PvP-University?

[Lazy8s]

I am thinking about getting back into the game since the corp I used to be apart of finally joined a 0.0 alliance. I wanted the 0.0 aspect and all the PvP but my corp just wasn't there yet so I took a break and saved my money. Anyways the alliance Navy is recruiting and the corp is going to send members to PvP-University before they submit us for the alliance navy so we don't look flaccid and shameful on the battlefield. Anyways, my question to you eve players is: Have you gone or sent people to or know people that have been to PvP-U? Was it worthwhile? Have you found some other type of PvP training more useful?

I'm not an idiot pilot in Eve for certain. I had a battleship at 900k SP and I got most of my isk ratting or anti-pirating in mid-low sec so it's not like I don't have any kills. One of my major complaints of Eve was that there doesn't seem to be any skill involved. Outfitting your ship is important but that's not skill, it's experience and knowledge. Actually flying and fighting is just clicking some buttons and letting the auto-pilot do all of it. Is there any actual skill to be learned from experienced pilots? Perhaps, but it doesn't seem so. Anyways, thoughts? Ideas?


Here's the link incase you're thinking "Wtf is he talking about?":
http://www.agony-unleashed.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3

 

[Kadarin]

From experienced pilots you will learn how to work as a team, including:

Voice comms on TS or Ventrilo.
Appropriate ship types and fittings for small to medium gangs, up to large fleets.
Tactics for various situations.
Getting over the fear of losing your ship/pod in combat.
The satisfaction of working with others toward common goals.

So I'd say it would very likely be worth the experience if you want to get more into the pvp aspect of the game.

 

[Genx87]

Having just started playing this game last week, I will be doing this. But not until sometime in the fall once I get a decent ship and have a better idea of wtf I am doing in non-pvp areas

Great idea these guys have that is for sure, the cool thing I love about EVE, it is open ended.

 

[Lazy8s]

Yeah, right now I am debating starting up again or not. I know I would be playing if my account were open but I'm just struggling to part with my $15. I know it's not that much but I would much rather trade isk for a time card. Too bad I gave away almost 300mil isk before I quit. I didn't know at the time you could trade. :-/

I am a FPS addict. For me it's all about the PvP. I don't care if I ever touch a mining laser or go into a complex. It's all about my skills vs their skills. Perhaps this is my problem with MMOs (I have played since EQ was released) but I hate that time=skill in MMOs. Why can't skill=skill? Perhaps I would feel differently if I was terrible at it but I don't think there's anything wrong with a good PvPer actually being good at it, not just spending 10hrs a day playing. Like in CS or Unreal, you actually have to be good. Sure the awp is cheap....if you're GOOD! Everyone that complains about it only complains because they suck with it. Otherwise they would pick up the gun and kill you with it.

Maybe I just got a bad taste because when I started Eve we got war decced by a corp that had 4 members and over 60mil sp total while out corp had 5 members and under 6mil SP total. There was no such thing as fair. We were better pilots with better fitting designs but it's impossible to beat tech 2 ships with all tech 2 fittings firing tech 2 guns with tech 1 ships.

So yeah. Waht am I trying to say? Skill>time, Eve>bored, Me=rambling and rant=over. I may just ante up and try this out.

 

[neutralizer]

I went straight from carebearing (ie mining and missioning) to 0.0 to PVP in an alliance navy. I find that with practice and teamwork, it's easier to learn rather than going through extensive training. No matter how much training you receive, nothing is worth more than experience. Like Astaroth33 said, you gotta get over the PVP jitters though.

 

[nsafreak]

Originally posted by: Lazy8s
Yeah, right now I am debating starting up again or not. I know I would be playing if my account were open but I'm just struggling to part with my $15. I know it's not that much but I would much rather trade isk for a time card. Too bad I gave away almost 300mil isk before I quit. I didn't know at the time you could trade. :-/

I am a FPS addict. For me it's all about the PvP. I don't care if I ever touch a mining laser or go into a complex. It's all about my skills vs their skills. Perhaps this is my problem with MMOs (I have played since EQ was released) but I hate that time=skill in MMOs. Why can't skill=skill? Perhaps I would feel differently if I was terrible at it but I don't think there's anything wrong with a good PvPer actually being good at it, not just spending 10hrs a day playing. Like in CS or Unreal, you actually have to be good. Sure the awp is cheap....if you're GOOD! Everyone that complains about it only complains because they suck with it. Otherwise they would pick up the gun and kill you with it.

