PvP Flagging in Warhammer? Lame

[Reckoner]

From the RvR Devs:


"Phase one of our improvements to open world RvR is under way, with changes to PvP flagging up first. Players can now PvP flag themselves, although the regular rules apply for removing the flag. Guards (and some other NPCs) in the Chapter hubs will PvP flag any enemy player foolish enough to engage them in combat. We've also added more guards to the warcamp entrances across all pairings and tiers. Still in progress are changes to the battlefield objectives, but we aren't quite ready to share those details yet."
-RvR Team



This game keeps looking worse and worse as it progresses.


Link to Full Beta Update

 

[pontifex]

ruh roh! you can't gank low level players now?

 

[Reckoner]

Originally posted by: pontifex
ruh roh! you can't gank low level players now?

What it means is now an enemy can enter the same pve areas as you, disable the pvp flag, and there's nothing you can do about it. Not exactly a thrilling idea considering the game is called Warhammer.

 

[pontifex]

a warhammer is a weapon. are all the weapons in the game warhammers? i mean the game IS called Warhammer...

it seems like its always the same type of people who complain about stuff like this - leet dood gankers. not that i'm suggesting you're one of them, but those are the only type of people that i can imagine having an issue with this.

if i wanted to spend my limited play time doing a pve quest (something I want to do witn my time and technically my money), i shouldn't have to worry about some idiot with nothing better to do than to harass me.

 

[Genx87]

EA is getting thier hands involved I see. Clearly trying to make it WoWesque with the hope it will somehow be as successful.

Should be interesting to see how else they will dumb it down for the masses by release.

 

[Reckoner]

The game just seems like a wow clone at this point. I have no problem with PvE safe zones, (I played DAoC for a few years, and loved the pve/rvr designated zone structure). But if you enter an enemy territory's pve zone, you should be attackable. If I'm in the minority regarding this, then it is what it is.


Edit: Although this was from a couple years ago, and a lot can change in that time, it seemed Mark Jacobs was steadfast against this type of system. What changed?

"Folks,

Consensual - Going into a dangerous area, going into enemy territory, etc. It does not mean getting somebody's permission before killing them. That would be silly here.

Flagging - Not going to happen. I believe I'm actually the guy who used PvP flagging/switch for the first time (not sure on this though) back in '85. If used properly, it can be quite useful. It doesn't fit into WAR at all.

And I agree, evil should be more subtle than simply going up to a guy and killing him easily 5 times in a row because he's level 1 and you're level 4,999.

Mark"

 

[pontifex]

oh, if you're in enemy territory, then yeah, i can agree with you. you didn't say that in your op and i didn't go to the link.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Genx87
EA is getting thier hands involved I see. Clearly trying to make it WoWesque with the hope it will somehow be as successful.

Should be interesting to see how else they will dumb it down for the masses by release.

The people spoke with their money. They told every MMORPG developer out there that they don't want a complex or engaging game, but, rather, a nice shiny treadmill.

 

[Vortex22]

Seems like every MMO after WoW has started off as something "fresh and new" but ended up just being a lower quality version of WoW.

 

[lupi]

I thought this game was supposed to be pvp.

 

[Oakenfold]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats

Originally posted by: pontifex
ruh roh! you can't gank low level players now?

What it means is now an enemy can enter the same pve areas as you, disable the pvp flag, and there's nothing you can do about it. Not exactly a thrilling idea considering the game is called Warhammer.

That's really weak. It should be PvP on or PvE only. This game is starting to sound like WoW.

Originally posted by: pontifex
it seems like its always the same type of people who complain about stuff like this - leet dood gankers. not that i'm suggesting you're one of them, but those are the only type of people that i can imagine having an issue with this.

if i wanted to spend my limited play time doing a pve quest (something I want to do witn my time and technically my money), i shouldn't have to worry about some idiot with nothing better to do than to harass me.

I disagree. The beauty of pvp is that it makes doing that quest that much harder and imo it makes it more real. The risk vs. reward concept, you appreciate the little things that much more plus don't you think by having certain protections in place it makes the game less realistic?
I'll give an example, orc is farming ore, nightelf is also farming ore. They both want the ore. They have racial tensions, would it not be assumed that they would fight over that which they desire? With protections in place (level limits, zone protection, team protections) it prevents this natural occurrence from happening.

Just my .02 Pontifex.

A general comment, I thought the goal of this game was to cater more towards the pvp crowd?

 

[Kur]

In some of their developer video blogs they are huge on PVP zones, PVP this, PVP that, but PVP flagging? That's not part of PVP, that's being a carebear.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Oakenfold

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats

Originally posted by: pontifex
ruh roh! you can't gank low level players now?

What it means is now an enemy can enter the same pve areas as you, disable the pvp flag, and there's nothing you can do about it. Not exactly a thrilling idea considering the game is called Warhammer.

