Question about Corvette's and turns..specifically left and right ones... :D

[Goosemaster]

I have continually been reading comments in the Ford GT thread about corvettes such as

Beats the sh!t out of it?!?! Only in a straight line, throw twisties into it and your corvette isn't worth SH!T!

I must admit, I jumped on the bandwagon myself, without knowing WTF I was talking about. I have recently been watching the SPEED CHANNEL, and have come to realize that Corvettes can indeed excel well in the true TEST that is LeMans, even winning it.

It would seem obvious then that the LeMans corvete must be heavily modified from the comments I've heard here. If anything, the shape is quite different.


Basically, why is the corvette bad at corvnering?


Numbers/Statistics/experinces only please.

Usually problems with cars occur because of:
-Inferior/unmatched suspension that does away with body roll.
-Bad tires
-Weak brakes
-Bad center of Gravity.
-Bad weight ratio--appearantly the 911's specific placement in the rear makes the car rear-heavy, and causes "hopping" when @ full throttle from a standstill.
-Bad aerodynamics
-Big engine mismatched with uncapable or unsuitable chassis(Too much/Too little power...Too much/Too little Weight)

 

[StageLeft]

It's bad because it's a rwd car not balanced as well as it could be. Bad compared to a ferrari anyway. In reality it's going to outcorner most cars on the road, and you can't have everything for a car as inexpensive as the corvette. It is good for the price, surely.

 

[Goosemaster]

Thanks.

I am studying Engineering right now, and am really getting interested in cars....Electrical, but Mechanical is very tempting.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Last I checked, the Corvette was quite good at road racing. The long wheelbase makes it not too hot at autocross, but on road courses the Corvette does fantastically. This stock Corvette seems to do okay against a race car

 

[geno]

It's not that it's bad by any means - a C5 is a great handling car, and the Z06 is almost world class. However, the GT is better by a good margin!

 

[Mean MrMustard]

Question about Corvette's and turns..specifically left and right ones...

As opposed to other turns...

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: ELP

Question about Corvette's and turns..specifically left and right ones...

As opposed to other turns...

Those inverse loops are wicked

Originally posted by: geno
It's not that it's bad by any means - a C5 is a great handling car, and the Z06 is almost world class. However, the GT is better by a good margin!

Ah.

 

[Salvador]

Basically, why is the corvette bad at corvnering?

It isn't. It's an awesome track car! I had the Z06 up to Road America for a 2 day event last month and I was blowing by just about everything.

Here are some excellent onboard video's taken by a friend of mine on the Z06 boards. This was the Road America track event from this past spring. His car is relatively stock other than DOT race tires and PFC pads. He mixes it up well with a 650 hp race Porsche (actually catches him in the corners, but the Porsche leaves him in the straights) and passes a race Panoz at one point.

Z06 Onboard Track Video's at Road America

Two of my Z06 buddies were at a Viper DE at Gingerman this past summer and took first and second away from the Viper guys for the fastest lap trophy at their own event. Actually, the Vette guys took first, second, fourth and sixth out of 35 Vipers.

The Ford GT is a very nice and capable car, but look at the price comparison and the fact that Ford is building this car in very limited numbers.

Sal

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Yeah, the GT is an outright monster when it comes to handling. But it has the price tag to match. It'll take some massiveaftermarket stuff to keep up.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
It's bad because it's a rwd car not balanced as well as it could be. Bad compared to a ferrari anyway. In reality it's going to outcorner most cars on the road, and you can't have everything for a car as inexpensive as the corvette. It is good for the price, surely.

Please do not comment on something you know NOTHING about. "not balanced" because it is RWD??? The Vette has a almost 50/50 weight ratio. That means half of its weight is ont he front while the other half is on the rear.

I have driven many Vettes, including some C5's, and the C5 rides very nice, almost to nice for me, and handles like it is on rails.

After I get my motorcycle insurance settlement, a used C5 is probable going to be my next car, because of its speed, reliability, and hadling skills.

 

[Salvador]

It'll take some massiveaftermarket stuff to keep up.

