QE1, QE2, & What Happens when Q2 Results come out in July 2011 ?

wwswimming

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Jan 21, 2006
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QE1 = Quantitative Easing 1
QE2 = Quantitative Easing 2
Q2 = Second Quarter


On March 18, 2009, Bernanke announced part of QE1, $300 Billion worth. The price of gold rose about 7.2% in the next 24 hours, from $893 to $957. I mention the gold price, denominated in US$, because it is widely considered to be a barometer on the health of the US $.

aumar09.gif


http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2010/10/qe1-timeline.html

As outlined by the staff at CalculatedRisk, QE1 had its roots in the September 18-September 25 time-frame. Thursday September 18 was the day when the Dow crashed due to huge coordinated withdrawals by as-yet-un-named but large market participants.

September 25 was the day Washington Mutual (with $300 billion in liabilities) was assigned to Chase (who paid $2 Billion for it). As I remember it, that was the most panic-stricken week in the financial world during the 2007 to 2009 time-frame.

Various QE announcements were made during the months following September 2008, up to March 2009.

aumar09.gif



QE2 was approximately formally announced on November 3, 2010.

http://www.kitco.com/LFgif//aunov10.gif

During the weeks that followed, gold rose from 1345 to 1420, about 5.6%.


In both cases, gold retraced its steps and backed off from its short-term highs, before continuing the price increases that got it to its recent high ($1570) and today's price ($1530).


One of the land-mines that stopped the world economy during the 2008-2009 time-frame was banks' unwillingness to loan to each other, because nobody knew who had what toxic credit derivatives on their books.

Now those toxic credit derivatives have been moved onto 'the books' of the US government, though they have obviously used enough intermediaries to create a genuine hall of mirrors.

If you did into Karl Denninger's archives, you will find some great charts that show how much of the US economy is currently a "command economy" - i.e., how much of current GDP/GNP is a direct result of government stimulus.

akcs-www


It's a scary number. If you can find that chart, it will become obvious - the withdrawal of QE will remove 5 to 10% of the US economy overnight.

Of course, the GNP numbers still include government spending - the $trillions that go to defense contractors & "homeland security" contractors.

In other words, with or without QE, the US government has become a "Command Economy", not a free market - it is dependent on the government to provide enough demand to prevent a full-blown Economic Depression.


As many have pointed out, the Fukushima quake was not kind to the world economy. But since it occurred on March 11, 2011, near the end of a fiscal quarter, its full effects won't be seen until the end of the second fiscal quarter - June 30 ... coincidentally, isn't that when QE2 ends ? What a coincidence ! - in this case, I think it may actually be a coincidence.


It's very possible that even with a QE3, the US economy will crater when the world Q2 (second quarter 2011) numbers come out.

The Fukushima Quake almost destroyed the 2nd or 3rd largest economy in the world. The only reason it didn't destroy it yet is because the Japanese people are continuing their 'economic activity' in a country that has been quite liberally sprinkled with radiation, including plutonium (sprinkled would be an understatement).

The problem with QE3 is that the "Jig is Up" on the US $. Any administrator in any sovereign wealth fund on earth can dig up the Fed's money curves ... one of them is named "BOGNONBR" (Board of Governors, non borrowed reserves).

BOGNONBR_Max_630_378.png


EXCRESNS is a fun one to watch -

EXCRESNS_Max_630_378.png



Up till March 11, 2011, Japan was a net buyer of US debt instruments (aka US bonds). As of the time of the Fukushima earthquake, Japan became a net seller of US bonds.

At the same time, China, one of the other former top 3 buyers of US bonds, was following through on their threat to finance much less US debt.

And, coincidentally, within a week before March 11, 2011, Bill Gross @ PIMCO, one of the biggest private bond funds in the world, announced that they would stop buying US bonds.

In other words, the US had already lost China as a "top buyer" of US bonds by the beginning of March, 2011, and in the first 2 weeks of March, 2011, lost 2 more primary customers to finance US debt.

GAME OVER !



That the US has to finance its own debt by printing money is becoming glaringly obvious.

That's the problem with QE3 - the world knows that the US is printing money. So if the US gov. announces a QE3, the only way the US $ can maintain its value relative to other currencies is by the devaluation of those currencies.

That the US $ maintains some strength relative to the Euro is not exactly a testament to the strength of the US $.


If I was Bernanke, I would think about raising interest rates a nominal amount, to goose the US $ relative to other currencies. It won't really affect the interest costs of the US gov. that much because - they're already bankrupt (printing money to pay the interest on the debt).

They also have a strong need to goose the economy before June 30, so that the effects of the slowdown caused by Japan's collapse are less visible, to avoid a heavy-duty stock market collapse.


Just out of curiosity - how many AT members think Q2 2011 numbers (economic period April 1 to June 30, 2011) will be strong ?
 
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dullard

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May 21, 2001
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That the US has to finance its own debt by printing money is becoming glaringly obvious to everyone who doesn't allow themselves to, well, think.
I don't think that is even remotely correct. The real problem right now is that there are too MANY buyers of US debt. Yet, you claim there are too few. Evidence doesn't back up your claim. No matter how much debt we go in, people still flock to buy our bonds at pitifully small interest rates. The problem is that all these buyers are just giving crack (loans) to the addicted (congressional spending). We really, really need the buyers to go away for congress to wake up.

