Question about 9/11 (the WTC elevators, specifically)

This month's Wired states that elevators were instrumental in the early stages of the WTC evacuations after the airplane strikes (the author states that the use of elevators saved approximately 2500 lives).

How did the elevators work if there was a gaping hole in the building? I assumed that the elevator cables were vaporized immediately when the plane hit and elevators were simply rendered useless.

If someone can explain this, I'd be very interested to know how this worked out. In a situation like 9/11, however, I believe that I'd have chosen the stairs.

 

[sharkeeper]

Elevator shafts have firewalls around them. The cables would not be vaporised instantly.

Oh and by firewalls I mean a wall that resists burning not something to filter IP traffic!

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

well, in most tall buildings, I would assume WTC as well, there are multiple shafts extending to different levels. One elevator might serve floors 1-30, another 30-50 and so on. It is possible that some shafts were not damaged. Also, some elevators are called traction elevators. They use rollers, not cables.

 

Originally posted by: Kvaerner Masa
Elevator shafts have firewalls around them. The cables would not be vaporised instantly.

Oh and by firewalls I mean a wall that resists burning not something to filter IP traffic!

But the explosions caused by the airplanes obliterated pretty much everything except the girders holding the building up.

Videos of the event show that the airplanes literally went right through the WTC buildings. I don't understand how an elevator cable or shaft could have survived.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: Kvaerner Masa
Elevator shafts have firewalls around them. The cables would not be vaporised instantly.

Oh and by firewalls I mean a wall that resists burning not something to filter IP traffic!

But the explosions caused by the airplanes obliterated pretty much everything except the girders holding the building up.

Videos of the event show that the airplanes literally went right through the WTC buildings. I don't understand how an elevator cable or shaft could have survived.

as I said, it is likely several shafts did not even extend to the floors hit. Or they were traction elevators. And to be exact, the floors were not instantly obliterated. The impact force cause the fireproofing on the steel to fail, which led to the extreme heat causing the steel to fail Structural steel fails very quickly under load when heat is applied, much faster in fact than wood timbers would. Even as the steel structure of the floor failed, it is possible that the masonry wall around the shaft, which has a minimum fire rating of 1 hour, might have survived long enough for the people to escape. The steel structure even at the impacted floor did not fail until just before the towers collapsed, that is what pulled the rest of the tower down was the collapse of the floors.

*edit*

Link

This link explains how the elevator equipment for express elevators housed on the 81st floor actually shielded one of the stairways from destruction. It also verifies that the WTC had a tiered elevator system, with multiple shafts serving different floors.

 

[DannyBoy]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: Kvaerner Masa
Elevator shafts have firewalls around them. The cables would not be vaporised instantly.

Oh and by firewalls I mean a wall that resists burning not something to filter IP traffic!

But the explosions caused by the airplanes obliterated pretty much everything except the girders holding the building up.

Videos of the event show that the airplanes literally went right through the WTC buildings. I don't understand how an elevator cable or shaft could have survived.

as I said, it is likely several shafts did not even extend to the floors hit. Or they were traction elevators. And to be exact, the floors were not instantly obliterated. The impact force cause the fireproofing on the steel to fail, which led to the extreme heat causing the steel to fail Structural steel fails very quickly under load when heat is applied, much faster in fact than wood timbers would. Even as the steel structure of the floor failed, it is possible that the masonry wall around the shaft, which has a minimum fire rating of 1 hour, might have survived long enough for the people to escape. The steel structure even at the impacted floor did not fail until just before the towers collapsed, that is what pulled the rest of the tower down was the collapse of the floors.

The twin towers had full length elevator shafts going from floors 1-102 or something, IIRC.

 

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: Kvaerner Masa
Elevator shafts have firewalls around them. The cables would not be vaporised instantly.

Oh and by firewalls I mean a wall that resists burning not something to filter IP traffic!

But the explosions caused by the airplanes obliterated pretty much everything except the girders holding the building up.

Videos of the event show that the airplanes literally went right through the WTC buildings. I don't understand how an elevator cable or shaft could have survived.

as I said, it is likely several shafts did not even extend to the floors hit. Or they were traction elevators. And to be exact, the floors were not instantly obliterated. The impact force cause the fireproofing on the steel to fail, which led to the extreme heat causing the steel to fail Structural steel fails very quickly under load when heat is applied, much faster in fact than wood timbers would. Even as the steel structure of the floor failed, it is possible that the masonry wall around the shaft, which has a minimum fire rating of 1 hour, might have survived long enough for the people to escape. The steel structure even at the impacted floor did not fail until just before the towers collapsed, that is what pulled the rest of the tower down was the collapse of the floors.

