Quad Monitor Setup - Where do I start???

[TBay]

Hi Everyone,

I am trying to setup 4 monitors, and don't know what video card I need, or how to figure out what will work. Here are some questions I have:

When I install it, will I keep 2 monitors plugged into the MB and plug 2 monitors into the graphics card?

Will my 430W power supply hold up?

Does anyone have a MB they recommend getting?


Any links to products or articles about this would be greatly appreciated! I've searched, but still can't figure out how to chose a GPU for this MB.

Thanks for the help!





Use:
Simulation code development, watching videos, maybe some gaming but it's not a high priority

Monitors:
Currently I am running two 24's (SAMSUNG P2450H):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813130269

I just ordered two more 24's (ASUS VW246H):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824236049

Computer:
-OS: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (installed on SSD)
-MB: MSI 890GXM-G65 AM3 AMD 890GX HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.msi.com/product/mb/890GXM-G65.html#/?div=Detail
-CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ955FBGMBOX
-RAM: 8GB of Kingston ValueRAM 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Desktop Memory Model KVR1333D3K2/4GR
-Case: Antec Three Hundred + BP430 Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 430W Power Supply

 

[lavaheadache]

see my sig. Very easy to setup. You can find cards out there with 4 dispaly outputs but it may be easier for you to just pick up 2 cheapie cards.

 

[TBay]

see my sig. Very easy to setup. You can find cards out there with 4 dispaly outputs but it may be easier for you to just pick up 2 cheapie cards.

Thanks for the quick reply lavaheadache. Is it better to run everything off the video cards rather than 2 into the MB and 2 into the video card? Do you have any cards you'd recommend for my MB?

Can I just buy one of these (with 2 DVI outputs) and keep running my other 2 monitors from the motherboard?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161387

Thanks!

 

[lavaheadache]

2 of those would be fine, way overkill if your not gaming though. As far as using the motherboard outputs... dunno

Usually you have to disable onboard video to use a discreet card but I'm not so sure

 

[TBay]

So if that's overkill, what would be a good cheap video card that would still work? Something like this maybe?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814500213

What specs should I be looking at?

Thanks again for the help!

 

[lavaheadache]

honestly, you really need to decide if you will be using it to game or not. If you aren't going to game then the get the absolute cheapest cards you can get.

If you will be gaming then will you be doing eyefinity (AMD lingo for multi monitor gaming)? If yes, then you will need monster cards, and the resolutions will have to match across the displays. If you only plan to game on one monitor then the card can be less powerful depending on how pretty you want games to look.

 

[TBay]

honestly, you really need to decide if you will be using it to game or not. If you aren't going to game then the get the absolute cheapest cards you can get.

If you will be gaming then will you be doing eyefinity (AMD lingo for multi monitor gaming)? If yes, then you will need monster cards, and the resolutions will have to match across the displays. If you only plan to game on one monitor then the card can be less powerful depending on how pretty you want games to look.

Makes since. Well, being that I'm on a budget, I don't need gaming. Which card should I get?

I found this one for $40 and it looks decent.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130585

Will it fit my motherboard?

Here is what the MSI website list for my MB:
• PCI_E1 slot with x16 operation (PCI Express Bus SPEC V2.0 compliant)
• PCI_E2 slot with x8 operation (PCI Express Bus SPEC V2.0 compliant)
- When 2 PCI Express x16 slots are all installed, the PCIE x 16 lanes will auto arrange form x16/ x0 to x8/ x8. Do not use PCI_E2 slot when only one PCI Express x16 card is installed.
• 1 PCI Express x1 slot
• 1 PCI slot, support 3.3V/ 5V PCI bus Interface.

 

[ther00kie16]

Your MB seems to have 125W ceiling.
So get this CPU instead since it's cheap, 95W and may unlock to 6 cores.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103995
The official CPU support list doesn't include the 960t but that's because it's an OEM part that wasn't intended for sale to the consumer. If you want to verify compatibility, someone on msi's forums got it to work and the 840t, which is the same family, is officially supported.