That's really weak. It should be PvP on or PvE only. This game is starting to sound like WoW.

Originally posted by: pontifex
it seems like its always the same type of people who complain about stuff like this - leet dood gankers. not that i'm suggesting you're one of them, but those are the only type of people that i can imagine having an issue with this.

if i wanted to spend my limited play time doing a pve quest (something I want to do witn my time and technically my money), i shouldn't have to worry about some idiot with nothing better to do than to harass me.

I disagree. The beauty of pvp is that it makes doing that quest that much harder and imo it makes it more real. The risk vs. reward concept, you appreciate the little things that much more plus don't you think by having certain protections in place it makes the game less realistic?
I'll give an example, orc is farming ore, nightelf is also farming ore. They both want the ore. They have racial tensions, would it not be assumed that they would fight over that which they desire? With protections in place (level limits, zone protection, team protections) it prevents this natural occurrence from happening.

Just my .02 Pontifex.

A general comment, I thought the goal of this game was to cater more towards the pvp crowd?

you do have a point. but fireballs and dragons are realistic? sorry, had to through in that old cliched saying.

I don't care for PVP in MMOs to begin with. Most of the time its all about who has the better gear or who is higher in level, not any skill at all. go play a fps or rts if you want PVP.

I played on a PVP WoW server for a little while. The only reason I did so was because I had some friends who played on it. Every time I would go out to try to do quests to level up or get gear, I would get ganked by 7-8 players of the opposite team who were at minimum 10 levels above me. I believe I was at lvl 28 or 29 when I quit. Most of the time I would try to quest in a neutral area, I'd get ganked and camped by 7-8 people who were at least lvl 38. Just one of them could have kicked my ass, but they needed 8 of them? Why would they even bother with someone so low? I don't think they got any xp or points or anything for it. It was just to harass other people. WTF are you supposed to do?

If it was a fair fight it wouldn't be so bad, but that rarely happens.

When I'm trying to level or do quests, dying every 5 minutes and not getting anything done is a huge fucking waste of my (limited) time. I'm was paying money to play this game and I can't even fucking enjoy it?

Maybe all my PVP experiences are just bad ones? I just don't think it belongs in an MMO.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Oakenfold
I'll give an example, orc is farming ore, nightelf is also farming ore. They both want the ore. They have racial tensions, would it not be assumed that they would fight over that which they desire? With protections in place (level limits, zone protection, team protections) it prevents this natural occurrence from happening.

Actually, I'd say that the two should be smart enough to realize that starting a fight with one another could cause an escalated situation that would simply end up slowing down their entire purpose for being there in the first place: ore.

This is why I can't play on PVP servers and I transfered all 10 of my characters off a PVP server in WoW. I'm too logical for a situation like that. If I'm farming something, I leave other people alone, because if we start killing each other, we end up spending more time doing that than farming like we planned. It becomes counter-productive.

Originally posted by: pontifex
I played on a PVP WoW server for a little while. The only reason I did so was because I had some friends who played on it. Every time I would go out to try to do quests to level up or get gear, I would get ganked by 7-8 players of the opposite team who were at minimum 10 levels above me. I believe I was at lvl 28 or 29 when I quit. Most of the time I would try to quest in a neutral area, I'd get ganked and camped by 7-8 people who were at least lvl 38. Just one of them could have kicked my ass, but they needed 8 of them? Why would they even bother with someone so low? I don't think they got any xp or points or anything for it. It was just to harass other people. WTF are you supposed to do?

If it was a fair fight it wouldn't be so bad, but that rarely happens.

When I'm trying to level or do quests, dying every 5 minutes and not getting anything done is a huge fucking waste of my (limited) time. I'm was paying money to play this game and I can't even fucking enjoy it?

Maybe all my PVP experiences are just bad ones? I just don't think it belongs in an MMO.

Understandable, my friend... I think such behavior just makes the wheel spin... again (yes, bad Teron Gorefiend reference).

 

[Dangerer]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Oakenfold

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats

Originally posted by: pontifex
ruh roh! you can't gank low level players now?

What it means is now an enemy can enter the same pve areas as you, disable the pvp flag, and there's nothing you can do about it. Not exactly a thrilling idea considering the game is called Warhammer.

That's really weak. It should be PvP on or PvE only. This game is starting to sound like WoW.

Originally posted by: pontifex
it seems like its always the same type of people who complain about stuff like this - leet dood gankers. not that i'm suggesting you're one of them, but those are the only type of people that i can imagine having an issue with this.

if i wanted to spend my limited play time doing a pve quest (something I want to do witn my time and technically my money), i shouldn't have to worry about some idiot with nothing better to do than to harass me.

