Quesrion about Do-it-yourself

[tyl998]

Hi all! I'm pretty new to the DIY scene, and I'm thinking about putting together my own system in the future. I'm not asking for suggestions right this moment since I'll need money and a job before I can start . I dunno when that'll be,

Not sure if I should ask it in this part of the forums, but I just wanted to know a bit about the state of the DIY scene right now. From the reading I've done, it loos like that less and less people are buying desktops due to the many advantages of laptops. And unless I'm wrong, you can't really mod or upgrade laptops very easily. Companies love the fact that workers can take their work home, becoming even more productive worker bees. People who only need computing for email and wbe browsing probably don't care about modding their own computers.

So...are desktops really becoming less and less popular? Is the DIY market taking up bigger and bigger shares of the desktop market as a whole because many non-DIY/casual users just go with a laptop? and me myself, I'm a gamer. That's why I'm interested in benchmarks and performance from the parts I'll eventually buy. A lotta talk around here looks to be aimed at building a good gaming machibe. Who else is into the DIY scene really? Graphics designers? Maybe people who really care about their computers making zero noise?

If this is the wrong part of the forums to ask these questions, please move it elsewhere. Thanks!

 

[RavenSEAL]

Desktop popularity won't die for a while. Very few laptops pack the power of a mid-end desktop. As far as the DIY scene, its stronger than ever. Building a computer is not as difficult as people make it sound. Google is your friend, you'll find millions of hit under .1 second. There are THOUSANDS of guides out there. As to which is the best, i can't say. I built my PC without one. I'm big on logic lol.

 

[tyl998]

I don't think I can game on my laptop either, but what I mean is it feels like the people that used to get low-end desktops just end up switching over to laptops. A.K.A the laptop market is eating into the desktop market, possibly making the companies that focus on desktop parts not be as profitable and hence not being able to concentrate on giving us as much selections as before?

I'm sure that as long as there are hardcore gamers there will be a desktop scene. I'm just wondering who else also cares about performance.

 

[Axon]

Well, most work computers typically require nothing more than MS Office, whatever customized software, and the internet. Thus, basically any value modern-day laptop processor can easily do the job. So in that sense, laptops will continue to be a popular option.

Enthusiasts are usually gamers, benchmark fiends, or big time CPU/GPU cycle crunchers (thinking folding or encoding; usually on a scale a single user can't grasp until he sees it for himself). Personally, I could not live on a laptop alone; there is too little storage, too little GPU horsepower, and generally not enough oomph. Oh, and with the screen I use with my desktop, I'd probably have to carry around a 13 lb laptop to be equal.

Anyway, I don't know the numbers, but if you think the desktop market is dying, that's hardly the case. DIY scene is as robust as it has been since 2000, back when I started.

 

[tyl998]

DIY scene is as robust as it has been since 2000, back when I started.

I am happy to hear that. Is that based on the people you've talked to, your fellow forumites here, or...?

I've been doing a bit of googling but haven't been able to find numbers on the number or percentage pf DIY people in the market. I am hooing that it has at least remained constant like you said.

What's folding/encoding btw?

 

[RavenSEAL]

I am happy to hear that. Is that based on the people you've talked to, your fellow forumites here, or...?

I've been doing a bit of googling but haven't been able to find numbers on the number or percentage pf DIY people in the market. I am hooing that it has at least remained constant like you said.

What's folding/encoding btw?

Personally, statistics are pointless, just get out there and built it. I cant tell you how many times my friends have been shocked at how i spent $500 USD on a computer that is better than their $800 dollar HP, $700 dell. Hell, i know people that buy Alienware laptops and have to walk around with coolers all the time because it burns their laps.

As far as Folding...i'm not very informed at to what it is, but at times i run Folding@Home on my PS3 just for the heck of it, i'd guess F@H is the most popular of these projects. Here is more info if you're interested. What i know, is that the software takes each of your CPUs/GPUs and run certain scenarios in order to predict patterns, occurrences, changes etc.

http://folding.stanford.edu/

If i'm not wrong, F@H has something to do with proteins and certain diseases.

 

[Axon]

What's folding/encoding btw?

