Quad R9 290x or Quad GTX 980 *liquid cooled*

[NioNai]

I'm looking at building my new rig, and I've about $5000 to put into at the moment. Right now I'm a bit torn on picking the R9 290x or GTX 980, I've done some pricing and I could save about $1000 dollars going with the R9 290x 4GB quad. I'm looking at liquid cooling the whole build and have selected Swiftech for the build for cooling all 4 cards and the CPU.

The System will have 4k priortiy as I already have a 4k monitor, I know that if I opt for the 8GB 290x I can balance the pricing out but I also know that benchmarks have shown very little to no performance increase from 4 to 8GB cards.


As for other parts to the build I'm looking at a Asus X99 board with a i7-5930k. Besides gaming I'm working with animation in blender, maya, and a few other editing rendering programs. So I know I could get a benifit from the 8GB cards as well for that.

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[Erenhardt]

Wait for GM200, but your budged may not be enough for 4 of those - that is assuming all $5000 goes into graphics cards.

 

[wand3r3r]

Quad crossfireX for 4k is the only way I would consider 8 GB cards. The pricing premium (presumably) would be very hard to justify until you get to extreme resolutions. I've seen close to 4GB with dual crossfireX 290x's and 4k, although it hasn't hit the 4 GB limit. Of course you can drop one setting a notch to avoid that.

XDMA Crossfire is excellent and is the R9's strongpoint. They have nailed it with that.

I wouldn't even consider the 980's, they don't bring hardly anything a 290/x/970 bring.

4k is the 290/x's strong point. 980 SLI can't even offer anything extra and to top it off SLI seems to be having smoothness questions and potentially dropped frames. Until we see reviews that NV has fixed it it looks as bad as the 7970 was when NV had a massive smoothness campaign. I would think they may be able to fix the smoothness, or lack thereof, but the 980 isn't even really an improvement over the 290x once you go 4k and dual+ cards. It's a huge price premium down the drain imo.

My opinion for 4k and multiple cards is easy, 290 4 way, otherwise 290x 4 way if they aren't much more. I'd consider 8 GB but it's still a hard sell for me since I'm very budget oriented.

Whether or not you can wait just be aware that the 390x and 980 ti or titan II are likely going to make an appearance in the next 4-5 months, according to rumors. They may also be priced a lot higher so the FPS/$ may not be much better than current 970/290 cards.

 

[KaRLiToS]

If you have the money, you better get GTX 980 Quad. New technology, better efficiency and temperatures.

Also the 5930k is very suitable for you, you absolutely need those 40 PCIe lanes, which the 5820k doesn't have. The 5820k only has 28 Pcie lanes.

I have been rockin Quad R9 290x for a year myself and I'm pretty happy with them. I play at 4k or 8040x1440.

I will leave this here, I know it is not representative of all games but will still give you an idea... this was made at 8044x1440

 

[raghu78]

Since you are investing such a lot of money its worth waiting for R9 390X to launch in Q1 2015. HBM (High bandwidth memory) makes its debut. Good match for 4k gaming. Frankly I would always advise to go for the least number of GPUs for a given performance because perf scaling falls off after the 2nd GPU. Moreover multi GPU issues like higher frametimes still exist and the game support for 3 and 4 way multi GPU solutions is not so good.

If you are in a hurry definitely go with 8GB R9 290X. The extra VRAM is useful when you try to max the latest games at 4k especially with MSAA or SSAA.

 

[aigomorla]

I'm looking at building my new rig, and I've about $5000 to put into at the moment. Right now I'm a bit torn on picking the R9 290x or GTX 980, I've done some pricing and I could save about $1000 dollars going with the R9 290x 4GB quad. I'm looking at liquid cooling the whole build and have selected Swiftech for the build for cooling all 4 cards and the CPU.

The System will have 4k priortiy as I already have a 4k monitor, I know that if I opt for the 8GB 290x I can balance the pricing out but I also know that benchmarks have shown very little to no performance increase from 4 to 8GB cards.


