Quebec Language: No English?

[Linflas]

Ahh, ok. The mere fact that you were attempting to use their language does show your good intentions! Sorry you got an asshole.

The francophones in Quebec feel their language is under cultural siege from the overall majority of English speaking Canadians. It's not completely unlike how many Americans feel about Hispanics here.

For others now about to post in high dudgeon, please take note that I said, "not completely unlike", k?

Also, small side note, but I believe you meant "offhanded" and not "underhanded" in your OP.

Actually there is very little similarity between Spanish in the US and French in Quebec. Essentially what French speaking Quebec demands is that the entire country of Canada be officially bilingual while reserving unto themselves the right to be uni-lingual. They are so determined to do this that when the Canadian Supreme Court declared part of Bill 101 to be contrary to the Canadian Charter Quebec exercised the not withstanding clause of that charter to exempt themselves from the ruling (since then they have changed the law to come into compliance with the ruling). The funny thing viewing all this from my outsider perspective is that the French language managed to survive 200 years of official neglect and outright hostility up until the emergence of the PQ in the 1960's and the eventual recognition of French as one of the 2 official languages of Canada yet somehow that acceptance doomed it to extinction unless extraordinary measures such as the language laws were put into effect in Quebec to protect it.

Aikouka - The separatist movement took a big hit in the last election, IIRC the Bloc Quebecois lost all but a few seats they had previously held.

 

[Perknose]

Hmm, not sure. I think underhanded kind of fits, because it was more like a "shrouded" joke since I didn't use the typical joke indicator (emoticon).

Please look beyond the denotative dictionary definition and tell me what you would think if someone told you what you did to them was underhanded?

Outside of softball, the way we almost always use the word in English these days connotes a distinctively pejorative meaning of, basically, "unethical."

Your intended joke was not unethical.

And you really have to get beyond the oft times constricted denotative dictionary definitions of words in order to truly understand them.

Take my suggested substitute, "offhanded." The dictionary definition of "offhand" is "without premeditation or preparation."

Yet you would never say to someone who delivered a speech that was woefully unprepared, "Johnson, your speech was offhanded!"

This would be like going into an American/Indian restaurant and saying the spice level you desired was "meek."

Meek can mean the same thing as mild -- indeed "mild" is right there in the dictionary definition of meek -- but the two words are not properly used interchangeably in many instances.

Regarding "offhanded", it is its subtly more refined connotation of "on the fly" that marks its most proper use.

You made your joke on the fly. It was offhanded.

 

[shiner]

I was there for a week last fall. Didn't have many problems, though there were a couple of spots where the shopkeepers/wait staff had trouble with English and I don't speak French. Luckily my wife speaks passable French and was able get us through.

Somewhere along the border of Maine and Quebec there is probably still a frightened border guard. Dude acted like he was going to have an meltdown when he asked me if I had any firearms with me. I said no, then he asked if I owned any firearms, which I said yes. Then he asked how many. When I answered I think he thought I was there to invade.

 

[tokie]

Actually there is very little similarity between Spanish in the US and French in Quebec. Essentially what French speaking Quebec demands is that the entire country of Canada be officially bilingual while reserving unto themselves the right to be uni-lingual.

Not really. The desire is to protect French-language rights across the country for Francophones. You have the legal right to be offered federal government services in French or English. Obviously, in small communities in English-Canada, it becomes difficult. They are basically making sure that those services continue to be offered.

It goes both ways -- in Quebec, you have the right to have Federal services delivered in English. As for provincial (state) services, there is no right to be served in either official language.

 

[Aikouka]

Please look beyond the denotative dictionary definition and tell me what you would think if someone told you what you did to them was underhanded?

I know what you mean. I was actually considering putting in an edit about the negative connotation of underhanded, but decided not to. I think the reason why I wouldn't use offhand is that it wasn't really spur of the moment, and even if it was, that doesn't really describe the issue.

It was more of a problem of ambiguity of intent since it wasn't clear if I was being serious or not.

Oh well, not a huge deal... I agree that underhanded isn't a great word to describe it.

 

[Perknose]

Actually there is very little similarity between Spanish in the US and French in Quebec. Essentially what French speaking Quebec demands is that the entire country of Canada be officially bilingual while reserving unto themselves the right to be uni-lingual. They are so determined to do this that when the Canadian Supreme Court declared part of Bill 101 to be contrary to the Canadian Charter Quebec exercised the not withstanding clause of that charter to exempt themselves from the ruling (since then they have changed the law to come into compliance with the ruling). The funny thing viewing all this from my outsider perspective is that the French language managed to survive 200 years of official neglect and outright hostility up until the emergence of the PQ in the 1960's and the eventual recognition of French as one of the 2 official languages of Canada yet somehow that acceptance doomed it to extinction unless extraordinary measures such as the language laws were put into effect in Quebec to protect it.

