Q10 = RIM saviour, or blip before crash?

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JAG87

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
3,921
3
76
Yes, you do.
Grabbing a few million dollars from the early adopters is a great way to make some money, and lessen product shortages. I fully expect this phone to be at $99 subsidized by July 1st. Comparing launch price to 'old product' price for competitors isn't terribly honest.


You're talking about $150 difference (soon enough to be less or none at all) for a 3-year $2500-4000 contract. Within reason, you should be getting what you want/need, not trying to save small amounts of money. If you're making your decision on something like that based on a 3-5% difference, you're probably doing it wrong.


Buddy, you have no idea how much subsidized price affects the market. You clearly don't know anything are just talking out of your behind.

Most corporations don't want anything besides $0 devices. Except for special approvals for higher up execs, most people get the standard $0 devices and that's it. The company is not going to spend $199 x i.e. 2000 devices = $40000, when they can give phones to everyone for $0. The reason why my company has now transitioned to 80% iOS is because the iPhone 4 went down to $0. All the meanwhile RIM discontinued their $0 Curves, and our vendor was forced to give us first the 9790 at $0, and now the 9900 at $0.

The real driving force behind telco revenues is corporations, not consumers. And the Q10 is simply not a $700 device, nor a $199 device. Especially when it requires us to spend more money for BES10. RIM needs to get a grip on reality.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
Buddy, you have no idea how much subsidized price affects the market. You clearly don't know anything are just talking out of your behind.

Most corporations don't want anything besides $0 devices. Except for special approvals for higher up execs, most people get the standard $0 devices and that's it. The company is not going to spend $199 x i.e. 2000 devices = $40000, when they can give phones to everyone for $0. The reason why my company has now transitioned to 80% iOS is because the iPhone 4 went down to $0. All the meanwhile RIM discontinued their $0 Curves, and our vendor was forced to give us first the 9790 at $0, and now the 9900 at $0.

The real driving force behind telco revenues is corporations, not consumers. And the Q10 is simply not a $700 device, nor a $199 device. Especially when it requires us to spend more money for BES10. RIM needs to get a grip on reality.
What's your point, exactly, because I'm not seeing one.

The phone looks like it is going to sell well, and a couple million units at $100-premium is nothing to sneeze at.

No-one expected this thing to launch at $0. So you're getting worked up over $50-100 difference from where you think the price should be. Which is exactly where it will be, in a couple of months. There will also be $0 devices soon enough.

I believe you are the one losing touch here.
 

JAG87

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
3,921
3
76
What's your point, exactly, because I'm not seeing one.

The phone looks like it is going to sell well, and a couple million units at $100-premium is nothing to sneeze at.

No-one expected this thing to launch at $0. So you're getting worked up over $50-100 difference from where you think the price should be. Which is exactly where it will be, in a couple of months. There will also be $0 devices soon enough.

I believe you are the one losing touch here.


My point is that $199 is awfully optimistic for a brand that has lost tons of market share because they had nothing on the plate for years, and even went as far to re-brand themselves as a worthy competitor in the smartphone market. The iPhone, which has always been conceived as a luxury product, has always launched at $159, and this year they dared push to $179. To think that RIM thinks so highly of their product to launch at $199, is laughable no matter how quickly they reduce the price. It further goes to show that it was a rip-off to begin with (since the Z10, already dropped), and that the flocks rushing to pre-order it are just brainwashed fanboys willing to pay any dollar amount.

Here, read the comments for yourself to see how out of touch I am:

http://mobilesyrup.com/2013/04/23/blackberry-q10-launching-in-canada-on-may-1st/
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
My point is that $199 is awfully optimistic for a brand that has lost tons of market share because they had nothing on the plate for years, and even went as far to re-brand themselves as a worthy competitor in the smartphone market. The iPhone, which has always been conceived as a luxury product, has always launched at $159, and this year they dared push to $179. To think that RIM thinks so highly of their product to launch at $199, is laughable no matter how quickly they reduce the price. It further goes to show that it was a rip-off to begin with (since the Z10, already dropped), and that the flocks rushing to pre-order it are just brainwashed fanboys willing to pay any dollar amount.

Here, read the comments for yourself to see how out of touch I am:

http://mobilesyrup.com/2013/04/23/blackberry-q10-launching-in-canada-on-may-1st/

I see a mixed bag of comments.

Some people whine about pricing no matter what the price is.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,081
136
Coming June 5th according to CNET.

http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/Phones/cell-phone-detail.aspx?cell-phone=Blackberry -Q10

Verizon and others get it a little later.

