ATI Radeon X850 XT or an NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra?
 
they could but i think AT reviews have shown no or so little it's not an issue levels of it.

the X850XT would hammer the 6800U in hl2 (and generally beats it by a little xcept for d3)

 
There is a slight benefit to running Nforce 4 chipset and Nvidia videocard as opposed to say a Via chipset and an Nvidia videocard. However, in the games where ATI is faster (HL2, counter strike), no chipset will ever make up for the advantage ATI cards hold in those games.
 
on a somewhat related note...I've actually noticed that I get higher CPU overclocks with my NF (2 and 3) chipsets using ATi video cards. Weird stuff.
 
The answer is YES, Nforce mobos are made to run better with Nvidias own GPU, thats obv and its well doc'd over the WWW, party as some NF mobos have onboard GPU, so make up of boards makes this a better match.

Dont flame or troll this reply before you all go and look up results in www.google.com 🙂
 
Originally posted by: humey
The answer is YES, Nforce mobos are made to run better with Nvidias own GPU, thats obv and its well doc'd over the WWW, party as some NF mobos have onboard GPU, so make up of boards makes this a better match.

Dont flame or troll this reply before you all go and look up results in www.google.com 🙂
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So, was it a bad mistake for a friend of mine who bought an NVIDIA NFORCE 4 motherboard to go with an ATI X850 XT video card? That is primarly why I ask this question. Would the difference be noticeable in HL2 and Counterstrike, which are the games my friend primarly plays? He has told me he is worried he made a mistake and should have gone with an NVIDIA video card because he saw better benchmark scores for users with a GeForce 6800 video card?
 
Humey doesn't know what he's talking about. nForce based motherboards work fine with ATI graphics cards. With HL2 and Counterstike (source), an ATI card will actually be better than a comparable nVidia based video card.
 
No it wasnt a bad mistake, you can use a ATI card with a NF mobo and you will be able to use Nvidia GPUs on new ATI Chipset Mobos soon.

Just that the NF mobos are build to better use the Nvidia cards, obv as same company and both Nvidia chipsets.

Im sure he will be happy on his ATI, but i read some peeps get AGP Aperture Size (MB) problems on NF mobos with ATI gpus, may be fixed by bios update, infact i think it was a bug and fixed.

n yusef, dont insult me OK, i said above dont flame or troll, i didnt state it didnt run a ATI card well, just optimised for Nvidia as he asked in his Question. :|

You have just showed how much a lamer you are. 😉 , so choose your wording a bit more carefully in future thanks.
 
Originally posted by: humey
No it wasnt a bad mistake, you can use a ATI card with a NF mobo and you will be able to use Nvidia GPUs on new ATI Chipset Mobos soon.

Just that the NF mobos are build to better use the Nvidia cards, obv as same company and both Nvidia chipsets.

Im sure he will be happy on his ATI, but i read some peeps get AGP Aperture Size (MB) problems on NF mobos with ATI gpus, may be fixed by bios update, infact i think it was a bug and fixed.

n yusef, dont insult me OK, i said above dont flame or troll, i didnt state it didnt run a ATI card well, just optimised for Nvidia as he asked in his Question. :|

You have just showed how much a lamer you are. 😉 , so choose your wording a bit more carefully in future thanks.
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I know it will work just fine. WHat I meant by a bad mistake is was it a bad mistake in terms of the performance my friend would be getting in DirectX 9.0C based games. WIll the performance be significantly different with an ATI video card vs an NVIDIA video card on an NVIDIA chipset motherboard? Or will the highest end ATI video card still outperform the highest end NVIDIA video card for DirectX 9.0c based games, even on an NVIDIA chipset motherboard? Because I have heard that the latest ATI video cards are better for DirectX based games, but the latest NVIDIA based video cards are better for OpenGL based games?
 
Originally posted by: Link19

The highest end ATI video card still outperform the highest end NVIDIA video card for DirectX 9.0c based games, even on an NVIDIA chipset motherboard. Latest ATI video cards are better for DirectX based games, but the latest NVIDIA based video cards are better for OpenGL based games
Click to expand...

Here end thread. Your answer lied directly in your question 🙂

 
Hmm, ok there is many thread with troll/flame wars over this subject.