You should be able to use onboard gpu and dedicated gpu. I remember AMD touting that ability to drive 3+ monitors about 3 generations back so you'd buy their motherboard (and thus CPU) and gpu. Mixing AMD/nVidia also isn't an issue. However, 8400gs is way too weak. At least get something like a gts250 for a little more after rebate.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814162069

If you don't mind spending $100 and may want more monitors in the future, look into the FLEX cards as they support 3 DVI + 1 DP for 4 monitors total so you could have up to 6.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102938

 

[KingFatty]

You can obtain the 4-monitor support by spending $15 on a cheap but good video card like the HD 5450.

Plug 2 monitors into the motherboard, and plug 2 monitors into the cheap video card. Done.

All your other specs will support this no problem (unless you want to do serious gaming across multiple monitors). However, I've played Starcraft 2 using the motherboard video card supporting 2 monitors, but only displaying the game on a single monitor while the other monitor was idle during the game. It was playable. I have a similar 890GX motherboard.

Note - I had to adjust one setting of the motherboard to enable *both* the motherboard video output and the video card output simultaneously. You may have to also adjust yours, or your motherboard may default to enabling motherboard and separate video card simultaneously.

Edit: Also note that the HD 5450 video card has a very low power draw, so it will favor your power supply unit by not stressing it as much as a more powerful gaming card.

Further, when you want to do some occasional gaming, the HD 5450 can be used in conjunction with your on-board video, using something called Hybrid crossfire. So the game will tap into both video cards to process the graphics. In other words, your on-board video card has 20 horsepower for gaming, and the HD 5450 has 40 horsepower for gaming. Using hybrid crossfire, you can play a game using around 55 horsepower from both video processors. Note I was able to play Starcraft 2 using only the 20 horsepower of the on-board video. But keep in mind, if you get a powerful gaming video card, it will have like 800 horsepower totally dwarfing the on-board or HD 5450 video processors. But, for $15 to buy a new HD 5450, it's nice to get the 4 monitor support as well as having the option to use all 55 horsepower when you play a game on a single monitor.

 

[TBay]

Wow! Great feedback!!!

Your MB seems to have 125W ceiling.
So get this CPU instead since it's cheap, 95W and may unlock to 6 cores.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103995
The official CPU support list doesn't include the 960t but that's because it's an OEM part that wasn't intended for sale to the consumer. If you want to verify compatibility, someone on msi's forums got it to work and the 840t, which is the same family, is officially supported.

I couldn't find that limit anywhere on the MB site (http://www.msi.com/product/mb/890GXM-G65.html#/?div=Detail), but is there anyway I could add a video card without replacing the CPU? Sounds like it's maxed out (125W CPU on 125W MB).

You should be able to use onboard gpu and dedicated gpu. I remember AMD touting that ability to drive 3+ monitors about 3 generations back so you'd buy their motherboard (and thus CPU) and gpu. Mixing AMD/nVidia also isn't an issue. However, 8400gs is way too weak. At least get something like a gts250 for a little more after rebate.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814162069

If you don't mind spending $100 and may want more monitors in the future, look into the FLEX cards as they support 3 DVI + 1 DP for 4 monitors total so you could have up to 6.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102938

I don't mind spending $100ish on a GPU, just so I do not have to replace the processor. If I can't add a VGA with this CPU, I will probably sell this computer to a friend and build a new one, but I prefer not to.

You can obtain the 4-monitor support by spending $15 on a cheap but good video card like the HD 5450.

Plug 2 monitors into the motherboard, and plug 2 monitors into the cheap video card. Done.

All your other specs will support this no problem (unless you want to do serious gaming across multiple monitors). However, I've played Starcraft 2 using the motherboard video card supporting 2 monitors, but only displaying the game on a single monitor while the other monitor was idle during the game. It was playable. I have a similar 890GX motherboard.

Edit: Also note that the HD 5450 video card has a very low power draw, so it will favor your power supply unit by not stressing it as much as a more powerful gaming card.

It sounds like this is the best option, if it will work without burning up the motherboard. I found it for $30 (after rebate):
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161322).

Where did you find it for $15?

Will this work on my MB without exceeding the power limit? If so, it sounds like the HD 5450 is the only option unless I want to replace my processor. I have 8GB RAM and 2 HDD's and 1 SSD so I might be close to the limit. It sounds like I have 2 power limits to worry about - the motherboard (125W???) and the powersupply (430W).

Note - I had to adjust one setting of the motherboard to enable *both* the motherboard video output and the video card output simultaneously. You may have to also adjust yours, or your motherboard may default to enabling motherboard and separate video card simultaneously.