Personally I think the typical user at this point is a professional who needs BB Exchange, and I dont know if IT departments are going to have to work extra hard to integrate a completely new OS.

Seems to me most kiddies want the iphone these days. If they cant afford the latest they'd rather have an iphone 4 than a top of the line android or blackberry.
I havent actually seen anyone carrying around WP8 yet.

Oh, the Q10.
If my moms IT guys can get it working then I will buy one for her B-day this August.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
Well, on the enterprise level, it's still BES - so I have to imagine it's pretty seamless to add, unlike, say, going from Windows Mobile to Windows Phone.
 

OBLAMA2009

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2008
6,574
3
0
there are still people out there that have never had anything other than a blackberry and who have never tried a real smartphone who will robotically choose the next bb device. those people are buying now. in a month or two sales will fall like a rock, just like they are doing with lumia
 

bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,605
3
81
I just ordered 4 of these on Verizon. VZW says they will ship by the 6th so I should get them on the 7th.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
I got the Q10 today. My feelings are mixed, although on the whole, I do like it. The hardware mimics the 9900, but honestly, screen quality aside the 9900 was better - it was more ergonomic and the angled keyboard was better. Similarly, clearly BB10 was designed for touch, so while it does work well, it worked better on the Z10, and I do miss the buttons of the 9900 - I reach for the trackpad and back/home all the time.

That said, as a sum of its parts, it's a solid device so far. The keyboard is still very good, and I actually really like the screen - it's sharp, and the AMOLED is done well without too much oversaturation.
 

pantsaregood

Senior member
Feb 13, 2011
993
37
91
there are still people out there that have never had anything other than a blackberry and who have never tried a real smartphone who will robotically choose the next bb device. those people are buying now. in a month or two sales will fall like a rock, just like they are doing with lumia

What are you talking about? BlackBerry market share has been in freefall for some time, and Nokia's (and Windows Phone's) market share has been on the rise. American share has made it to 6% without a device on Sprint, or a high-end device on Verizon. The presence of the Lumia 928 on Verizon and Lumia 521 on T-Mobile is likely to further increase that.

Lumia 920 sales never fell like a rock, either. It was in AT&T's top 3 for five months, so that's not "falling like a rock." The Z10 completely failed to make top 3 on any carriers.
 

bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,605
3
81
I got my Q10's today as well and I agree with Deeko. Its a very solid device. In fact, I like it better than the Z10. I think its far easier to hold and the keyboard goes along way. While I think BB10 was designed for touch, I feel like it was also designed to be used in conjunction with a keyboard like this.

I don't think it will save BB, that fate has been sealed for some time, I do think its a wonderful bridge device. This is what they needed 3 years ago. A device with a great touch UI and the familiar BB format.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,081
136
Over the last 5 years, Nokia has gone from 40% to 3% market share.

They picked up since adopting WP8, but Nokia will never see those kinds of numbers again. Not unless they debut something completely awesome and that isnt gonna happen.
 

MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,460
3
76
I saw one, handled it, and for text/email addicts it's probably very good, but the display almost seems cartoonishly small now, compared to competitors. It isn't targeted at me, but would be great for people who send 100+ texts /day.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
The thing about it is....even as a BlackBerry, it falls flat. For well over a year, I carried both my Bold 9900 and another phone - generally a Lumia of sorts, sometimes something else. The keyboard / text / email experience was just that good on the Bold. The Q10, on the other hand, I can't say the same. The keyboard and the overall feel of the phone is just nowhere near as good as the 9900's, and the quality of the screen isn't very good - it's dim, it washes out in the sun. The BlackBerry hub is both convenient and incredibly annoying at the same time. It's just poorly executed, which is disappointing.
 

smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
3,382
17
81
My 9780 is pushing 4 years old. The GPS doesn't work at all. WiFi is very poor (1 bar when standing 10 feet from the router in an empty room). It constantly drops calls and the signal just seems to randomly fluctuate between SOS, gprs, EDGE and 3G. The speaker for the phone is barely audible so I mostly use the speakerphone when talking to people. However, the physical keyboard is just so much nicer to use for text and e-mail that I have waited nearly a year and a half for the Q10.