Your reading comprehension is flawed, Linflas. Sigh, I knew this would happen despite my appended caveat.

This is what I said:

The francophones in Quebec feel their language is under cultural siege from the overall majority of English speaking Canadians. It's not completely unlike how many Americans feel about Hispanics here.

For others now about to post in high dudgeon, please take note that I said, "not completely unlike", k?

Note that I have bolded for emphasis the parts relevant for best reading comprehension.

What is "not completely unlike" how many of the Quebecois feeling French being under cultural siege from English is how many Americans feel English is now under cultural siege from Spanish. THAT'S exactly what I said, no more and no less. Got it?

Your rejoinder to me, "Actually there is very little similarity between Spanish in the US and French in Quebec" is another valid point but a side one which does not speak to what I said at all.

Hell, you even get the self same responses: LAWS and calls for laws to enforce the use of one language over the other.

 

[Perknose]

Dude acted like he was going to have an meltdown when he asked me if I had any firearms with me. I said no, then he asked if I owned any firearms, which I said yes. Then he asked how many. When I answered I think he thought I was there to invade.

Lol, you probably have a more extensive mechanized division housed in one of your out buildings than the entire Canadian army has. :biggrin:

 

[AznAnarchy99]

Lololololol, as a kid on vacation with my parents THAT was the EXACT disdainful impression of my father, who learned proper Parisian French from his French mother.

After some exchanges with the locals he exclaimed privately to us, "This is not French!"

Should of seen the faces of the people in Spain after my Mexican friends tried talking to them.

 

[Perknose]

Should of seen the faces of the people in Spain after my Mexican friends tried talking to them.

Lol, yeah! If anything, the differences are even more profound. I took Spanish in college, and afterwards ended up hitch-hiking across the country and ending up in LA.

I had these callow pretensions of being the grand American writer, so I though, "Good, here I am in the belly of the beast."

In a small, two story, Spanish style apartment house I lived in in Hollywood, two elderly Spanish ladies from Cuba lived next door. They'd hurriedly left after Castro came in, were obviously from the upper middle class, and probably had had all their property confiscated and couldn't bring much of whatever family money with them.

Neither spoke English, but my Spanish was still fresh in my mind then, so I used to talk with them. They spoke the formal Spanish of Spain, and it was MARKEDLY different from the Spanish spoken by the many Mexicans, et al, in LA.

Those two were the epitome of faded glory, always extremely proper yet very accepting and friendly towards me. Every time they emerged into the 90-100 degree heat, they were covered in heavy and obviously expensive and classy but dated formal wear, often including gloves!

Fascinating. I once came back from a couple of months hitch-hiking up and down the coast between LA and San Fran, and then in SF itself (good times!) It was spur of the moment, and I'd never intended to be away that long. I'd left with a woman but we'd parted ways (intended) in SF, and I'd come home alone.

It was a long tramp, and I didn't get to my LA apartment until about 2-3 am or so. I was exhausted, and I didn't have my key, but I thought my window was open and so I started to climb in.

In my exhaustion, I'd mistaken their window (next to mine) for mine! So, I'm starting to clamber in when I suddenly hear these two high pitched and extremely frightened female voices in very rapid Spanish.

I was too startled to reply in Spanish, so I just said in English, "Sorry, sorry, it's me, Dave!"

They immediately recognized my voice and completely and immediately settled down. These are the unintended benefits, the karma if you will, of making friends with your neighbors, even the unlikely ones.

But yeah, back on topic, the gulf between Spain's Spanish and what's spoken in South and Central America is huge. Indeed, dialect varies greatly through out our Southern hemisphere, and also, dialect and pronunciation varies inside Spain itself.

 

[0roo0roo]

should cut them loose now, they only stay with you for the oil.

 

[zinfamous]

just like the rest of France, the Quebecois will answer to the term, "Cheese-eating surrender monkey."

 

[silverpig]

Not quiet lol the canadians call it language police see http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2008/02/14/qc-olf-0214.html
just a quick story i found on google

That doesn't contradict anything I said. You can have signs in english, but they ALSO have to have french on them and the french has to be twice the size.

They didn't get in trouble because they had english on a sign, they got in trouble because they didn't have any french on the sign that was twice the size of other languages.