As for other parts to the build I'm looking at a Asus X99 board with a i7-5930k. Besides gaming I'm working with animation in blender, maya, and a few other editing rendering programs. So I know I could get a benifit from the 8GB cards as well for that.

Any help would be much appreciated.

5000 dolllars is not enough budget to watercool a beast like that.
Considering the fact you will probably spend about HALF if not more on just the watercooling parts.

Basically if 5000 dollars is all you have, you will run out FAST.
You need to add about 40% more... to about 7000 dollars in my rough estimation.
Roughly 3000 dollars in liquid cooling parts, alone along with the case.... which leaves u an acceptable budget of 4000 for your core hardware.

4 gpu waterblocks + 1 cpu block + pump(s) + radiator(s) + Reservoir(s) + fitting(s) + a case to fit it all are not CHEAP.


Koolance > eK > Swiftech in blocks.

 

[exar333]

If you have to have 4 GPUs right now, I would honestly go for 2x 295X2's. This would allow you to use pretty much any board and CPU, because you don't need all the PCIe lanes.

Just a thought...the stock cooling is also pretty darn good on those and you could minimize the loop as well.

 

[aigomorla]

If you have to have 4 GPUs right now, I would honestly go for 2x 295X2's. This would allow you to use pretty much any board and CPU, because you don't need all the PCIe lanes.

Just a thought...the stock cooling is also pretty darn good on those and you could minimize the loop as well.

4 gpu's will require a entirely separate loop. There is too many things going on on a loop that complex.
Not to also mention his flow will be drastically reduced with that many blocks in a series.

rule of thumb goes.... every 350W of heat in a series, @ 1.5gpm flow will increase temperatures 1C on that section of the loop causing a heat gradient where equilibrium will not work efficiently.
The more Flow you have inside the loop, the higher the number gets, and vice versa.
1.5gpm flow is a fairly easy number to attain, if its a simple loop, but with 5 waterblocks + radiators, that number gets quite difficult on even 2 pumps.
Pumps in a series will double head pressure but will NOT double flow, you net about 1/3rd more flow, so as you can see flow is very difficult to scale.


That means he will have a HOT and COLD section on his loop, so it is advised he should split the loop up to attain the best performance on a system of that magnitude.
Basically a CPU loop, and a GPU loop if accounting for 4 GPU's, and add the greater cooling capacity loop dedicated to the GPU's.

 

[RussianSensation]

I would buy 3-4 R9 290s for $1000. 980 Quad will only be 20% faster at 4K, maybe worse due to Maxwell SLI scaling falling off a cliff after dual-SLI. Then next year, I would sell those and get GM200/390. There is no way I would go Quad-980 right now because of poor scaling and frame times from Linus Tech Tips and PcPer's reviews. Even HardOCP's latest review didn't have 980 SLI beat 290X CF at 4K. That's ridiculous considering the former setup costs nearly double!

Right now is a really bad time to go Quad anything honestly if your budget is $5000. That's because 980 is just a mid-range card. You are better off going dual-GM200s or triple 390Xs if spending that kind of money. Otherwise, you can also consider other stop-gap solutions such as dual-970s for $700. Good setup for 4K that doesn't even need water cooling. MSI Gaming 970's run virtually silent, defeating the whole purpose of water-cooling them.

Water cooling benefits the most power hungry and voltage unlocked cards. 970/980 don't fit those categories.

 

[exar333]

4 gpu's will require a entirely separate loop. There is too many things going on on a loop that complex.
Not to also mention his flow will be drastically reduced with that many blocks in a series.

rule of thumb goes.... every 350W of heat in a series, @ 1.5gpm flow will increase temperatures 1C on that section of the loop causing a heat gradient where equilibrium will not work efficiently.
The more Flow you have inside the loop, the higher the number gets, and vice versa.
1.5gpm flow is a fairly easy number to attain, if its a simple loop, but with 5 waterblocks + radiators, that number gets quite difficult on even 2 pumps.
Pumps in a series will double head pressure but will NOT double flow, you net about 1/3rd more flow, so as you can see flow is very difficult to scale.