QE3 is likely to happen but be small. Then by the end of this year, the fed will start raising interest rates.

I expect the next quarter to be about the same as the previous ones. 2% growth after inflation. Not bad, but not great.
If I was Bernanke, I would think about raising interest rates a nominal amount, to goose the US $ relative to other currencies. It won't really affect the interest costs of the US gov. that much because - they're already bankrupt (printing money to pay the interest on the debt).
Bernanke doesn't set the interest we pay on our debt. All Bernanke can do is set the intererest rate that the banks have to pay - not the rate that the government pays. The bond markets set that rate. And as of right now, there are far too many buyers and not enough debt to sell them. Thus, the interest rate is very low.

There was a whole The Economist article about this last week. Not the one I was looking for, but essentially the same: "Oddly, one particularly influential group of observers isn’t the slightest bit worried: the people who buy bonds. If they were worried America won’t repay the principal and interest, they’d demand higher interest rates as compensation. In fact, the opposite has happened. In a little over a month, as the White House and Republicans have dug in over the issue, the yield on the 10-year Treasury bond has fallen to just 3.15% today from 3.6% a little over a month ago."
 
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yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
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As far as I've read, one of the major reasons for QE is to drive down the U.S. dollar against other currencies. This has positives and negatives but right now it would seem the positives are more numerous.
 

matt0611

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Oct 22, 2010
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Your analysis is spot on IMO. QE3 will happen, I just don't see how our economy can sustain itself if the fed stops printing money. If they stop there will be much higher interest rates and another economic downturn will soon follow, probably a lot worse than 08, then they will start printing again. This will lead to higher inflation still.

Our economy is a basket case and I don't see how we're going to come out of this in any sort of smooth landing.

I'm not selling any of my gold, thats for damn sure!
 

Anarchist420

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Feb 13, 2010
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They need to raise reserve ratios through the roof, possibly to 100%. It will be painful for some, but it would hopefully allow the bad debts to liquidate that were bailed out last time. Before they raise interest rates, however, spending needs to be slashed and Federal assets sold.
 

The-Noid

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Nov 16, 2005
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They need to raise reserve ratios through the roof, possibly to 100%. It will be painful for some, but it would hopefully allow the bad debts to liquidate that were bailed out last time. Before they raise interest rates, however, spending needs to be slashed and Federal assets sold.

You do of course realize even on the gold standard there was still fractional banking, right?

The gold standard does not equal full reserve banking. I think a lot of the nuts in this world automatically equate the gold standard to full reserve banking when trying to make their points. They couldn't be farther from the truth.

The vast majority of gold bugs often can't explain what they are trying to accomplish. The term is full reserve banking, not "The gold standard."
 

wwswimming

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Jan 21, 2006
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I don't think that is even remotely correct. The real problem right now is that there are too MANY buyers of US debt. Yet, you claim there are too few. Evidence doesn't back up your claim. No matter how much debt we go in, people still flock to buy our bonds at pitifully small interest rates. The problem is that all these buyers are just giving crack (loans) to the addicted (congressional spending). We really, really need the buyers to go away for congress to wake up.

QE3 is likely to happen but be small. Then by the end of this year, the fed will start raising interest rates.

it's not the number of buyers - it's the amount of debt that they buy.

when the big feeders (China, Japan, Pimco) go away, it doesn't matter if a bunch of small US debt buyers come along.

the bottom line is, the US is monetizing its debt, i.e. doing a sophisticated electonic equivalent of printing money.

it's also a hall of mirrors - the US gov. typically sells debt through 16 (used to be 17) primary dealers - large commercial banks who turn around and sell the bonds to other buyers, such as large sovereign wealth funds (China, Japan, Saudi Arabia).

as tracked down by Karl Denninger, in some cases the primary dealers buy the debt - then turn around and sell it right back to the US government.


as far as QE3 - who knows, maybe they will come up with a different name.

the US $ will also benefit from people fleeing the Euro - for brief moments the US $ can actually be the "safety trade", even if its fundamentals are comparable to a DEEP pool of quicksand.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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They need to raise reserve ratios through the roof, possibly to 100%. It will be painful for some, but it would hopefully allow the bad debts to liquidate that were bailed out last time. Before they raise interest rates, however, spending needs to be slashed and Federal assets sold.

Why do they need to raise reserve ratios to 100%? What do you think this will accomplish?
 

jman19

Lifer
Nov 3, 2000
11,224
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OK

People like you printing more money to enrich yourself even more at the expense of the rest of us peons and destroying the country.

The Ultimate Enron.

People like me? You don't know anything about me.

You're so clueless it's painful.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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it's not the number of buyers - it's the amount of debt that they buy.

when the big feeders (China, Japan, Pimco) go away, it doesn't matter if a bunch of small US debt buyers come along.
The key is, that these big feeders are buying more and more. They show no signs of going away and in fact seem to want to come more and more to us. Basically, they have nothing else to go away to.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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The key is, that these big feeders are buying more and more. They show no signs of going away and in fact seem to want to come more and more to us. Basically, they have nothing else to go away to.

They can't go away. China manipulates its currency in large part through the purchase of US treasuries. They aren't loaning us money out of the goodness of their hearts, if they stop their economy will tank.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
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Q2 will look good, shit wont hit the fan until Q4.*

* Unless the govt intervenes further in the economy, delaying the inevitable.