Maybe I just got a bad taste because when I started Eve we got war decced by a corp that had 4 members and over 60mil sp total while out corp had 5 members and under 6mil SP total. There was no such thing as fair. We were better pilots with better fitting designs but it's impossible to beat tech 2 ships with all tech 2 fittings firing tech 2 guns with tech 1 ships.

So yeah. Waht am I trying to say? Skill>time, Eve>bored, Me=rambling and rant=over. I may just ante up and try this out.

My corp fights against odds (numerically and skillpoint wise) almost all of the time. Yet we typically win and that's because of tactics. And while you say that there is no skill to actual combat I have to disagree especially if you're flying a rail/blaster based ship. You have to get your orbit at just the right transversal with the right range and keep it there. You also have to try and make it so that the opposing ship (if using rails/blasters) can not get a good transversal on you. Granted it doesn't apply to missile ships so much but there is some skill involved in flying a gunnery type ship.

 

[Nebor]

My obligatory: EVE Online is easily the worst game I've ever played.

 

[neutralizer]

Originally posted by: Nebor
My obligatory: EVE Online is easily the worst game I've ever played.

I guess your attention span is better suited towards WoW, huh?

 

[Lazy8s]

Originally posted by: nsafreak

Originally posted by: Lazy8s
Yeah, right now I am debating starting up again or not. I know I would be playing if my account were open but I'm just struggling to part with my $15. I know it's not that much but I would much rather trade isk for a time card. Too bad I gave away almost 300mil isk before I quit. I didn't know at the time you could trade. :-/

I am a FPS addict. For me it's all about the PvP. I don't care if I ever touch a mining laser or go into a complex. It's all about my skills vs their skills. Perhaps this is my problem with MMOs (I have played since EQ was released) but I hate that time=skill in MMOs. Why can't skill=skill? Perhaps I would feel differently if I was terrible at it but I don't think there's anything wrong with a good PvPer actually being good at it, not just spending 10hrs a day playing. Like in CS or Unreal, you actually have to be good. Sure the awp is cheap....if you're GOOD! Everyone that complains about it only complains because they suck with it. Otherwise they would pick up the gun and kill you with it.

Maybe I just got a bad taste because when I started Eve we got war decced by a corp that had 4 members and over 60mil sp total while out corp had 5 members and under 6mil SP total. There was no such thing as fair. We were better pilots with better fitting designs but it's impossible to beat tech 2 ships with all tech 2 fittings firing tech 2 guns with tech 1 ships.

So yeah. Waht am I trying to say? Skill>time, Eve>bored, Me=rambling and rant=over. I may just ante up and try this out.

My corp fights against odds (numerically and skillpoint wise) almost all of the time. Yet we typically win and that's because of tactics. And while you say that there is no skill to actual combat I have to disagree especially if you're flying a rail/blaster based ship. You have to get your orbit at just the right transversal with the right range and keep it there. You also have to try and make it so that the opposing ship (if using rails/blasters) can not get a good transversal on you. Granted it doesn't apply to missile ships so much but there is some skill involved in flying a gunnery type ship.

Well I re-upped last night. I'm not saying there IS no skill (did I? if so my bad) just that I can't see how there would be any skill. Perhaps it is because I'm a caldari fighter (mistake) and there's nothing to know except keep your distance. I have heard that there is skill in large battles but I have not gotten to participate in one yet. We shall see if I can't enjoy it a little more as time goes on.

As for eve being the worst game ever: I think you may have played the wrong game and thought it was Eve. Eve is not everyone's cup of tea but you must not play many games for it to be the worst ever.

 

[Kadarin]

^^ I agree. EVE is definitely not for everyone. However, if you can get into it, it can be very rewarding.

 

[neutralizer]

Originally posted by: Lazy8s

Originally posted by: nsafreak

Originally posted by: Lazy8s
Yeah, right now I am debating starting up again or not. I know I would be playing if my account were open but I'm just struggling to part with my $15. I know it's not that much but I would much rather trade isk for a time card. Too bad I gave away almost 300mil isk before I quit. I didn't know at the time you could trade. :-/

I am a FPS addict. For me it's all about the PvP. I don't care if I ever touch a mining laser or go into a complex. It's all about my skills vs their skills. Perhaps this is my problem with MMOs (I have played since EQ was released) but I hate that time=skill in MMOs. Why can't skill=skill? Perhaps I would feel differently if I was terrible at it but I don't think there's anything wrong with a good PvPer actually being good at it, not just spending 10hrs a day playing. Like in CS or Unreal, you actually have to be good. Sure the awp is cheap....if you're GOOD! Everyone that complains about it only complains because they suck with it. Otherwise they would pick up the gun and kill you with it.

