Queen Elizabeth left out of D-Day ceremonies.

[mugs]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Where did this, "No such thing as French Soldiers after 1941. France surrendered as a country.", come from?

Maybe some people need a history review, Charles DeGaulle and quite a few French soldiers got out and made it to England before Hitler took over. And made himself a pain in the allied neck with his incessant demands. And he went on to head the post ww2 French Government.

Poland also fell during the WW2 but enough poles got to England to form quite an elite fighting force.

There was no French government or Polish government, so by definition, any one fighting as French were not soldiers but enemy combatants basically. They had no equipment that was their own; they relied completely on 3rd party hardware. The French/Poles were the 40s equivalent of Hizbollah or Hamas.

You're splitting hairs on whether or not there were French soldiers. Are you trying to make a point about our classification of "terr'ists"? Just come out with it (or better, start another thread about it since it doesn't really belong in this one).

FWIW, there was a French government during World War II. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vichy_France

 

[Merithynos]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Where did this, "No such thing as French Soldiers after 1941. France surrendered as a country.", come from?

Maybe some people need a history review, Charles DeGaulle and quite a few French soldiers got out and made it to England before Hitler took over. And made himself a pain in the allied neck with his incessant demands. And he went on to head the post ww2 French Government.

Poland also fell during the WW2 but enough poles got to England to form quite an elite fighting force.

There was no French government or Polish government, so by definition, any one fighting as French were not soldiers but enemy combatants basically. They had no equipment that was their own; they relied completely on 3rd party hardware. The French/Poles were the 40s equivalent of Hizbollah or Hamas.

Lemon is right. While France did surrender and sign an armistice agreement with Germany, the country was not annexed by Germany, but instead had it's government reconstituted under Marshall Petain. This was the "Vichy France" often referred to in history texts, and the majority of the allied governments recognized Petain's government as the legitimate government of France (and of France's colonial holdings elsewhere). The only portion of France directly administered by Germany was the Alsace-Lorraine region, which had been a point of contention for centuries between the two countries.

While you could certainly draw parallels between Hezbollah and Hamas to the various resistance movements in German-occupied countries, claiming the largely extant French military forces, both Vichy and Free French, or even the reconstituted units of the Polish government-in-exile, to be functionally equivalent to Hizbollah or Hamas is a silly notion at best.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: bbdub333
Can't wait to hear Obama apologize for the killing of so many innocent Germans that day.

Troll.

Careful... That's winnar's, I mean, Barry Sotero's big brother. Or FNE. I get them confused.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I had seen this link on the internet today, but to per say refer to the Queen as a head of State is iffy at best. But I can't blame the Queen for feeling miffed, but its somewhat unclear whose screw up this is. The invitation for Great Britain to participate went through normal diplomatic channels, and as far as I can see, the screw up in not inviting the Queen rests with the British PM Gordon Brown.

But in terms of Obama, the onus may be on him to find some way to repair the blunder in some way. Maybe he will cede Crawford Texas back to the British. Or maybe Kennebunkport.

No, she is the head of state of the UK. She's still heavily involved, although doesnt use her power. She has weekly briefings with the PM and other government officials.

To say shes the head of state of the other 15 countries she's queen of would be iffy, but she is the head of state of the UK.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I had seen this link on the internet today, but to per say refer to the Queen as a head of State is iffy at best. But I can't blame the Queen for feeling miffed, but its somewhat unclear whose screw up this is. The invitation for Great Britain to participate went through normal diplomatic channels, and as far as I can see, the screw up in not inviting the Queen rests with the British PM Gordon Brown.

But in terms of Obama, the onus may be on him to find some way to repair the blunder in some way. Maybe he will cede Crawford Texas back to the British. Or maybe Kennebunkport.

No, she is the head of state of the UK. She's still heavily involved, although doesnt use her power. She has weekly briefings with the PM and other government officials.

To say shes the head of state of the other 15 countries she's queen of would be iffy, but she is the head of state of the UK.

And if the documentaries The Monarchy are accurate she really works hard at it. She has a schedule that would make an 18 year old Marine think of deserting.

 

[Infohawk]

I read somewhere that this was basically the British PM's failure to set it up with the Queen. I don't like the monarchy but why not just still have her come. How hard could it really be to set up?

Of course D-Day was largely a Anglo-American accomplishment, but I'm sure the French resistance helped inland from the beaches. (And let's not forget the French role in our revolution but I guess a lot of Americans like being considered like the oafish obnoxious cousin.) Let's not pretend the Queen was storming the shores or anything like that.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
I read somewhere that this was basically the British PM's failure to set it up with the Queen. I don't like the monarchy but why not just still have her come. How hard could it really be to set up?