Excellent explanation, thanks. The idea of traction elevators never even occurred to me. Seems like it'd be a neat (and safe) idea.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: DnaJ

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: Kvaerner Masa
Elevator shafts have firewalls around them. The cables would not be vaporised instantly.

Oh and by firewalls I mean a wall that resists burning not something to filter IP traffic!

But the explosions caused by the airplanes obliterated pretty much everything except the girders holding the building up.

Videos of the event show that the airplanes literally went right through the WTC buildings. I don't understand how an elevator cable or shaft could have survived.

as I said, it is likely several shafts did not even extend to the floors hit. Or they were traction elevators. And to be exact, the floors were not instantly obliterated. The impact force cause the fireproofing on the steel to fail, which led to the extreme heat causing the steel to fail Structural steel fails very quickly under load when heat is applied, much faster in fact than wood timbers would. Even as the steel structure of the floor failed, it is possible that the masonry wall around the shaft, which has a minimum fire rating of 1 hour, might have survived long enough for the people to escape. The steel structure even at the impacted floor did not fail until just before the towers collapsed, that is what pulled the rest of the tower down was the collapse of the floors.

The twin towers had full length elevator shafts going from floors 1-102 or something, IIRC.

wrong,

it had both express serving upper floors and local shafts serving the more popular intermediate floors.

Link

This link has a great diagram showing the elevator system, and what shafts served which floors

Link

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: Kvaerner Masa
Elevator shafts have firewalls around them. The cables would not be vaporised instantly.

Oh and by firewalls I mean a wall that resists burning not something to filter IP traffic!

But the explosions caused by the airplanes obliterated pretty much everything except the girders holding the building up.

Videos of the event show that the airplanes literally went right through the WTC buildings. I don't understand how an elevator cable or shaft could have survived.

as I said, it is likely several shafts did not even extend to the floors hit. Or they were traction elevators. And to be exact, the floors were not instantly obliterated. The impact force cause the fireproofing on the steel to fail, which led to the extreme heat causing the steel to fail Structural steel fails very quickly under load when heat is applied, much faster in fact than wood timbers would. Even as the steel structure of the floor failed, it is possible that the masonry wall around the shaft, which has a minimum fire rating of 1 hour, might have survived long enough for the people to escape. The steel structure even at the impacted floor did not fail until just before the towers collapsed, that is what pulled the rest of the tower down was the collapse of the floors.

Excellent explanation, thanks. The idea of traction elevators never even occurred to me. Seems like it'd be a neat (and safe) idea.

You might also be surprised to know many high-rise buildings use double-decker elevators, with upper and lower floors serving more than one floor at a time...

 

[sygyzy]

I am surprised to read this, though it makes sense. One sad part about the WTC evac was there were stairwells on opposite ends of floors. Some went down a few flights, then stopped (gaping hole, fire, nowhere to go). Others made it all the way down. Well it luck and proxmity that decided which you chose. And one you chose, you had to stick to it. There was not enough time to turn around. Talk about luck.

 

[sharkeeper]

Videos of the event show that the airplanes literally went right through the WTC buildings. I don't understand how an elevator cable or shaft could have survived.

What video?

The only video shows what happened from the ground far away.

You would be surprised what actually happens on the inside during a catastrophic event. This is why the search for survivors will go on for days if needed. If we just assumed that nobody could survive that by what we see from the outside a lot of people that are rescued would be lost.

 

Originally posted by: Kvaerner Masa

Videos of the event show that the airplanes literally went right through the WTC buildings. I don't understand how an elevator cable or shaft could have survived.

What video?

The only video shows what happened from the ground far away.

You would be surprised what actually happens on the inside during a catastrophic event. This is why the search for survivors will go on for days if needed. If we just assumed that nobody could survive that by what we see from the outside a lot of people that are rescued would be lost.

From the ground, you can see: a) the airplane fly into the building, and b) the huge explosion of metal, fire, people and papers from the other side of the building, which was penetrated by the airplane.

 

[DannyBoy]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: DnaJ

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: Kvaerner Masa
Elevator shafts have firewalls around them. The cables would not be vaporised instantly.

Oh and by firewalls I mean a wall that resists burning not something to filter IP traffic!