Distributed computing. http://folding.stanford.edu/ or http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/. Different projects, similar idea.

 

[mfenn]

The market share numbers don't lie, laptops have been outselling desktops for a while now. Most people simply don't need any more. I think that there will always be a subset of people that need/want desktops though.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

old news. desktops have been dead for awhile now. the self builders are even more rare.

companies like SiS, cyrix, VIA, 3dfx, matrox, 3com and more recently maxtor, Abit, BFG, epox, pulled out of the market years ago. nvidia barely has any life left in the motherboard market, and is losing badly to ATi in the video card race, and even ATi itself will cease to exist at the end of 2010.
AMD is getting ass raped by intel quarter after quarter so we're going to be down to 1 cpu maker.

even OEM's like compaq and emachines are now gone.

building your own PC is going the way of the dodo with all the hardware manufacturers pulling the plug.
PC's themselves are not going to be around much longer. apple is going to take over the home computing segment with iMac's and ipads in 5-10 years.

you are about 3 years too late to the party.

 

[Agnostos Insania]

BlahBlahYouToo the Doomsayer aside, the DIY computer "market" is essentially the same as it has been. We're not the bulk of consumers and never have been.
Droids, iPads and other such things probably encroach more into laptop territory than laptops encroach into desktop territory, at least for the time being.

 

[Davidh373]

Ok, you can upgrade storage, RAM and very rarely the Graphics card in a lappy (By Rarely I mean it has to be an ungodly expensive laptop.)

For a desktop equivalent laptop, you'd have to look to Eurocom. They make laptops with i7 9xx series processors and chipsets. Another thing I notice is they are right next to Apple in price for their laptops, and have twice the performance. You could look to Dell's
"Workstation Replacements" but these still have laptop parts and are normally in the $4000+ range.

http://www.eurocom.com/

As for do it yourself, for premium performance desktops there is no beating it. You get exactly what you want for cheaper than HP or Dell without their penny pinching. An $800 computer would cost you around $1100-$1200 if not a little more, and when you start getting into the $1200+ range for custom built you start getting into the $2000+ range with HP or Dell. Don't even get me started on Apple...

I know i'm probably going to get hated on for this, but your best bet for a high performance laptop is either Alienware or Eurocom. You just can't really build a laptop and remain cost effective :/. My next laptop is Eurocom (maybe Alienware if I feel like emtying my pockets...), my new desktops to come will all be custom.

 

[Slugbait]

desktops have been dead for awhile now.

Not sure where some of you people are getting your information. For example, according to NPD digital downloads for PC gaming grew so much that it almost equaled B&M sales, for a total of 45 million units sold just in the U.S. http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_100721.html. Of course, PC gaming is MUCH more pervasive in other countries, and they don't count pirates in their statistics.

According to JPR, 46% of dollars spent on computer gaming hardware was "Enthusiast class" http://jonpeddie.com/press-releases...gaming-hardware-market-and-calculates-worldw/

JPR has just released a Global Market Analysis for Do-It-Yourself (DIY) PC builds and PC upgrades. The market is significant with approximately $10.4 billion in sales annually

So, no matter whose PC or discrete GPU numbers you use, PCs capable of gaming clearly outsold consoles in 2009.

A few months ago, I read an article about how console hardware sales dropped by about 13% in 2009, while PC gaming hardware increased by something like $2B over the previous year. I think that was also JPR, but can't find the story.

Apple can't "take over" if the vast majority of games are still being written for Windows.

And personally, I haven't been so excited about Windows gaming since I hooked up to my new P54G25 and rocked HL2 at 1920x1080 with all the eye-candy turned up...

Yeah, something's dead around here...but it ain't desktops.

 

[piasabird]

What you should know is big business buys a lot of desktops. They buy a lot of Laptops also. It probably depends what kind of business you look at and what kind of workers you are looking at. It is a shure indication that many businesses are not doing well if they are not purchasing desktops.

I work at a college and we use more desktops than laptops both for customer service and student classrooms and labs. Some other businesses may use a different business model.