Do you recall if you had to change it physically (MB mounted switch) or in software (BIOS/OS)?

Further, when you want to do some occasional gaming, the HD 5450 can be used in conjunction with your on-board video, using something called Hybrid crossfire. So the game will tap into both video cards to process the graphics. In other words, your on-board video card has 20 horsepower for gaming, and the HD 5450 has 40 horsepower for gaming. Using hybrid crossfire, you can play a game using around 55 horsepower from both video processors. Note I was able to play Starcraft 2 using only the 20 horsepower of the on-board video. But keep in mind, if you get a powerful gaming video card, it will have like 800 horsepower totally dwarfing the on-board or HD 5450 video processors. But, for $15 to buy a new HD 5450, it's nice to get the 4 monitor support as well as having the option to use all 55 horsepower when you play a game on a single monitor.

Great explanation! - that makes sense. If they're still $15, I wouldn't mind buying 2 and not using the on board VGA if you guys think that's best (for close to 80 GPU HP).


Thanks for the feedback! I really appreciate it!!!

 

[natto fire]

As for the CPU talk, I think a good question should be how much you game and do CPU intensive tasks (using 4 displays does not really affect CPU use much) before you start talking about anything more than a used $20 video card with enough video outputs. You mention $100 above, so that is definitely a good budget for a mini upgrade.

I think people like to suggest a lot of unnecessary things right away because it is fun to shop, or we are not asking the right questions about how you use your computer.

 

[KingFatty]

No need to replace the motherboard. That separate motherboard wattage rating refers to how much power the motherboard can provide for the CPU. Your CPU meets the motherboard rating, so adding other things besides the CPU will not affect that. I went to the link you provided for your motherboard, and you can see among the list of supported CPUs, there is even a 140 watt listed as supported so you are OK. Note the website also has a warning about avoiding doing a power-intensive CPU burn-test, because there is a chance if you overclock and max all your CPU voltage settings that your motherboard will generate a lot of heat and risk heat damage.

Powerful video cards will draw extra power directly from the power supply, without drawing above spec power from the motherboard. There are dedicated power cords that plug directly into the video card for that purpose. Note, the puny video cards like the 5450 do not need this additional power draw. However, your power supply is ample for supporting a decent video card, so don't let that deter your decision.

As for the $15 5450 pricing, there was an Asus for $15 After Rebate but that expired at the end of November, and there was an MSI for $15 AR but that rebate expired 12/11/2011. if you wait a bit, it should go back on sale. I bought mine early November for $20 AR. $30 is a fair price, but don't kick yourself when it goes back on sale/rebate for $15 next week perhaps. Also, you are getting closer to a turning point where it's worth spending more for a more powerful video card.

however, I'm very pleased with the silent performance of the 5450. It doesn't have a noisy high-power fan/cooler because it has so little horsepower and draws so little power.

You mention some simulation code - it may be very important to find out if that can take advantage of a powerful video card. Some things are stuck running on a CPU, so you don't have incentive for powerful video card unless you are doing fancy multi-monitor or high-res gaming. But people can use their powerful video cards for things like re-encoding video files or calculating cryptographic stuff for bitcoin mining etc. Can your simulation code tap into the power of a GPU of a video card? Otherwise, everything you mention seems like it would work on a puny on-board video card of the motherboard or a cheapo 5450 video card. Note, those cards are still powerful enough to decode blu-ray video etc., more powerful than similar cheap cards in the past.

So I think if I were you I'd dip my toe in the water by buying a cheap video card and see how it meets your needs. If it doesn't, sell on craigslist or ebay and buy a fancier card. You could buy 2 video cards, but I'm not sure you need that processing power, nor am I sure it's worth using up the extra electricity just for doing non-video-intensive tasks.

 

[TBay]

No need to replace the motherboard. That separate motherboard wattage rating refers to how much power the motherboard can provide for the CPU. Your CPU meets the motherboard rating, so adding other things besides the CPU will not affect that. I went to the link you provided for your motherboard, and you can see among the list of supported CPUs, there is even a 140 watt listed as supported so you are OK. Note the website also has a warning about avoiding doing a power-intensive CPU burn-test, because there is a chance if you overclock and max all your CPU voltage settings that your motherboard will generate a lot of heat and risk heat damage.