Maybe I just got a bad taste because when I started Eve we got war decced by a corp that had 4 members and over 60mil sp total while out corp had 5 members and under 6mil SP total. There was no such thing as fair. We were better pilots with better fitting designs but it's impossible to beat tech 2 ships with all tech 2 fittings firing tech 2 guns with tech 1 ships.

So yeah. Waht am I trying to say? Skill>time, Eve>bored, Me=rambling and rant=over. I may just ante up and try this out.

My corp fights against odds (numerically and skillpoint wise) almost all of the time. Yet we typically win and that's because of tactics. And while you say that there is no skill to actual combat I have to disagree especially if you're flying a rail/blaster based ship. You have to get your orbit at just the right transversal with the right range and keep it there. You also have to try and make it so that the opposing ship (if using rails/blasters) can not get a good transversal on you. Granted it doesn't apply to missile ships so much but there is some skill involved in flying a gunnery type ship.

Well I re-upped last night. I'm not saying there IS no skill (did I? if so my bad) just that I can't see how there would be any skill. Perhaps it is because I'm a caldari fighter (mistake) and there's nothing to know except keep your distance. I have heard that there is skill in large battles but I have not gotten to participate in one yet. We shall see if I can't enjoy it a little more as time goes on.

As for eve being the worst game ever: I think you may have played the wrong game and thought it was Eve. Eve is not everyone's cup of tea but you must not play many games for it to be the worst ever.

A lot of the skill is getting creative with your fittings. Also manual pilotting ftw.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: neutralizer

Originally posted by: Nebor
My obligatory: EVE Online is easily the worst game I've ever played.

I guess your attention span is better suited towards WoW, huh?

Which is funny when you think about it. With the offline skill advancement it takes less time to play the game.

My friend plays WoW. He is up until 1 AM every night trying to do things. Since playing EVE I am in bed by 11:00 and get a nice nigh of sleep everynight. The grind in EVE is money driven but you can do that in so many ways it will make your head spin.

Not to mention the sheer amount of other stuff you can do.

 

[fishbits]

Perhaps it is because I'm a caldari fighter

Can't miss from point-blank to extreme range? Yeah, that might be a factor.

I'm torn on what to advise you to do. First impulse is to say just go for it. You'll get experience, things to do, might learn something and have some fun. However, it sounds like you're struggling to find ways to have fun with the game, and trying to talk yourself into it. If that's the case, just walk away and find something else to do. Save your money and/or time. Dunno.

As for wanting MMOs to be like FPSs, good luck with that. With an FPS you've paid in full for the game up front whether you play for 10 or 1000 hours. With an MMO, it's in the company's interest to keep you and everyone else subscribed and playing as much as possible. If some guy wants to immerse himself in the fantasy/sci-fi setting and quickly finds out he can't get anywhere without being a bunny-hopping min-maxed twitcher, he'll move on elsewhere. No time to get his goth/emo RP groove on, no point in trying to recover the Goblet of Glakthax. "Skill" in a video game is largely illusion anyhow, unless talking about the rarified air with members so few they can't justify development/ server/ support costs. People in MMOs don't want to feel their characters are nobody's in the game world. It doesn't mean that skill isn't a factor even in the most hand-holding MMO, but between minimizing the impact of lag/system specs, preventing cheats and keeping the game accessible, you're going to see its impact minimized.

Sounds like you want an "MMO" that is an FPS with phat lewt and no pretense at immersion. Even then, you'll see the game fail because no one new wants to play because "ZOMG I can't do anything against the geared-up vets." Thus the lewt has to be toned down to the point it's optional, which means just go play an FPS in the first place.

 

[DannyLove]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: neutralizer

Originally posted by: Nebor
My obligatory: EVE Online is easily the worst game I've ever played.

I guess your attention span is better suited towards WoW, huh?

Which is funny when you think about it. With the offline skill advancement it takes less time to play the game.

My friend plays WoW. He is up until 1 AM every night trying to do things. Since playing EVE I am in bed by 11:00 and get a nice nigh of sleep everynight. The grind in EVE is money driven but you can do that in so many ways it will make your head spin.

Not to mention the sheer amount of other stuff you can do.

yup. WoW is for the simple minded, where-as Eve is for those that like to use the brain finding various ways to make money or specialize.

Good thing too, as that process weeds out the kiddies, but not all of them unfortunately.

danny~!