Words can't convey how disappointed I am with the introduction of the Q10. I've been to the T-Mobile store 4 or 5 times to handle it and while the device is still the best choice for me, it still has some serious drawbacks, not the least of which is the price. How is it that the only people on planet earth that couldn't figure out that it's not a $600 phone are the people at Blackberry. And they still can't figure it out. It's been out 3 months, inventory is backing up at the warehouse, suppliers are returning handsets and for some reason they are clinging to the $600 price point that late adopters are certainly not going to pay. Every time I go to T-Mobile they have stories about customer after customer that chased down the elusive Blackberry for a year or more like I did and then said f#&@ it when they saw how proud Blackberry was. Does Blackberry think there are 2 million loyal customers that have been on vacation for 3 months on an island without cell service that are suddenly gonna jump off the plane and run to the nearest cell shop and trade in their old BB?

Here's what Blackberry HAD over everything else:

#1- The keyboard

Let's not even start with the redesigned keyboard. Why in the hell did they abandon the curved keyboard? If you are really trying to win back/retain your loyal BB fan base, why do you go and change the configuration of the only substantial, physical property that distinguishes your phone from all the other offerings? Bigger buttons do not make it easier to type when the buttons are not in the right place. Does the keyboard feel better than anything else out there? Absolutely. Is it better than my 9700 or 9780? Nope, especially not for $600.

#2- Battery life that was so much better than other smartphones that it didn't even seem fair.

What happened to 3 or 4 days of standby time and 2 days of hard use without recharging? Great. Now it's like an efficient Android with half the hardware specs.

#3- Physical button layout.

My 97xx sits in my hand and my index finger sits right across the upper left hand corner of the top. Guess what this is. The lock/unlock. Done with a call? Just press down where your index finger is already resting and the phone is locked. Thanks for dumping the camera button, too. Other BB phones are less than 3 seconds from button push to photograph. Thanks for complicating the process of taking photos with your ingenious touch screen. Oh, you've added an HDMI port in place of a convenience key. Thank you, I can't tell you often I have walked by an HD TV and thought to myself, "Self, I wish I could use my cell phone like a BR player except without the ability to play Blu-Ray discs." Stupid. This should have been an afterthought if the space was there. Reserved for the true techno geek that would have gravitated to the Z10, anyway.

Is it a nice phone? Absolutely. Is BB10 a big step forward? Definitely. I would pay for the advances and accept some of the setbacks, but this is a $400 phone, Max. Screw your subsidized pricing, Blackberry. When I can go in and just buy one at that price with cash or my credit card, let me know. I sure hope it happens in the next week or two cuz the more I get comfortable with Swype on my tablet PC, the more attractive that Nexus 4 looks at 1/3 the price.

Talk about a company that has no grasp on reality. Blackberry is like that frat boy that just never figured out there's life after college and eventually ends up just living in his Mom's basement. He can still be fun to hang out with, but they just can't seem to get over themselves and just keep over estimating their own value thinking their loyal fans will just keep lining up.

Blackberry is Stiffler.
 
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gotsmack

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2001
5,768
0
71
I got the Q10 the first day it was released. It's a good phone and I like the OS a lot better than Android 4.0 I was using. I really like how BB kinda expects you to force close programs, while android just keeps then running in the background.

The thing is that BB OS10 has been out for a while and the apps that people need for day to day life aren't there, like banking and brokerage apps. Sure it's annoying to only be able to use a crap version of google services, but it's difficult to function properly on the go if I can't properly pay bills online from my phone.

I really hope a company like Oracle buys BBRY, because I can really see them going back to their roots as being a niche player in business communications. It would also be a really good selling point if there was exclusive secure interface with enterprise software.

As far as the consumer market goes, BBRY is done, atleast until the apps get developed.
 

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,695
117
106
My friend is a die hard BB keyboard fan and he got a Q10. I went with him to Verizon and T-Mobile and asked if they sell any of them. They told me they maybe push 1 a month if that.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
24,061
1,707
126
My friend has the Z10, and he thinks the Z10 with the new OS10 is the best OS out there in terms of ergonomics and flow. He thinks Android doesn't flow well, and I agree, and he thinks iOS (not counting iOS 7) is getting dated, which I also agree somewhat.

However, he also says that the Q10 (which his wife now has) destroys the feel of the new OS. The screen size kills it, especially in comparison to the Z10.

And of course, there is the dearth of apps.

P.S. I predicted the demise of BB because I hated their phones, but I predicted that about 8 years ago, even before the iPhone 1st gen came out. They've lasted longer than I expected but it seems they really are toast now, because Q10 sales have apparently been terrible even in Toronto, just a stone's throw away from Blackberry headquarters.
 
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