Question Qualcomm's first Nuvia based SoC - Hamoa

[poke01]

Qualcomm's working on a 2024 PC chip codename "Hamoa" with up to 12 (8P+4E).

Said to the same cache layout as M1. large private L1$, per-cluster L2$ (cluster = 4 cores, 12MB for every cluster) and a lot of LLC.

source:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1589405172979339264

 

[NTMBK]

There's been some interesting rumors on the Korean forums, supposedly (take it as a grain of salt):

2024 8g3 will be N4P and still Cortex cores
2025 8g4 will N3E and Nuvia Oryon CPU. Supposedly 2x Phoenix-I cores + 6x Phoenix-M cores

2024 Exynos 2400 will be 1x X4 + 2x A720 + 3x A720 + 4x A520
2025 Exynos 2500 will be 1x X5 + 3x X5 + 2x A730 + 4x A520 with an interesting big+mid+little+tiny config (big X5 at 3.2~3.3GHz and mid X5 cores 2.3~2.5GHz)

Another two years until we see Nuvia cores? Urgh.

 

[Tigerick]

Another two years until we see Nuvia cores? Urgh.

Qualcomm should launch 8cx Gen 4 with Nuvio cores next year. So far I have seen rumors of 4P+4E and 8P+4E which are targeting M2/3 and M2 Pro

 

[FlameTail]

Laptop SoCs will get Nuvia cores first. (2023)
Then Smartphone chips.(2024)

 

[FlameTail]

Qualcomm Snapdragon 8cx Gen 4: Details of alleged Apple M series rival leak

A new leak has highlighted details about what Qualcomm’s first true answer could be to the Apple M1 and Apple M2 series. Equipped with 12 CPU cores and the GPU from the Snapdragon 8 Gen 2, the Snapdragon 8cx Gen 4 should be significantly more powerful than the current crop of SoCs offered in...

www.notebookcheck.net

Should we make a new thread? It seems the leaks are gonna keep coming now.

 

[poke01]

Qualcomm Snapdragon 8cx Gen 4: Details of alleged Apple M series rival leak

A new leak has highlighted details about what Qualcomm’s first true answer could be to the Apple M1 and Apple M2 series. Equipped with 12 CPU cores and the GPU from the Snapdragon 8 Gen 2, the Snapdragon 8cx Gen 4 should be significantly more powerful than the current crop of SoCs offered in...

www.notebookcheck.net

Should we make a new thread? It seems the leaks are gonna keep coming now.

This is one is fine until Qualcomm releases their chips to the public.

 

[soresu]

I'm just going to laugh until my throat lining is gone if it turns out that Sophia Antipolis cranked out a CPU core competitive with Oryon for Cortex X4/Hunter-ELP.

To fail once with Kryo was bad enough, to fail twice would just be the stuff of legends.

Given ARM Ltd's performance of late I doubt that this will be the case, but there's always a possibility of surprise 😅

 

[beginner99]

I'm just going to laugh until my throat lining is gone if it turns out that Sophia Antipolis cranked out a CPU core competitive with Oryon for Cortex X4/Hunter-ELP.

To fail once with Kryo was bad enough, to fail twice would just be the stuff of legends.

Given ARM Ltd's performance of late I doubt that this will be the case, but there's always a possibility of surprise 😅

Just a matter of time to market. when they bought nuvia it might have looked great but then as usually in big corps things take much longer than they should and the competition can catch up.

 

[FlameTail]

I'm just going to laugh until my throat lining is gone if it turns out that Sophia Antipolis cranked out a CPU core competitive with Oryon for Cortex X4/Hunter-ELP.

To fail once with Kryo was bad enough, to fail twice would just be the stuff of legends.

Given ARM Ltd's performance of late I doubt that this will be the case, but there's always a possibility of surprise 😅

Is Sophia-Antipolis so great? The way you (and almost everyone else) speaks makes them look legendary.

 

[soresu]

Is Sophia-Antipolis so great? The way you (and almost everyone else) speaks makes them look legendary.

They designed Cortex A9, A12/A17, A73 and A75 - all very efficient and performant cores.

By comparison the Austin design team have a tendency to go big and sometimes over do it a bit pushing performance leading to cores that are not so great efficiency wise in their first node target.

