Q6600 G0 hotter than B3?

[ruusnak]

Looking at Intels specs for Q6600 processors (http://download.intel.com/desi...datashts/31559205.pdf)
it seems the new G0 stepping runs hotter than B3.
G0 max temp is 71 C (at full power - 95 watts), and B3 is cooler (62.2 C at 105 watts).
Makes me wonder if G0 really overclocks better.. any comments?

 

[kzrssk]

Originally posted by: ruusnak
Looking at Intels specs for Q6600 processors (http://download.intel.com/desi...datashts/31559205.pdf)
it seems the new G0 stepping runs hotter than B3.
G0 max temp is 71 C (at full power - 95 watts), and B3 is cooler (62.2 C at 105 watts).
Makes me wonder if G0 really overclocks better.. any comments?

I think that means that it can run hotter before throttling or shutting itself down

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: kzrssk

Originally posted by: ruusnak
Looking at Intels specs for Q6600 processors (http://download.intel.com/desi...datashts/31559205.pdf)
it seems the new G0 stepping runs hotter than B3.
G0 max temp is 71 C (at full power - 95 watts), and B3 is cooler (62.2 C at 105 watts).
Makes me wonder if G0 really overclocks better.. any comments?

I think that means that it can run hotter before throttling or shutting itself down

Correct.

 

[undeclared]

uhh

if the max temp is higher, then it can get hotter

the limiter in overclocking is how hot it can get
G0 can get hotter = can overclock more

 

[ruusnak]

G0 runs hotter to start with, and B3 at ~62 C is performance wise roughly the same as G0 at ~71 C.
If you look at the specs, you'll see that G0 runs hotter at any power input (corresponds to frequency).
Now, if we make an assumption that both chips will throttle at 80C, B3 will overclock better (this may be a false assumption though...).
But let's assume B3 can reach 80C before throttling... G0 would have to reach 90C in order to perform equally,
and that sounds a bit high

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: ruusnak
G0 runs hotter to start with, and B3 at ~62 C is performance wise roughly the same as G0 at ~71 C.
If you look at the specs, you'll see that G0 runs hotter at any power input (corresponds to frequency).
Now, if we make an assumption that both chips will throttle at 80C, B3 will overclock better (this may be a false assumption though...).
But let's assume B3 can reach 80C before throttling... G0 would have to reach 90C in order to perform equally,
and that sounds a bit high

No, The G0 has a higher limit only.

That's all it means.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: ruusnak
G0 runs hotter to start with, and B3 at ~62 C is performance wise roughly the same as G0 at ~71 C.
If you look at the specs, you'll see that G0 runs hotter at any power input (corresponds to frequency).
Now, if we make an assumption that both chips will throttle at 80C, B3 will overclock better (this may be a false assumption though...).
But let's assume B3 can reach 80C before throttling... G0 would have to reach 90C in order to perform equally,
and that sounds a bit high

With a posting record of 2, and the seeming desire to mistate a lot of info to folks who already know a lot better (please READ some of this forum's threads) you sure are gaming to raise some eyebrows.

What are you hoping to do? Convince a bunch of people that Intel's new G0 chips are worse than the old B3 chips?

I am going to do the polite thing here and not attribute to malice that which can be attributed to ignorance. Peace be with you.

 

[Accord99]

Xbitlabs found the G0 Q6700 to be cooler running that the B3 Q6700:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...e-qx6850_12.html#sect0

And since power consumption is converted almost completely to heat, the G0 Q6700 must run cooler as well.

The same is true for the G0 dual-cores vs B2 dual-cores.

 

[zero2dash]

Uhh that's a G0 Q6700 and a B3 QX6700.

Slight difference. (Yes it fooled me at first as well.)

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: zero2dash
Uhh that's a G0 Q6700 and a B3 QX6700.

Slight difference. (Yes it fooled me at first as well.)

The only difference, other than the stepping, is the unlocked multiplier of the QX6700. Both are 2.66GHz quad-cores running on a 1066MHz FSB.