That makes much more sense. I didn't understand how the motherboard could restrict the power to the GPU since there are other sources for power available, as you mentioned.

So I think if I were you I'd dip my toe in the water by buying a cheap video card and see how it meets your needs. If it doesn't, sell on craigslist or ebay and buy a fancier card. You could buy 2 video cards, but I'm not sure you need that processing power, nor am I sure it's worth using up the extra electricity just for doing non-video-intensive tasks.

I guess it just seems better in my (uninformed) opinion - that way both sets of monitors have the exact same hardware supporting them. If I can get by with just one, I will go that route. The most video intensive task I do is probably watching a video on one monitor while working on the other 3, possibly with some simple 3D graphs on another monitor. I might do a little old school Halo, but it's not a priority if that doesn't work. It sounds like 1 gpu will be up to the task?

I guess I didn't realize that many different companies used the HD 5450 - Does it matter which one I go with or will they all work?

You mention some simulation code - it may be very important to find out if that can take advantage of a powerful video card. Some things are stuck running on a CPU, so you don't have incentive for powerful video card unless you are doing fancy multi-monitor or high-res gaming. But people can use their powerful video cards for things like re-encoding video files or calculating cryptographic stuff for bitcoin mining etc. Can your simulation code tap into the power of a GPU of a video card? Otherwise, everything you mention seems like it would work on a puny on-board video card of the motherboard or a cheapo 5450 video card. Note, those cards are still powerful enough to decode blu-ray video etc., more powerful than similar cheap cards in the past.

That's a really good point! I use MATLAB. I looked into it and they do offer GPU support ("MATLAB GPU Computing with NVIDIA CUDA-Enabled GPUs") in their "Parallel Computing Toolbox". Unfortunately, my student version doesn't include this, so I won't be able to run it ever on my personal computer. This is good to know, but I will most likely do all my massive simulations on my job's high performance computing servers.

Thanks again for all the help! You've saved me from half a dozen mistakes already!!!

 

[ther00kie16]

I was under the impression that you were planning to buy everything but the monitors. If you already have the processor & motherboard, it's fine if you don't overclock but look into undervolting. I don't see $15 but if you go to newegg video cards and look at newest generations like AMD 5000/6000 and nVidia gts 400/500 and check on mail-in rebates, you'll find some in the $20 range.

 

[darckhart]

That's a really good point! I use MATLAB. I looked into it and they do offer GPU support ("MATLAB GPU Computing with NVIDIA CUDA-Enabled GPUs") in their "Parallel Computing Toolbox". Unfortunately, my student version doesn't include this, so I won't be able to run it ever on my personal computer. This is good to know, but I will most likely do all my massive simulations on my job's high performance computing servers.

Having gpu support and having it perform well are two different things. The last time I tried the cuda support in Matlab, it was atrocious, especially if your problems have 200K+ dof. the hpc cluster is probably going to be your best bet for a while.

 

[TBay]

I was under the impression that you were planning to buy everything but the monitors. If you already have the processor & motherboard, it's fine if you don't overclock but look into undervolting. I don't see $15 but if you go to newegg video cards and look at newest generations like AMD 5000/6000 and nVidia gts 400/500 and check on mail-in rebates, you'll find some in the $20 range.

What's the point to undervolting? To make sure I don't draw too much from the PSU?

Having gpu support and having it perform well are two different things. The last time I tried the cuda support in Matlab, it was atrocious, especially if your problems have 200K+ dof. the hpc cluster is probably going to be your best bet for a while.

I haven't heard that, but I'm not too surprised. MATLAB is great for demonstration of concept, but I typically don't use it for commercialized codes.



I think I'm gonna go with two of the ASUS cards (ASUS EAH5450 SILENT/DI/512MD3(LP) Radeon HD 5450 512MB 64-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready Low Profile Ready Video Card)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...tem=14-121-444

Is there any disadvantage to getting two of these? That way, it can handle video, 3D graphs, and light gaming.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[ther00kie16]

You don't have to undervolt as there shouldn't be any problems but it does lower the CPU power draw significantly.
It doesn't say that the motherboard has a 125W limit but the fact that it doesn't list support for the 140W CPU usually tells you a bit about the power capabilities of the motherboard.

2 of any gpu is fine but you really won't be able to play any newer games on that card. You might as well just buy one and use onboard gpu.