I wouldn't call the Sophia-Antipolis design team great, but what they managed with more constrained compute resources on A75 was pretty impressive.

Supposedly the A720/Hunter and X4/Hunter-ELP cores are ground up designs with a greater performance target in mind since shortly after the SoftBank acquisition when they started having greater R&D capital for designing several larger cores in parallel to become competitive with the higher end (aka Apple).

Whether the SA team can meet that target is certainly an interesting question.

From what I was told a couple of years ago the A710/X2 generation codenamed Matterhorn was supposd to be this new SA ground up design.

Instead we got a further evolution of Austin's A76 continuity (A76 was their last truly ground up design) - and A715/X3 is another Austin evolution.

At this point I have to admit I'm well past anxious that something has gone horribly wrong forcing a complete restart.

 

[Tigerick]

Qualcomm is reportedly testing 10" tablets with the upcoming chipset with Oryon CPU

The chipset is tentatively named Snapdragon 8cx Gen 4 (code name Hamoa) and should be featured in Windows-powered tablets and laptops.

m.gsmarena.com

The tablets mostly using 4P+4E CPU which are targeting upcoming iPad Pro with M3...where is x86 ULV CPU ?

 

[hemedans]

Qualcomm is reportedly testing 10" tablets with the upcoming chipset with Oryon CPU

The chipset is tentatively named Snapdragon 8cx Gen 4 (code name Hamoa) and should be featured in Windows-powered tablets and laptops.

m.gsmarena.com

The tablets mostly using 4P+4E CPU which are targeting upcoming iPad Pro with M3...where is x86 ULV CPU ?

8P+4E thats rumored configuration.

 

[NTMBK]

...where is x86 ULV CPU ?

In the Steam Deck.

 

[soresu]

In the Steam Deck.

Also Mendochino?

 

[moinmoin]

Also Mendochino?

That may be more like ULB (ultra low budget) that then gets overclocked to get some more juice out of it (especially out of the 2 CU iGPU).

 

[Roland00Address]

Qualcomm is reportedly testing 10" tablets with the upcoming chipset with Oryon CPU

The chipset is tentatively named Snapdragon 8cx Gen 4 (code name Hamoa) and should be featured in Windows-powered tablets and laptops.

m.gsmarena.com

The tablets mostly using 4P+4E CPU which are targeting upcoming iPad Pro with M3...where is x86 ULV CPU ?

Intel has some 15w chips that can do 12w ctdp down, (which is now called MAP), 2+4 and 2+8 and since the e cores can flucate at 900 mhz to 3.3 ghz with Skylake performance and has those 4.5 to 5.0 ghz performance cores well it is interesting. What is curious is the price and the power consumption for such a chip.

 

[Tigerick]

8P+4E thats rumored configuration.

Qualcomm might have 2 specs in the works. 4P+4E targeting tablets and ultra thin notebook. 8P +4E targeting MBP14

 

[Tigerick]

Also Mendochino?

Wonder whether Valve and AMD will spin 6nm version of VG APU like Mendocino for Steam Deck 2..

 

[soresu]

Wonder whether Valve and AMD will spin 6nm version of VG APU like Mendocino for Steam Deck 2..

I think there is already a cut variant of Phoenix Point in the works for that.

 

[Tigerick]

I think there is already a cut variant of Phoenix Point in the works for that.

Little Phoenix apparently is not designed for Steam Deck, Valve has mentioned no big upgrades on SD2...my hope now is VG N6 refresh...

 

[Tigerick]

Snapdragon 8cx Gen 4 specs surface, promise powerful CPU, support for external GPU

This chip is aimed at Windows PCs and has the connectivity to match with PCIe 4.0 for storage and USB 4 for external connectivity.

www.gsmarena.com

Hmm, the specs look interesting especially compared to M2 Pro series. Guess Qualcomm would be the second PC SoC maker to design SoC with 256-bit memory interfaces. AMD should be following next year.....Intel might have one coming as well. Below is comparison chart between 8cx Gen 4 and M2/3 series:

	M2	M3	8cx Gen 4	M2 Pro	M3 Pro	8cx Gen 4 Pro?
Node	N5P	N3B	N4P	N5P	N3B	N4P
Die Size	141.7 mm2		?	~250 mm2		?
Transistors	20 billions		?	40 billions		?
CPU cores	4P+4E		4P+4E	8P+4E		8P+4E
L2 Cache (P cores)	16 MB		12 MB	32 MB		24 MB
L2 Cache (E cores)	4 MB	8 MB?	8 MB	4 MB	8 MB?	8 MB
L3 SLC Cache	8 MB	12 MB?	6 MB?	24 MB		12 MB
Max Memory	24 GB	32 GB	32 GB	32 GB	64 GB	64 GB
Memory Interfaces	128-bit LPDDR5	128-bit LPDDR5X	128-bit LPDDR5X	256bit LPDDR5	256-bit LPDDR5X	256-bit LPDDR5X
Memory BW	100 GB/s	136 GB/s	136 GB/s	200 GB/s	272 GB/s	272 GB/s
GPU	10 cores	12 cores?	?	19 cores	24 cores?	4 MB
ALU	1280	1536	1536	2432	3072	3072 ?
AIE (TOPS)	15.8	> 20	22.5 ?	15.8	> 40	45

 

[Doug S]

Hmm, the specs look interesting especially compared to M2 Pro series. Guess Qualcomm would be the second PC SoC maker to design SoC with 256-bit memory interfaces. AMD should be following next year.....Intel might have one coming as well. Below is comparison chart between 8cx Gen and M2 series:

Except Apple will be on M3 built on N3 in 2024 when this makes its appearance, so comparisons to M2 aren't that relevant.

Anyway, while everyone will want to compare it to Apple's offerings it will have very little effect on Apple's sales. To the extent Qualcomm is successful in the PC market it will be taking market share from Intel & AMD.

 

[SpudLobby]

Snapdragon 8cx Gen 4 specs surface, promise powerful CPU, support for external GPU

This chip is aimed at Windows PCs and has the connectivity to match with PCIe 4.0 for storage and USB 4 for external connectivity.

www.gsmarena.com

Hmm, the specs look interesting especially compared to M2 Pro series. Guess Qualcomm would be the second PC SoC maker to design SoC with 256-bit memory interfaces. AMD should be following next year.....Intel might have one coming as well. Below is comparison chart between 8cx Gen and M2 series:

	M2	8cx Gen 4	M2 Pro	8cx Gen 4 Pro?
Node	N5P	N4P	N5P	N4P
Die Size	141.7 mm2	?	~250 mm2	?
Transistors	20 billions	?	40 billions	?
CPU cores	4P+4E	4P+4E	8P+4E	8P+4E
L2 Cache (P cores)	16 MB	12 MB	32 MB	24 MB
L2 Cache (E cores)	4 MB	8 MB	4 MB	8 MB
L3 SLC Cache	8 MB	6 MB?	24 MB	12 MB
Max Memory	24 GB	32 GB	32 GB	64 GB
Memory Interfaces	128-bit LPDDR5	128-bit LPDDR5X	256bit LPDDR5	256-bit LPDDR5X
Memory BW	100 GB/s	136 GB/s	200 GB/s	272 GB/s
GPU	10 cores	?	19 cores	4 MB
ALU	1280	1536	2432	3072 ?

Where did you see these 8cx Gen 4 variant specs? Not sure I’ve seen anything specific on the variants, like the bus width especially.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Qualcomm Demands Oryon SoCs to Be Used with Its Own PMICs: Report

Which leads to major costs increases.

www.tomshardware.com

Amusing drama.

 

[beginner99]

Qualcomm Demands Oryon SoCs to Be Used with Its Own PMICs: Report

Which leads to major costs increases.

www.tomshardware.com

Amusing drama.

And sad because we know it will end in a wasted effort already now. Why in the world would I choose a non x86 for Windows if it isn't a lot cheaper? Given the description it will likley cost a lot more than budget intel based systems. So yeah, no thanks. And I doubt Qualcomm will provide a similar tool to apples x86 transpiler or even if much less efficient. So buying such a windows system just is asking for heachaches over headaches.

 

[moinmoin]

Qualcomm Demands Oryon SoCs to Be Used with Its Own PMICs: Report

Which leads to major costs increases.

www.tomshardware.com

Amusing drama.

Looks like after all these years Qualcomm is still too busy applying its semi-monopolistic bundling tactics from the Android market to realize that this won't fly in the laptop market dominated by x86 Windows and Apple.