But the explosions caused by the airplanes obliterated pretty much everything except the girders holding the building up.

Videos of the event show that the airplanes literally went right through the WTC buildings. I don't understand how an elevator cable or shaft could have survived.

as I said, it is likely several shafts did not even extend to the floors hit. Or they were traction elevators. And to be exact, the floors were not instantly obliterated. The impact force cause the fireproofing on the steel to fail, which led to the extreme heat causing the steel to fail Structural steel fails very quickly under load when heat is applied, much faster in fact than wood timbers would. Even as the steel structure of the floor failed, it is possible that the masonry wall around the shaft, which has a minimum fire rating of 1 hour, might have survived long enough for the people to escape. The steel structure even at the impacted floor did not fail until just before the towers collapsed, that is what pulled the rest of the tower down was the collapse of the floors.

The twin towers had full length elevator shafts going from floors 1-102 or something, IIRC.

wrong,

it had both express serving upper floors and local shafts serving the more popular intermediate floors.

Link

This link has a great diagram showing the elevator system, and what shafts served which floors

Link

I didn't know it had smaller lifts when I was there, the only ones I remember were every 30 floors it stopped or so.

Incredible feeling going up so fast.

 

[sharkeeper]

From the ground, you can see: a) the airplane fly into the building, and b) the huge explosion of metal, fire, people and papers from the other side of the building, which was penetrated by the airplane.

That doesn't mean jack sh!t!

Sigh.

I really hope you never intend to be in a rescue squad!

Why do you think firefighters risk their backs every single day to find people? Yes many times there will be flames shooting out windows on the floor where screaming and crying relatives and friends say their father, sister, friend, etc. is.

How would you feel if they say oh well the fire is too hot, no sense in going in there nobody can survive that!

 

Originally posted by: Kvaerner Masa

From the ground, you can see: a) the airplane fly into the building, and b) the huge explosion of metal, fire, people and papers from the other side of the building, which was penetrated by the airplane.

That doesn't mean jack sh!t!

Sigh.

I really hope you never intend to be in a rescue squad!

Why do you think firefighters risk their backs every single day to find people? Yes many times there will be flames shooting out windows on the floor where screaming and crying relatives and friends say their father, sister, friend, etc. is.

How would you feel if they say oh well the fire is too hot, no sense in going in there nobody can survive that!

I didn't say that the building was obliterated. I just said that I found it hard to believe that elevator shafts and cables could survive such an impact.

I really hope you never intend to be a reading comprehension teacher.

 

[SilentZero]

They were magic elevators resistant to all.

 

[sharkeeper]

I didn't say that the building was obliterated. I just said that I found it hard to believe that elevator shafts and cables could survive such an impact.

Once again you cannot deduce ANYTHING that goes on by watching what you see on the tube! You do realise the cables and hoistways are nowhere near the outside of the building, right?

I really hope you never intend to be a reading comprehension teacher.

:roll:

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: Kvaerner Masa

Videos of the event show that the airplanes literally went right through the WTC buildings. I don't understand how an elevator cable or shaft could have survived.

What video?

The only video shows what happened from the ground far away.

You would be surprised what actually happens on the inside during a catastrophic event. This is why the search for survivors will go on for days if needed. If we just assumed that nobody could survive that by what we see from the outside a lot of people that are rescued would be lost.

From the ground, you can see: a) the airplane fly into the building, and b) the huge explosion of metal, fire, people and papers from the other side of the building, which was penetrated by the airplane.

That doesn't mean the explosion penetrated the elevator shafts within the building, though...the blast could have gone around.

 

[CRXican]

I'm surprised this thread got so technical. The planes didn't cut through the entire building, they exploded, damaging some of the internal structure.

If you've ever been in any building like that you'd know the elevators are on the interior of the building, the planes obviously didn't reach that far inside.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

the lifts and stairs were all located in the middle of the building for open plan offices, with floors extending from the middle to the outer skeleton of the building

the planes pretty much blocked that main life line off, or blocked access to it. then of course as the fire began to melt the flimsy truss' supporting the floors ( ie spanning across from the middle to the outer wall) the floors collapsed, and strength lost, the building was held up by a damaged core and and exoskeleton....once too many floors failed it couldnt hold its own weight and collapsed demolition style

the building didnt have one big lift shaft, it was too tall, it had lifts that went so far, then another set of lifts to go abit further etc

so lifts below the crash sites could still work