Fact is yes its late in day on april 2005 to buy a non dx9c non p.s 3.0 card even if fanboys claim you dont need apart from a few new games IMO

Fact is nvidia have been proven to have better drivers in recent tests on sites and esp openGL.

IMO i stand by the 6800U being the best agp and pci e card today with its tech that no others have, and X800 and X850 are far newer than the N40 april 2004 launch anyhow.

The eVga 6800UE has more BW than any other current card at only 450/1200mhz (lot lower mhz than ATI's) just like AMD can beat Intel at lower mhz due to commands per clock.

If i had a deep pocket of cash today i would sit and wait till may/june for new Cards to be launched, and only go PCI-E, i would even say after completing Doom3 ROE that id buy 2x Gpus for SLI as its a strainfull game at max settings + 5.1 sound on.

This post is for your benifit as you asked me directly and parts are both factual and IMO, i dont want a repeat flame from a noob who didnt add anything helpful to your request.

Thanks. 🙂
 
RussianSensation, YOU are once more EDITING peeps posts, you missed 2 very important words out and that now looks like he giving a ANSWER, when he is asking a QUESTION, he didnt state what you claimed anywhere in his post. :disgust:

You edited it to this >>> 😀

"The highest end ATI video card still outperform the highest end NVIDIA video card for DirectX 9.0c based games, even on an NVIDIA chipset motherboard. Latest ATI video cards are better for DirectX based games, but the latest NVIDIA based video cards are better for OpenGL based games"

Yes the above looks like his statement/answer.

He actually said this >>>

"WIll the performance be significantly different with an ATI video card vs an NVIDIA video card on an NVIDIA chipset motherboard?"

THEN the part with the 2 words not missing that you removed.

"Or will the highest end ATI video card still outperform the highest end NVIDIA video card for DirectX 9.0c based games, even on an NVIDIA chipset motherboard? Because I have heard that the latest ATI video cards are better for DirectX based games, but the latest NVIDIA based video cards are better for OpenGL based games? "

AND the added Question marks (?) let sus know he is asking our opinions not making a statement. 😀

So before you quote anymore of peeps post, please LEAVE it unedited as you can totally change the context around and try make them look bad. :|
 
The fastest single card option for running HL2 powered games is using an AMD NF4 based mobo paired with an A64 and an 850XT graphics card.
 
If Nvidia, given their current position in the A64 chipset market, were to make it so only Nvidia video cards could be used on their chipsets, it'd be an open door to a very large anti-trust law suit.
 
Possibly true but in playing tha games your eyes wont see an speed difference, i still prefer in april 2005 to have a dx9c p.s 3 card as IMO i prefer this over small fps gain as the few games ive played that use it are nice looking and more to follow, but new cards are due very very soon anyhow.

I still repeat the N40 is over 1 year old tech and far lower mhz than the ATI's which are far newer.

Also if nvidia made their mobo chipsets only work with nvidia cards it wouldnt cause a antitrust, its up to them what they do, if u wanted a ati card then you wou;ldnt buy a NF mobo, obv they dont do rhis as they will sell more mobos.

Intel cant be sued for their own chipset mobos not being able to run a amd cpu.

If i invented something i would monopoly it, who wouldnt, same as MS did for years, you dont like dont use buy something else, but wait what else is there. 😉

If speed bothers you, stick 2x Nvidia GPU in SLI into the NF4 mobo. 🙂
 
humey, I edited his post because that is exactly what i was going to type, but he typed "the answer" for me already. So i simply quoted him with the proper changes that were necessary to answer his quesiton.

Secondly, I was never recommending him what card to buy necessarily. I simply tried to answer his question - which is that chipset selection does not matter in the real world because any advantages/disadvantages that nvidia/ati cards have in a particular game in question will be always offset by the design of the graphics card (drivers, gpu speed, gpu features, memory speed, etc)

In other words where X850XT PE is faster than 6800Ultra, it'll be faster whether X850XT PE is using an Intel, Nvidia, Via whatever chipset. Similarly, in cases where X850XT PE is faster, 6800Ultra will never be faster whether it uses an Intel, Nvidia or Via chipset. The same is true for cases where 6800Ultra is faster.
 