Actually, a $20K MTI Z07 Stroker package would do the trick. $5K more if you have to have the C5-R block. This is the same block used in the Corvette C5-R ALMS GT car.

Here's some cool C5-R photos.

Sal

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Salvador: you odviously didn't click the links.

 

[Goosemaster]

I wish they would put more effort into the interior however. I HAVE seen quite a few, and for such a nice mechanical package, i can find better creature conforts in much cheaper cars.

Then again, when my friend tried to show me the semi-POS scratched up dusty interiror of his '82 vette, I couldn't take my eye's off the engine.

 

[Salvador]

Salvador: you odviously didn't click the links

Yeah I do. Why? Not working for you?

About the cheap interior.. One ride in it and you'll forget all about the interior. Believe me. I actually think that they put too much in the car because it's a thinly disquished race car as far as I'm concerned. I don't even listen to the radio in the thing.

Here's a cool shot of the Millenium Yellow C5-R

One last thing to add.. Isn't the GT-40 a supercharged V-8? I'm talking all motor with the Corvette. You can throw a supercharger on the Corvette too for under $10K and it would be right in the same ballpark as the GT40. I don't like superchargers though because of the heat.

Sal

 

[Actaeon]

Corvettes are EXECELLENT handling cars. While probally not as agile as more expensive racing inspired cars, they are by no means bad at handling.

Who ever said the Corvette does no handle well has no clue what they are talking about.

If you want to compare it to the new Ford GT, keep in mind the GT is MUCH more expensive, and then perhaps with the money saved, invest in some mods. While I do not fully understand how well the GT performs, I assume it should perform well, more than likely, better than a Corvette and even then, I would almost wager than the Corvette would also hold its ground pretty well. The GT outpeforming a Corvette to be expected from a car that costs at least 3x as much.

 

[phonemonkey]

I've only driven a C4 vette (it's the 40th anniversary model), but I can tell you that it sticks to the road on the corners with no problem.

The car is in the seattle area, so I've had the chance to take it on wet and icy roads (no snow), and even on that I haven't had any traction/control problems.

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: ELP

Question about Corvette's and turns..specifically left and right ones...

As opposed to other turns...

 

[LAUST]

So they are comparing a $130,000 car to a $50,000 Z06?

 

[Siddhartha]

How Road and Track rated the Z06

1. Ferrari 360 Modena
2. Lotus Elise
3. Porsche 911 Turbo
4. Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VII
5. Chevrolet Corvette Z06
6. Porsche Boxster S
7. BMW M3 coupe
8. Mazda MP3

There is no question that Chevrolet's Corvette Z06 is an amazing sports car for the money. With a sticker price around $50,000, the 5.7-liter, 405-bhp American V-8 wows you with its enormous power. Romp on the throttle and its thunderous exhaust rumble is just as entertaining as its heart-pounding acceleration. And with a massive 400 lb.-ft. of torque on tap, it's no wonder that the Vette scores the highest in throttle response.

Riding on upper and lower A-arm suspension at all four corners and a set of sticky Goodyear F1 Supercar (265/40ZR-17 front and 295/35ZR-18 rear) tires, the Z06 also impresses with its steady-state lateral grip. On the skidpad, it exhibits mild understeer and easily generates 0.98g, beating out the rest of the field. In contrast, through the slalom where transient behavior is highlighted, the Vette can be easily induced to oversteer with aggressive throttle input. But thanks to a well-balanced chassis, the moment the rear begins to step out, a flick of the steering wheel and a quick tap on the gas straightens the car's path.

The Corvette's long, sloping front end and low driving position make the car feel a bit bulky to drive around town. And some staffers also notice that the brake pedal travel is too long and the effort is soft for spirited driving. After his hot laps in the Z06, Herta echoes the same sentiments: "On the track coming down the straight, I don't feel like I can brake as late as I want to. And through the transition and over the rise, the car feels big, heavy and a little sloppy. The car wants to leave the ground. It has a lot more movement than the others."