I think maybe there are fewer computer gamers also.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

What you should know is big business buys a lot of desktops. They buy a lot of Laptops also. It probably depends what kind of business you look at and what kind of workers you are looking at. It is a shure indication that many businesses are not doing well if they are not purchasing desktops.

I work at a college and we use more desktops than laptops both for customer service and student classrooms and labs. Some other businesses may use a different business model.

I think maybe there are fewer computer gamers also.

nope. i work in big business.
everyone is going dumb terminals with blades or citrix servers in the backend.
like i stated earlier, desktops are a dying breed.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Not sure where some of you people are getting your information. For example, according to NPD digital downloads for PC gaming grew so much that it almost equaled B&M sales, for a total of 45 million units sold just in the U.S. http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_100721.html. Of course, PC gaming is MUCH more pervasive in other countries, and they don't count pirates in their statistics.

According to JPR, 46% of dollars spent on computer gaming hardware was "Enthusiast class" http://jonpeddie.com/press-releases...gaming-hardware-market-and-calculates-worldw/



A few months ago, I read an article about how console hardware sales dropped by about 13% in 2009, while PC gaming hardware increased by something like $2B over the previous year. I think that was also JPR, but can't find the story.

Apple can't "take over" if the vast majority of games are still being written for Windows.

And personally, I haven't been so excited about Windows gaming since I hooked up to my new P54G25 and rocked HL2 at 1920x1080 with all the eye-candy turned up...

Yeah, something's dead around here...but it ain't desktops.

i admit it's anecdotal, but i work very intimately in the enterprise world and i go by what i see.

 

[RavenSEAL]

Computer manufacturers are losing money...i mean...seriously...you'd have to be an idiot to not be able to plug cable a into port a and insert card #1 on slot #1, then plug this cable into that slot. Making your own computer stopped being difficult in like 2002 lol.

 

[Slugbait]

i work very intimately in the enterprise world and i go by what i see.

So do I, and I go by indisputable numbers gathered by highly respected market research firms...it's a bit more accurate than your personal opinion.

But I digress...let's look at some other falsehoods you're spreading to some poor kid with fewer than a dozen posts:

even OEM's like compaq and emachines are now gone

You should tell their webmasters. Both compaq.com and emachines.com are still trying to sell computers to people.

companies like SiS, cyrix, VIA, 3dfx, matrox, 3com and more recently maxtor, Abit, BFG, epox, pulled out of the market years ago.

SiS not only still make mobo chipsets, they also make chipsets for HDTVs and SSDs. VIA is still kicking around. Matrox is very much alive, doing graphics, imaging and video. Not only did 3com not pull out of the market years ago, but HP's acquisition was finalized only a few months ago. Same with Maxtor, they became a subsidiary of Seagate...but that wasn't recently, it was years ago.

nvidia barely has any life left in the motherboard market...

As I understand it, ION still has some life left in it.

...and is losing badly to ATi in the video card race...

No, they're not. And from what I recall, Quadro has been trumping FireGL for nearly a decade.

and even ATi itself will cease to exist at the end of 2010

If nVidia is losing badly to ATi, why would ATi suddenly quit? Seems everybody else knows that only the name is going away, not the silicon or the drivers.

AMD is getting ass raped by intel quarter after quarter so we're going to be down to 1 cpu maker

For pete's sake, people have been saying this since the race to 1 gigahertz.

the self builders are even more rare...building your own PC is going the way of the dodo

Welcome to Anandtech. Click around, enjoy your stay...

 

[tyl998]

Not sure where some of you people are getting your information. For example, according to NPD digital downloads for PC gaming grew so much that it almost equaled B&M sales, for a total of 45 million units sold just in the U.S. http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_100721.html. Of course, PC gaming is MUCH more pervasive in other countries, and they don't count pirates in their statistics.

According to JPR, 46% of dollars spent on computer gaming hardware was "Enthusiast class" http://jonpeddie.com/press-releases...gaming-hardware-market-and-calculates-worldw/



A few months ago, I read an article about how console hardware sales dropped by about 13% in 2009, while PC gaming hardware increased by something like $2B over the previous year. I think that was also JPR, but can't find the story.

Apple can't "take over" if the vast majority of games are still being written for Windows.