 

[KingFatty]

There is a sale for an HD 5450 for $9.99 after rebate. It's a Gigabyte model:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125405

 

[TBay]

So I bought a video card and installed it (an ASUS EAH5450). After changing some settings and installing drivers, I finally got all 4 monitors working.

Then I got this error message:

The color scheme has been changed to windows 7 basic:
The current color scheme has exceeded its allowed memory so the color scheme has been automatically changed to improve performance. Click to see more information.

In an attempt to resolve this, I added another video card of the same type, but that didn't seem to help much. Now, using two PCIe video cards (with the monitors only plugged in to them, not using on board GPU), I am still getting the error message? Does anyone know what could be causing this?

I also got this error message:

"Do you want to change the color scheme to improve performance?

The current color scheme, Windows Aero, is using most of it's dedicated memory, which can result in slower computer performance. To free up some memory for better computer performance, try closing some open windows or changing the color scheme to Windows 7 basic."

If an onboard video card can handle 2 monitors just fine, then I would think to PCIe video cards would be able to handle all 4 monitors with ease...

Do I need to change some settings to allow this to work?

Thanks again for the help!

 

[Puppies04]

How much ram are you using on this system, i'm a little confused from your first post as you list 8gb and 2x2gb

 

[Puppies04]

Run windows experience index (start>computer>system properties) I found a thread elsewhere and the problem dissapeared after they ran it, also while you are in there click "view and print detailed performance and system information" and copy/paste the readout here.

 

[TBay]

How much ram are you using on this system, i'm a little confused from your first post as you list 8gb and 2x2gb

Sorry, that is confusing. I just copied the name from newegg, so I have 2 of the 2x2gb packs totaling 8GB RAM.

Isn't it using memory on the graphics card or does the RAM have some effect as well?

Run windows experience index (start>computer>system properties) I found a thread elsewhere and the problem dissapeared after they ran it, also while you are in there click "view and print detailed performance and system information" and copy/paste the readout here.

I ran it before and after I installed the video cards, here it is:

Performance Information and tools:
-Processor: 7.3
-RAM: 7.5
-Graphics: 4.6
-Gaming Graphics: 6.1
-Primary hard disk: 7.5

Base Score: 4.6 (Determined by lowest subscore)

More details about my computer

Component Details Subscore Base score
Processor AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 955 Processor 7.3 4.6
Determined by lowest subscore

Memory (RAM) 8.00 GB 7.5
Graphics ASUS EAH5450 Series 4.6
Gaming graphics 4351 MB Total available graphics memory 6.1
Primary hard disk 9GB Free (60GB Total) 7.5
Windows 7 Professional

System
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Manufacturer MSI
Model MS-7642
Total amount of system memory 8.00 GB RAM
System type 64-bit operating system
Number of processor cores 4

Storage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total size of hard disk(s) 1678 GB
Disk partition (C) 9 GB Free (60 GB Total)
Disk partition (D) 72 MB Free (100 MB Total)
Disk partition (G) 336 GB Free (931 GB Total)
Media drive (H) CD/DVD
Disk partition (W) 250 GB Free (687 GB Total)

Graphics
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Display adapter type ASUS EAH5450 Series
Total available graphics memory 4351 MB
Dedicated graphics memory 512 MB
Dedicated system memory 0 MB
Shared system memory 3839 MB
Display adapter driver version 8.861.0.0
Secondary monitor resolution 1920x1080
Secondary monitor resolution 1920x1080
Secondary monitor resolution 1920x1080
Primary monitor resolution 1920x1080
DirectX version DirectX 10

Network
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Network Adapter Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller

Notes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The gaming graphics score is based on the primary graphics adapter. If this system has linked or multiple graphics adapters, some software applications may see additional performance benefits.
Caution: Based on the results of the WinSAT Disk assessment, your system drive may have slower response times under some workloads. Performance results will depend on the specific applications used and the amount of memory available. If your experience is satisfactory, no action is needed.

Shouldn't I have more video memory than this? It shows "Dedicated graphics memory" is 512MB, but I should have 512MB on each external card plus whatever onboard memory there is. Is it possible that it's just using the onboard memory?

Thanks again for the help!

 

[gorobei]

you might want to go in to m/b bios and turn off any igp as it may eat some ram for video memory.