Of course D-Day was largely a Anglo-American accomplishment, but I'm sure the French resistance helped inland from the beaches. (And let's not forget the French role in our revolution but I guess a lot of Americans like being considered like the oafish obnoxious cousin.) Let's not pretend the Queen was storming the shores or anything like that.

Basically, it proves the point that Gordon Brown is a complete dumb ass.

 

[biggestmuff]

Wait a sec, she was 13 when WWII began. She didn't join the Women's Auxiliary Territorial Service until sometime in 1945, the year in which the war ended. What was she doing? Changing tires in the Windsor garage?

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: biggestmuff
Wait a sec, she was 13 when WWII began. She didn't join the Women's Auxiliary Territorial Service until sometime in 1945, the year in which the war ended. What was she doing? Changing tires in the Windsor garage?

Eighteen was the age to join.
She trained as a driver and mechanic, drove a military truck, and rose to the rank of Junior Commander. She is, at present, "the only living head of state who served in uniform during World War II".

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: Merithynos

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Where did this, "No such thing as French Soldiers after 1941. France surrendered as a country.", come from?

Maybe some people need a history review, Charles DeGaulle and quite a few French soldiers got out and made it to England before Hitler took over. And made himself a pain in the allied neck with his incessant demands. And he went on to head the post ww2 French Government.

Poland also fell during the WW2 but enough poles got to England to form quite an elite fighting force.

There was no French government or Polish government, so by definition, any one fighting as French were not soldiers but enemy combatants basically. They had no equipment that was their own; they relied completely on 3rd party hardware. The French/Poles were the 40s equivalent of Hizbollah or Hamas.

Lemon is right. While France did surrender and sign an armistice agreement with Germany, the country was not annexed by Germany, but instead had it's government reconstituted under Marshall Petain. This was the "Vichy France" often referred to in history texts, and the majority of the allied governments recognized Petain's government as the legitimate government of France (and of France's colonial holdings elsewhere). The only portion of France directly administered by Germany was the Alsace-Lorraine region, which had been a point of contention for centuries between the two countries.

While you could certainly draw parallels between Hezbollah and Hamas to the various resistance movements in German-occupied countries, claiming the largely extant French military forces, both Vichy and Free French, or even the reconstituted units of the Polish government-in-exile, to be functionally equivalent to Hizbollah or Hamas is a silly notion at best.

But they were non-government entities. Vichy France never declared war on Germany.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: Merithynos

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Where did this, "No such thing as French Soldiers after 1941. France surrendered as a country.", come from?

Maybe some people need a history review, Charles DeGaulle and quite a few French soldiers got out and made it to England before Hitler took over. And made himself a pain in the allied neck with his incessant demands. And he went on to head the post ww2 French Government.

Poland also fell during the WW2 but enough poles got to England to form quite an elite fighting force.

There was no French government or Polish government, so by definition, any one fighting as French were not soldiers but enemy combatants basically. They had no equipment that was their own; they relied completely on 3rd party hardware. The French/Poles were the 40s equivalent of Hizbollah or Hamas.

Lemon is right. While France did surrender and sign an armistice agreement with Germany, the country was not annexed by Germany, but instead had it's government reconstituted under Marshall Petain. This was the "Vichy France" often referred to in history texts, and the majority of the allied governments recognized Petain's government as the legitimate government of France (and of France's colonial holdings elsewhere). The only portion of France directly administered by Germany was the Alsace-Lorraine region, which had been a point of contention for centuries between the two countries.

While you could certainly draw parallels between Hezbollah and Hamas to the various resistance movements in German-occupied countries, claiming the largely extant French military forces, both Vichy and Free French, or even the reconstituted units of the Polish government-in-exile, to be functionally equivalent to Hizbollah or Hamas is a silly notion at best.

But they were non-government entities. Vichy France never declared war on Germany.

They were too busy fighting everyone BUT the Nazis!

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: Merithynos


Lemon is right. While France did surrender and sign an armistice agreement with Germany, the country was not annexed by Germany, but instead had it's government reconstituted under Marshall Petain. This was the "Vichy France" often referred to in history texts, and the majority of the allied governments recognized Petain's government as the legitimate government of France

*False*.



(and of France's colonial holdings elsewhere). The only portion of France directly administered by Germany was the Alsace-Lorraine region

*Not really true, Vichy was a puppet government.*

, which had been a point of contention for centuries between the two countries.

While you could certainly draw parallels between Hezbollah and Hamas to the various resistance movements in German-occupied countries, claiming the largely extant French military forces, both Vichy and Free French, or even the reconstituted units of the Polish government-in-exile, to be functionally equivalent to Hizbollah or Hamas is a silly notion at best.

Petain was never recognized as the legitimate leader of the French people by the Allies.

Germany controlled the majority of French territory, including the entire Atlantic and Channel coasts. Yes, Vichy had "civil jurisdiction" over these areas, but they were simply a puppet of the Nazi's.