 

[BenchZowner]

The G0s generally ( you can't say all, because things can change easily, let's say you get a G0 Q6600 with a convex IHS, and you get a B3 Q6600 which has a better IHS, so you get better temps with the B3 only because it's making better contact with the heatsink ) run cooler than the respectively B3 'models', and a tad less than the average overclocks better than the B3 ones, and with lower voltage as well.

rusnak, please don't misinform people.

 

[myocardia]

But let's assume B3 can reach 80C before throttling... G0 would have to reach 90C in order to perform equally,

I nominate this thread for CPU's & Overclocking's funniest of the year.:laugh:

 

[RussianSensation]

It seems the OP made an honest mistake by reading the specs off the sheet incorrectly. From the specs you can easily make an assumption if you dont know a lot about processors that one processor runs at 71*C at top load while another runs at 62.5*C. He then logically deduced that across the speed spectrum G0 must also run hotter if it runs hotter at full speed compared to B3.

Of course the specs really state the top operating temperature of each cpu implying that G0 in fact consumes less power and can sustain higher temperatures, implying potentially higher overclocks. I don't think he is trying to convince anyone that G0 is hotter, but rather he got confused and arrived at an incorrect conclusion by simply following his logic.

 

[ruusnak]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
He then logically deduced that across the speed spectrum G0 must also run hotter if it runs hotter at full speed compared to B3.

In fact I didn't draw much conclusions at all, the graph in the specs clearly state that G0 runs hotter than B3 at any power input.

To all: I'm not trying to mislead anyone, I just find disturbing that the Intel's graph is what it is... has anyone really taken a look at the graphs in the spec sheet?

 

[MarcVenice]

page not found ... sorry ... I'd look but I think some people are right on the money here, and that you are confused. I might revise my statement if I get a working link and can have a look myself.

 

[ruusnak]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
page not found ... sorry ... I'd look but I think some people are right on the money here, and that you are confused. I might revise my statement if I get a working link and can have a look myself.

The closing bracket in the link was accidentally included... try this
http://download.intel.com:80/d.../datashts/31559205.pdf

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: ruusnak

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
He then logically deduced that across the speed spectrum G0 must also run hotter if it runs hotter at full speed compared to B3.

In fact I didn't draw much conclusions at all, the graph in the specs clearly state that G0 runs hotter than B3 at any power input.

To all: I'm not trying to mislead anyone, I just find disturbing that the Intel's graph is what it is... has anyone really taken a look at the graphs in the spec sheet?

No it only states the tolerances are higher at those levels. Yes I read through it. Everything related to temperature is shown as Maximum limits.

I guess you're calling everyone who has had both a B3 and a G0 and also claims that the G0 is cooler at idle and under load. Also allowing higher overclocks because the heat output is less of a factor, liars?

 

[Mattz0r]

Originally posted by: ruusnak

The closing bracket in the link was accidentally included... try this
http://download.intel.com:80/d.../datashts/31559205.pdf

I believe the pages you're referring to are 74 and 75 in the document...

As for the information, I think you're looking at the information in the reverse of what it is intending to convey. For example, let's take the 95W measure of the "Thermal Profile 95 W Processors" table and compare it to the 95W measure of the "Thermal Profile 105W Processors." By glancing at it, one COULD conclude that the operating temperature of the 105W processor (B3) was better, because it is rated at something between 60.3-60.6, while the 95W one (G0) is rated at 71. I think, however, the only thing Intel is trying to convey with these tables is that the 95W G0 can actually run stably at a temperature of 71 at it's full power load, while the 105W B3 should only be running at something between 60.3-60.6. This would also indicate that the G0 in fact is a superior chip, as it can tolerate a higher temperature at the same voltage. The table does NOT, as far as I understand, indicate at all that the G0 runs hotter than the B3; it only indicates that the G0 is able to tolerate a higher heat at the same wattage.