I don't see why you're all arguing over this - as far as I know, the nf4 chipset will work equally well with both ati and nvidia cards. If this wasnt the case, I'm sure we would have heard about it a while ago. The actual performance in a game depends a lot more on the video card itself than the manufacturer of a chipset.
 
Originally posted by: humey
It still didnt make him a liar or end thread as you said.
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The reason why it didnt end the thread was because you responded.
I never called him a liar, so I do not understand that comment. And for those who actually read each response carefully, they would be able to easily follow along and realize that I simply edited his question to serve as the answer in my post.
 
Originally posted by: humey
Possibly true but in playing tha games your eyes wont see an speed difference, i still prefer in april 2005 to have a dx9c p.s 3 card as IMO i prefer this over small fps gain as the few games ive played that use it are nice looking and more to follow, but new cards are due very very soon anyhow.

I still repeat the N40 is over 1 year old tech and far lower mhz than the ATI's which are far newer.

Also if nvidia made their mobo chipsets only work with nvidia cards it wouldnt cause a antitrust, its up to them what they do, if u wanted a ati card then you wou;ldnt buy a NF mobo, obv they dont do rhis as they will sell more mobos.

Intel cant be sued for their own chipset mobos not being able to run a amd cpu.

If i invented something i would monopoly it, who wouldnt, same as MS did for years, you dont like dont use buy something else, but wait what else is there. 😉

If speed bothers you, stick 2x Nvidia GPU in SLI into the NF4 mobo. 🙂
Click to expand...

Humey ATis current offering if uve noticed is 3 years old. nVidias clock speed is far lower because the new architecture for the GPU runs more efficiently so doesnt need to be pushed so high up. The X850 is still a R300 core. Only the pipes and a few architectural enhancements were added to the core. the nV40 is totally different from the nV30.

Intel make chipsets for their own CPUs because of the way their CPU works, its totally different to AMDs, and as far as they know, they dont know exactly how AMDs work, so they cant make chipsets to run it. While on the other hand nVidia and ATi have exactly they same way to plug in a graphics card, meaning all the work is done on the card, and not throughout their motherboard. So instead of cutting of a huge market, they opened it, of course they cant be sued by closing that market off, but unless they are like Intel and have 70 to 80% of the market, its not gonna happen anytime soon.

You monopolies something, and if a new company comes into your market, and you still have a monopoly and push the competitor out with lower prices and what not, your in violation of the law. Dont ask me how MS got away with it in the US, but read the news, in Europe they are still thinking if they should split it up or do something about it.

 
Also if nvidia made their mobo chipsets only work with nvidia cards it wouldnt cause a antitrust, its up to them what they do, if u wanted a ati card then you wouldnt buy a NF mobo, obv they dont do rhis as they will sell more mobos.
Click to expand...

Actually, if they had a big enough percentage of the market, and you could prove that they explicitly made their products incompatible to hurt their competitor, it could be an antitrust issue. The tricky part, of course, would be proving that they did it on purpose -- I'm sure they'd claim they had some arcane technical reason for having their motherboard deviate from the normal PCIe x16 spec and doing weird things to screw up ATI's drivers. As pointed out, doing this would be *really* dumb, considering the existence of several viable competitors to NVIDIA in the motherboard market.

Intel cant be sued for their own chipset mobos not being able to run a amd cpu.
Click to expand...

It's one thing if they were built from the ground up as incompatible (as with Intel and AMD processors), or used some proprietary interface that the competitor had reverse-engineered. It's another if they use some standardized interface, and previous generations of the products got along fine, and then suddenly (and very conveniently) they stop working for the underdog competitor.
 
Actually, if they had a big enough percentage of the market, and you could prove that they explicitly made their products incompatible to hurt their competitor, it could be an antitrust issue.
Click to expand...

No, it wouldn't be for a lengthy list of reasons not the least of which is nVidia is third in the broader chipset market. Forget monolopy, plurality or even close competitor, they are a distant also ran as of this point. Furthermore, ATi is a direct competitor in both the chipset and add in board markets and one with easily comparable resources. IF nV were to completely break all compatibility with ATi boards and publicize that they did it to force users to buy nVidia graphics cards it would not come remotely close to being an anti trust issue, the assertion is rather laughable looking at all factors actually.
 
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