In driving excitement, though, the Corvette clearly puts the biggest smile on Herta's face. He notes: "I can really drop the hammer coming off the corner and the Z06 will set me back in the seat. The steering feedback has a nice positive turn-in without a lot of understeer. This is a fun car that I can get the rear to step out, get on power and have a nice Dukes of Hazzard slide out of the corner. But if I were to tune this car for the racetrack to go fast, I would work on improving its rear grip."

 

[Triumph]

Anyone who says a Corvette can't handle is misinformed, plain and simple. There's simply no way around that. I understand your question, and that you want to know why it doesn't handle from an engineering standpoint, but I can't answer any of your questions, because it DOES handle. It has good weight distribution, the CG of the engine is located behind the front axle, it has a fully independent suspension, wide sticky tires, low CG, blah blah blah. Your question is unanswerable.

 

[Siddhartha]

Another R&T Corvette racetrack comparison test


Without question, the Chevrolet Corvette Z06 wins the "best bang for the buck" category. The 5.7-liter V-8's output of 405 bhp and 400 lb.-ft. of torque far surpasses those of the other two, while its base price of $49,505 undercuts the Porsche's by about $18,000 and the Acura's by nearly $40,000. Needless to say, the Corvette Z06 would be our hands-down choice in a price-dependent category. So how did the Corvette fare through Laguna Seca's challenging layout of tricky corners and elevation changes? In grand fashion, thank you very much.


With its yaw control system left on, all three of us set our fastest time in the Corvette Z06, a fact that should come as no surprise when you consider its zero-to-60-mph and skidpad numbers were tops in this test. Millen and I ranked the Z06 first in the "lapping" department primarily because it did everything ? accelerate, brake and turn ? in an effortless manner. "The Z06 was obviously developed at a racetrack as the braking and handling are really well tuned. It encouraged me to push it hard very quickly. The harder this car is pushed, the better it behaves," Steve commented.


For me, the Z06 was easiest to hustle around the track simply because it behaved so predictably. Keep all inputs smooth and the Z06 will not get you in trouble. Because of logistics I logged only one timed lap in the Z06, but it was still good enough to be my best of the day. The car did feel significantly heavier through corners than the others, but its balance remained neutral, and the tail wasn't as eager to swing around.


Monticello, on the other hand, said it took some effort for him to get accustomed to the car's high level of horsepower and torque, saying its handling feel wasn't as refined as either the Acura's or Porsche's. "I found the Z06 lost traction in the wet too easily, and the steering felt too quick. Plus, the ferociousness of the engine is a little daunting to someone who is trying to learn the process of hustling a car around a racetrack, and a wet one at that."


On the open road, the Vette drew some criticism, particularly concerning its harsh ride quality. "The seats of the Corvette are really comfortable although they don't have any lateral support. The ride does bounce you around a bit more than the other two, but it's nothing too difficult to live with," Monticello noted.


Millen agreed. "When a car handles and works well on a racetrack, there are sometimes compromises made as to how it rides on the street and this parlays into some abruptness on the road compared to the Porsche and NSX. But for all intents and purposes, it is a comfortable touring machine as far as sports cars are concerned."


Without a doubt the Corvette Z06's true home is the racetrack. With so much power and handling, you would think that the learning curve would be steeper in the Corvette than the other two, but that was not the case. Sure, the Z06 doesn't offer as much finesse as the others, but that can be said about all race-ready cars

 

[Salvador]

Salvador: you odviously didn't click the links.

Oh.. Ok. I thought you were talking about my links not working. Even though your LPE link didn't work, I knew what you were talking about. You don't even need a $20K package on the C5 to compete with the Ford GT. The $5K Magnacharger package would do it. Like I said before though, I don't like the added heat of a supercharger since I like to run it on road courses. If you did add a supercharger to the Z06, it would be like comparing apples to apples with the Ford GT since it is also a supercharged small block V8 for a lot less $$. Throw on a set of Penske coil overs for around $2K and you're cooking.