That means he will have a HOT and COLD section on his loop, so it is advised he should split the loop up to attain the best performance on a system of that magnitude.
Basically a CPU loop, and a GPU loop if accounting for 4 GPU's, and add the greater cooling capacity loop dedicated to the GPU's.

Agreed...

What I meant (and didn't state very well) was to just use the stock WC coolers on the 295X2s and just have a loop for the CPU. If the OP wants to put the 295X2s in the loop, then yes, it would need a lot of cooling.

 

[King4x4]

Go trifire or trisli if you a gamer and quad if you are a bencher

 

[crisium]

If you have the money, you better get GTX 980 Quad. New technology, better efficiency and temperatures.

Except old SLI technology, whereas 290x has new Crossfire. 290 series, in multicard configurations, are smoother at 4K than 970/980. 4 290X's will be throwing around a ridiculous amount of heat compared to 970/980, but if you can handle it I don't see how it's not the superior option.

 

[Actaeon]

Jesus that is a lot of money to spend on a computer but it would be a hell of a build.

If I had $5k for a setup, I would try stretching it out instead of using it all at once. I would start with a dual card CF/SLI setup for much less and use the left over money for constant GPU upgrades each year or every other year. Sell the old cards to recoup costs before they are worthless.

You would have less performance at first, but one GPU upgrade cycle in should bring you close to a current quad card setup. The 2nd GPU upgrade cycle I expect would be faster. And you've still got money for another upgrade cycle or two.

$3k now, and $2k for a few GPU cycle upgrades would still be a hell of a machine.

 

[KaRLiToS]

4 gpu's will require a entirely separate loop. There is too many things going on on a loop that complex.
Not to also mention his flow will be drastically reduced with that many blocks in a series.

rule of thumb goes.... every 350W of heat in a series, @ 1.5gpm flow will increase temperatures 1C on that section of the loop causing a heat gradient where equilibrium will not work efficiently.
The more Flow you have inside the loop, the higher the number gets, and vice versa.
1.5gpm flow is a fairly easy number to attain, if its a simple loop, but with 5 waterblocks + radiators, that number gets quite difficult on even 2 pumps.
Pumps in a series will double head pressure but will NOT double flow, you net about 1/3rd more flow, so as you can see flow is very difficult to scale.


That means he will have a HOT and COLD section on his loop, so it is advised he should split the loop up to attain the best performance on a system of that magnitude.
Basically a CPU loop, and a GPU loop if accounting for 4 GPU's, and add the greater cooling capacity loop dedicated to the GPU's.

This is not "all" true aigomoria.

My loop consists of this (single loop)

-Reservoir
-Dual MCP655 Pumps (in serial)
-Feser X-Changer 240mm (Push/pull)
-R9 290x (Ek)
-R9 290x (Ek)
-R9 290x (Ek)
-R9 290x (Ek)
-TEMPERATURE SENSOR = 24'C
-Feser X-Changer 480mm (Push/Pull)
-Another MCP655 Pump
-Waterkool MO-RA3 1080mm (Push only)
-TEMPERATURE SENSOR = 23.8'C
-Feser X-Changer 360mm (Push/Pull)
-Mosfet Koolance block
-EK Supremacy CPU Block
-PCH Koolance block
-Back to reservoir

Under huge load, my water temperature goes up to 32'C after many hours of gaming, both sensors indicate the same temperature ALWAYS

As you can see, the are 1560mm of Radiator between both sensors and they indicate the same temperature, even the first sensor that is right after the QUAD R9 290x. This means, the temperature is equal throughout the loop because of the water flow. Also, the third pump is overkill because I can run my loop with only 2 x Pumps. But the third was meant to be overkill along the Mora radiator. This is the only reason why I installed two sensors in my loop, it was to test if what you are saying is true, which isn't ....unless you have pretty bad flow in the loop, but even if I turn off a pump, the temps will still be equal.