And personally, I haven't been so excited about Windows gaming since I hooked up to my new P54G25 and rocked HL2 at 1920x1080 with all the eye-candy turned up...

Yeah, something's dead around here...but it ain't desktops.

Yes! this is the kind of information I'm looking for. If only there were a way to access the analysis on the DIY market without having to pay for it Hmm...46% of dollar spent? But Enthusiast-level equipment is much more expensive, so the actual number of units sold is probably nowhere near 46% of the market, but still, good to know the gamer market is profitable.

AMD is getting ass raped by intel quarter after quarter so we're going to be down to 1 cpu maker

I thought since Intel settled with the FTC AMD came out a big winner and that the problems between the two companies have lessened dramatically?

I read somewhere (can't find the article right now) that as of late 2009, Desktop sales only comprised about 23% of total computer unit sales, and desktop sales were either flat or fell slightly comparing 2008 and 2009. But if the gaming profits keep increasing, this means that many people find the laptop enough for their uses, and gamers are getting a bigger and bigger sliceof the remaining market. I guess that's good news right? Companies will want to design more stuff specifically for us?

 

[Davidh373]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugbait
Not sure where some of you people are getting your information. For example, according to NPD digital downloads for PC gaming grew so much that it almost equaled B&M sales, for a total of 45 million units sold just in the U.S. http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_100721.html. Of course, PC gaming is MUCH more pervasive in other countries, and they don't count pirates in their statistics.

According to JPR, 46% of dollars spent on computer gaming hardware was "Enthusiast class" http://jonpeddie.com/press-releases/...ulates-worldw/



A few months ago, I read an article about how console hardware sales dropped by about 13% in 2009, while PC gaming hardware increased by something like $2B over the previous year. I think that was also JPR, but can't find the story.

Apple can't "take over" if the vast majority of games are still being written for Windows.

And personally, I haven't been so excited about Windows gaming since I hooked up to my new P54G25 and rocked HL2 at 1920x1080 with all the eye-candy turned up...

Yeah, something's dead around here...but it ain't desktops.
Yes! this is the kind of information I'm looking for. If only there were a way to access the analysis on the DIY market without having to pay for it Hmm...46% of dollar spent? But Enthusiast-level equipment is much more expensive, so the actual number of units sold is probably nowhere near 46% of the market, but still, good to know the gamer market is profitable.

So... I'm rather confused now... Do you want to know the best thing to do as a gamer or do you want to follow the masses like a sheep? What is the relevance of stated information in your decision making process?

It is pretty simple tyl998, if you want sub-par gaming performance for your money get a Manufacturer computer, if you want portable performance and get a little more out of your money (but not much) get a laptop. If you have a low budget and still want to get good performance or you want enthusiast performance you custom build.

$550 is where the value of custom building starts and it ends when you get up to the $5000+ mark. Anything less or greater and you'd buy a manufacturer desktop, anything portable is higher cost but you don't have any choice except for the manufacturer you buy from.

Unless you are some kind of marketing researcher or something, why does market statistics matter to you? You are in the market for what will be most effective for YOU, not everyone else.

I thought since Intel settled with the FTC AMD came out a big winner and that the problems between the two companies have lessened dramatically?

intel is outselling them. If you go to a Best Buy or Wallmart of wherever might want to sell you a computer, you will notice the majority of Dells, HPs, and Gateways will have intel chipsets. The other area Intel is winning out in would be the Enthusiast market. They have the fastest chips out there. There is my story off the top of my head, I guarantee you can research things all day and find my observations transition well into statistics, but I haven't done one bit of research. Apparently the FTC thing was about them using a shady reverse engineering process. I could really care less though as long as a better product comes out of it.

Again, Doing sales research doesn't really help the individual in choosing what kind of computer to get, it's up to personal preferences.

EDIT: 500th POST!


EDIT 2: to answer your question about who else likes DIY, 3D and 2D artists, Video Editors, Offices. Anyone who wants to save money really. The only reason I could see someone not wanting to build is because 1, they are afraid of not having tech support, 2, they arebuying computers on an extremely large scale (Like M$ buying 1200 units to outfit a building or something)