Riding on upper and lower A-arm suspension at all four corners and a set of sticky Goodyear F1 Supercar (265/40ZR-17 front and 295/35ZR-18 rear) tires, the Z06 also impresses with its steady-state lateral grip. On the skidpad, it exhibits mild understeer and easily generates 0.98g, beating out the rest of the field. In contrast, through the slalom where transient behavior is highlighted, the Vette can be easily induced to oversteer with aggressive throttle input. But thanks to a well-balanced chassis, the moment the rear begins to step out, a flick of the steering wheel and a quick tap on the gas straightens the car's path.

Actually, GM fixed this for the '04 Z06. They took the car to the Nurburgring and retuned the OE Sach's shocks. The people that have tested the car noticed a drastic improvement. Now, everyone with pre- '04 Z06's are swapping the shocks to the '04 Sachs units.

Here's an excert from Sports Car International

From Sports Car International.
Here's the deal: A key measure of a shocks perfomrance is its force vs. velocity curve, which charts a shocks resistance(force) to an impact of a given speed (velocity). While its easy to optimize one area of that curve when force is changed in one area some proportion of that force typically carries throughout the rest of the curve. In other words ...and heres the problem ...while you can design a shock to, say, provide excellent high speed control, you usually inadvertently end up adding too much force in the lower velocity ranges which can hurt handling or ride comfort.

Previous z06 shocks suffered from one particularly problematic area of their curve, the real world manifestation of which was abrupt body motion during rapid directational changes. To overcome this problem without creating new ones, Dave Hills team particularly Corvette Ride and Handling Development Engineer Mike Neal, worked closely with shock supplier Sachs to devise a way to alter specific areas of the curve without affection others.

To Neals absolute delight, much of the testing and development for the new shocks was done at Germany's famed Nurburgring.....

//

The corvette team knew they were on the correct path when they were able to lap the circuit in less than 8 minutes---a time precious few road cars in the world can equal--while actually improving ride quality...As it runed out Chevy's elegant yet simple solution was found in revising the shock valves in a way that raised control at both the low end and the high end of the curve while reducing control in the middle..at arrangement that flies in the face of traditional shock absorber wisdom.

The on the road seat of the pants result of the new valving is that it gives more control without making the car abrupt. In fact the car is less abrupt in its motions yet more controlled. In comparision testing at Gingerman Raceway, a 1.88 mile 11 turn circuit in south Haven, Michigan, the differences between last years z06 and the '04 model was somewhat startling.

[after the road tester from Sports Car INternational pulled off 1.30's at Gingerman RAceway in the 2004 Z06..he jumps in a 2003 Z06 for comparision of the changes made..]

Here's his review:

Feeling totally comfortable and reasonably confident. I zipped off int he '03 at what I thought was a moderate pace to begin with. I accelerated through the Turn ONe Apex, flew down to turn Two, Taped the brakes, turned in and started accelerating. There are some bumps in Turn One's braking area and turn in point and the car felt immediately different from the "04. I had just stepped out of it, but undoubtedly owing to more moderate speed the significance of that difference didn't really register. The difference didn't register at Turn Two either because , being a slightly uphill, increasing radius turn, this right hander is forgiving and fast. Turn Three was a different story however.

Turn Three is a constant radius, slightly downhill 140 degree right hander. Though it doesn't descend much, there's enough of a drop to get the car slightly light. Thats where I spun the Corvette. Though no damage was done and I got right back on line, it certainly was embarrassing moment. Suddenly, and ever so graphically, the shock improvement registered. Six or seven more laps in the '03 followed by another stint in the '04 effectely etched the change into my cerebellum.

Compared with the '03 , the 04 z06 allowed me to attack each corner more aggressively because the car was more stable goin in, exhibiting decisively less body movement. And because it was more stable going into the corner, it was hooked up better through the middle and coming out. The diminished impact of yaw and roll was particularly noticeable in quick , transient maneuvers and in those areas where the road surface was bumpy or less consistent. And all of this from innovative shock valving! Andy Pilgrim was the correct, the difference really is incredible.

Sal

 

[Goosemaster]

Thanks peeps.

I was wondering why everyone based it so much. Thanks.

 

[Salvador]

For your entertainment. Someone on the Z06 forum just made a cool compilation video of a few Corvette's.

Corvette Video

Sal