__________________________________

Also, I'd like to mention that all blocks are good for Core cooling, but some are MUCH better for the VRM1 cooling.

I prefer Ek blocks because they always were good with VRM cooling.

CHECK THIS THREAD FOR A COMPLETE REVIEW OF ALL THE BEST BLOCKS AVAILABLE

COOLING

RESTRICTION

 

[UaVaj]

another vote for 290x x4.

290x x4 is the overall better value.
pro: cheaper acquisition, xdma cfx is superior, better scaling
con: more wattage, more heat, more noise (recommend water or open bench w/ headphones)

980 x4 is a nice second choice.
pro: slightly faster, less wattage, less heat, less noise
con: expensive acquisition, not as smooth as xdma cfx at 4k

for baseline. currently running 290x x4 @ 3k.
so for 4k with ultra preset with 60fps minimum. you will need quad cfx or quad sli.

as for water cooling. the simple goal of single loop with typical noise with typical temperature. expect to pay ~$850 for all water cooling parts (koolance brand).
aigomora's $3000 recommendation is for bling bling + low temp + near silent noise. such goal can gets expensive fast.

no brainer decision. definitely 290x x4. especially if you are going underwater.



as for 4GB vs 8GB. if you can make use of the additional vram. get the 8GB. otherwise 4GB is plenty for today's aaa titles.

 

[aigomorla]

This is not true aigomoria.

then something is not correct because what i stated is a fundamental value in thermodynamics.

Probably you are looking at light load temps... but suposidely if u were to load all your GPU's at 100%, you would have a temperature gradient from the inlet of the first video card to the outlet of the last.

This is a value stated in thermodynamics...

Now dont get me wrong, i am not stating your build is off or bad in anyway.
It is quite impressive in scale, and i see you did have some planning done to build it.
The OP can go all single loop as you did, however in most cases when a loop gets that complicated, its just ideal to split it up so one factor doesn't impact the other.

aigomora's $3000 recommendation is for bling bling + low temp + near silent noise. such goal can gets expensive fast.

4 gpu blocks alone ~ 600 dollars.... then a case to fit it all will probably cost around 700 itself... which means 1300 dollars just in the case + gpu blocks.
That leaves a reserve of about 1700 dollars in the rest of the LC parts.

Unless the OP seriously thinks he can get away with 2 x 360's, which i feel he will be disappointed if he did.
If you look at KaRLiToS he has a 480 + 360 + 1080....
KaRLiToS has about 400-500 dollars in radiators alone on his working quadfire R290 setup, which if you factor will leave the OP with 1200 dollar budget to fit the rest.

Unless the OP is OK with having radiators externally, a case to support a near config of that nature is going to be expensive.
So at best he could probably shave off 500 of the initial estimate if he decided to skip out on a lot of bling like SLI bridges and Fittings, but i always leave that 25% reserve there incase one decides to add something else to the loop.

 

[KaRLiToS]

then something is not correct because what i stated is a fundamental value in thermodynamics.

Probably you are looking at light load temps... but suposidely if u were to load all your GPU's at 100%, you would have a temperature gradient from the inlet of the first video card to the outlet of the last.

This is a value stated in thermodynamics...

Now dont get me wrong, i am not stating your build is off or bad in anyway.
It is quite impressive in scale, and i see you did have some planning done to build it.
The OP can go all single loop as you did, however in most cases when a loop gets that complicated, its just ideal to split it up so one factor doesn't impact the other.

I agree with 100% of what you just said my friend.

I will make a video soon with everything at 100% load .

If you look at KaRLiToS he has a 480 + 360 + 1080....

+ 240mm

 

[KaRLiToS]

Okay I just did the video. Ran the bench for an hour before posting. Unlike summer, my ambient temps are around 23'C in my basement with the rig running 24 hours / 7 days.