My 2c.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Mattz0r

Originally posted by: ruusnak

The closing bracket in the link was accidentally included... try this
http://download.intel.com:80/d.../datashts/31559205.pdf

I believe the pages you're referring to are 74 and 75 in the document...

As for the information, I think you're looking at the information in the reverse of what it is intending to convey. For example, let's take the 95W measure of the "Thermal Profile 95 W Processors" table and compare it to the 95W measure of the "Thermal Profile 105W Processors." By glancing at it, one COULD conclude that the operating temperature of the 105W processor (B3) was better, because it is rated at something between 60.3-60.6, while the 95W one (G0) is rated at 71. I think, however, the only thing Intel is trying to convey with these tables is that the 95W G0 can actually run stably at a temperature of 71 at it's full power load, while the 105W B3 should only be running at something between 60.3-60.6. This would also indicate that the G0 in fact is a superior chip, as it can tolerate a higher temperature at the same voltage. The table does NOT, as far as I understand, indicate at all that the G0 runs hotter than the B3; it only indicates that the G0 is able to tolerate a higher heat at the same wattage.

My 2c.

exactly right

 

[AkumaX]

Originally posted by: ruusnak
G0 runs hotter to start with, and B3 at ~62 C is performance wise roughly the same as G0 at ~71 C.
If you look at the specs, you'll see that G0 runs hotter at any power input (corresponds to frequency).
Now, if we make an assumption that both chips will throttle at 80C, B3 will overclock better (this may be a false assumption though...).
But let's assume B3 can reach 80C before throttling... G0 would have to reach 90C in order to perform equally,
and that sounds a bit high

wow.

a B3 @ 90w = maximum Tc is 59.5°C
a G0 @ 90w = maximum Tc is 69.6°C

that means a B3 will have "serious" problems if its running @ 90w and the Temp > 59.5°.
OR you could have a G0 running @ 90w, and the max Temp it can go is 69.6° before it reaches "problems".

wtf are you talking about?

 

[Mattz0r]

I think ruusnak just mistook the Maxium Tc as the operating temperature. Everyone makes mistakes.

 

[MarcVenice]

Do you know what Tcase is? "The case temperature of the processor, measured at the geometric center of the topside of the IHS."

It's clearly explained in the article. "To allow for the optimal operation and long-term reliability of Intel processor-based systems, the system/processor thermal solution should be designed such that the processor remains within the minimum and maximum case temperature (TC) specifications when operating at or below the Thermal Design Power (TDP) value listed per frequency in Table 26."

This leaves me to believe that the maximum tcase temperature for the q6600 b3 stepping, tdp of 105w, to operate at, can be 62c, where as this can be 71c for the g0 stepping of the q6600. So the q6600 g0 stepping can simply take more punishment from heat before crapping out. I'm no super techguy, and I prolly misunderstood myself and explained it completely wrong, but you can read more about Tcase and such here: ftp://download.intel.com/desig.../designex/31559405.pdf

 

[Markfw]

Marc, you are totally correct. ruusnak is totally wrong. It actually runs a little cooler at the same vcore and speed, but can withstand more punishment to boot !

 

[ruusnak]

Originally posted by: Markfw900It actually runs a little cooler at the same vcore and speed, but can withstand more punishment to boot !

The evidence to support your statement is not in the Intel specs IMO...
AFAIK there are no tests showing the actual temps of G0 and B3 at the same speed, everyone seems to be making assumptions based on the power draw (which is not a bad basis for making that conclusion, I must admit).
But I'm glad if I'm wrong, I've postponed my purchase (waiting for G0), I just want to make sure I'm not waiting for a processor that doesn't overclock as well as B3.

And please guys, I just saw something interesting in the Intel spec sheet, and wanted someone to shed some light on why less power draw potentially means more heat (I can't figure that out... )

 

[Markfw]

It doesn't mean more heat ! It means it can run hotter before it implodes ! And there is a lot of evidence that they run cooler all over the web. And it because they DO use less power.