In the video I show the difference between both sensors, the one after the Quad R9 290x and the one after being cooled by 1560mm of radiators. You see that there is less than 1'C difference, and that may be because of the different sensors precision and one has a decimal while the other doesn't.

I also show that with two pumps and everything inside my loop, I still get decent amount of flow to the reservoir. ( I show the difference between 2 and 3 pumps, they are all running at 4/5 speed ratio, not even full speed, I want longevity, some of the pumps are almost 4 years old and no issue yet... robust pumps)

I also demonstrate the ambient temperature inside my case.

And the end is some of the nice Valley benchmark on 8040x1440

Thanks for watching

http://youtu.be/7R6z-1pAEPw

 

[Silverforce11]

Wait for the big daddies to arrive, R390X or Titan II.

It would be insanity to splurge so much $ now so late in this generation that is about to be obsoleted.

 

[UaVaj]

4 gpu blocks alone ~ 600 dollars.... then a case to fit it all will probably cost around 700 itself... which means 1300 dollars just in the case + gpu blocks.
That leaves a reserve of about 1700 dollars in the rest of the LC parts.

Unless the OP seriously thinks he can get away with 2 x 360's, which i feel he will be disappointed if he did.

not everyone is interested in - FULL bling bling + 40C low temp + 40dB low noise.
the end goal of a true "dedicated" water enthusiast.

some of us just "simply" wants to: shut the case and keep it under the desk + want to keep temperature in check to prevent throttling + want to keep noise under control to prevent jet engine take off.
could care less about flashy components, could care less about low temp, could care less about near silent.

as for the math. ~$850 was for ALL water cooling parts.
pump + cpu block + two 360 radiators + four 290x block + quad gpu connecting bridge + fitting + tubing + liquid.

btw. right now and in stock - koolance - is selling full 290x block for $99.99.
which makes the new total for ALL ~$800.





the litmus test.

a H80i - single 120mm can cool an i7.
a 295x2 - single 120mm can cool two 290x.
any reason why a single 360 cannot get the same job done ??

 

[KaRLiToS]

a H80i - single 120mm can cool an i7.
a 295x2 - single 120mm can cool two 290x.
any reason why a single 360 cannot get the same job done ??

The 295x2 is not watercool, it is "Hybrid". There is still a lot of heat dissipated through the fan.

 

[UaVaj]

http://youtu.be/7R6z-1pAEPw

nice video. temp averaging mid 30's. :thumbsup::thumbsup:



are your rads in series or parallel?
if rads are in parallel and you are able to shut of flow to each rad.

can you test to see what each rad is capable of alone? can that single 360 maintain 80s temp?

 

[UaVaj]

The 295x2 is not watercool, it is "Hybrid". There is still a lot of heat dissipated through the fan.

exactly. that is why I suggest a 360 rad and not a 240 rad. :biggrin:

 

[KaRLiToS]

nice video. temp averaging mid 30's. :thumbsup::thumbsup:



are your rads in series or parallel?
if rads are in parallel and you are able to shut of flow to each rad.

can you test to see what each rad is capable of alone? can that single 360 maintain 80s temp?

Everything is in serial. Sorry mate

My loop consists of this (single loop / all serial )

-Reservoir
-Dual MCP655 Pumps (in serial)
-Feser X-Changer 240mm (Push/pull)
-R9 290x (Ek)
-R9 290x (Ek)
-R9 290x (Ek)
-R9 290x (Ek)
-TEMPERATURE SENSOR = 24'C
-Feser X-Changer 480mm (Push/Pull)
-Another MCP655 Pump
-Waterkool MO-RA3 1080mm (Push only)
-TEMPERATURE SENSOR = 23.8'C
-Feser X-Changer 360mm (Push/Pull)
-Mosfet Koolance block
-EK Supremacy CPU Block
-PCH Koolance block
-Back to reservoir

 

[Piklar]

Seriously your best bet is to stop gap with either SLI 970s or CF 290/290x until the big guns arrive.. then spend your big bucks.