I disagree. The beauty of pvp is that it makes doing that quest that much harder and imo it makes it more real. The risk vs. reward concept, you appreciate the little things that much more plus don't you think by having certain protections in place it makes the game less realistic?
I'll give an example, orc is farming ore, nightelf is also farming ore. They both want the ore. They have racial tensions, would it not be assumed that they would fight over that which they desire? With protections in place (level limits, zone protection, team protections) it prevents this natural occurrence from happening.

Just my .02 Pontifex.

A general comment, I thought the goal of this game was to cater more towards the pvp crowd?

you do have a point. but fireballs and dragons are realistic? sorry, had to through in that old cliched saying.

I don't care for PVP in MMOs to begin with. Most of the time its all about who has the better gear or who is higher in level, not any skill at all. go play a fps or rts if you want PVP.

I played on a PVP WoW server for a little while. The only reason I did so was because I had some friends who played on it. Every time I would go out to try to do quests to level up or get gear, I would get ganked by 7-8 players of the opposite team who were at minimum 10 levels above me. I believe I was at lvl 28 or 29 when I quit. Most of the time I would try to quest in a neutral area, I'd get ganked and camped by 7-8 people who were at least lvl 38. Just one of them could have kicked my ass, but they needed 8 of them? Why would they even bother with someone so low? I don't think they got any xp or points or anything for it. It was just to harass other people. WTF are you supposed to do?

If it was a fair fight it wouldn't be so bad, but that rarely happens.

When I'm trying to level or do quests, dying every 5 minutes and not getting anything done is a huge fucking waste of my (limited) time. I'm was paying money to play this game and I can't even fucking enjoy it?

Maybe all my PVP experiences are just bad ones? I just don't think it belongs in an MMO.

wow you must have been some kind of a magnet for gankers. I've been playing wow since release on multiple PVP servers and have never experienced anything that severe.

 

[JD50]

Wow, this is lame. I thought this game was supposed to be more PvP centric?

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Kur
In some of their developer video blogs they are huge on PVP zones, PVP this, PVP that, but PVP flagging? That's not part of PVP, that's being a carebear.

You do realize that they will have PVE zones right? I believe in the begining it will be 80% PVE to 20% PvP in regards to content and zones with end game being 80% PVP to 20% PVE. Ever play DAOC if so then you know what to expect from Mythic.

Regardless this is not the big deal as anyone who kept up with the game already knew that PVE zones were going to be off limits to PvP'ing unless you flagged yourself. Of course this doesn't mean that you can just stroll into a dwarf camp if you are a Orc or Goblin and not get your ass handed to you on a platter by the guards there or get owned because you are flagged in a PVE zone.

Of course if you want a total PVP centric game I'd suggest you try EVE ONLINE. Just don't cry if you get your 150 million ISK space ship gets blown up and you are podded the moment you step into low sec space. Or worse yet you are the victim of a suicide ganker in high sec space or fall for someones scam ganking ploy via the usage of gang mechanics.

 

[Markbnj]

For the moment I trust Mythic to engineer the RvR aspects of the game. And I think the term "RvR" as opposed to "PvP" is very important as a distinction. The flagging issue sounds wow-esque, but I know from friends in the beta that other aspects of the game are really original. So for now it's wait and see.

 

[Skacer]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
The people spoke with their money. They told every MMORPG developer out there that they don't want a complex or engaging game, but, rather, a nice shiny treadmill.

What amazing MMO failed because people didn't give it enough money?

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Dangerer

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Oakenfold

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats

Originally posted by: pontifex
ruh roh! you can't gank low level players now?

What it means is now an enemy can enter the same pve areas as you, disable the pvp flag, and there's nothing you can do about it. Not exactly a thrilling idea considering the game is called Warhammer.

That's really weak. It should be PvP on or PvE only. This game is starting to sound like WoW.

Originally posted by: pontifex
it seems like its always the same type of people who complain about stuff like this - leet dood gankers. not that i'm suggesting you're one of them, but those are the only type of people that i can imagine having an issue with this.

if i wanted to spend my limited play time doing a pve quest (something I want to do witn my time and technically my money), i shouldn't have to worry about some idiot with nothing better to do than to harass me.

I disagree. The beauty of pvp is that it makes doing that quest that much harder and imo it makes it more real. The risk vs. reward concept, you appreciate the little things that much more plus don't you think by having certain protections in place it makes the game less realistic?
I'll give an example, orc is farming ore, nightelf is also farming ore. They both want the ore. They have racial tensions, would it not be assumed that they would fight over that which they desire? With protections in place (level limits, zone protection, team protections) it prevents this natural occurrence from happening.

Just my .02 Pontifex.

A general comment, I thought the goal of this game was to cater more towards the pvp crowd?

you do have a point. but fireballs and dragons are realistic? sorry, had to through in that old cliched saying.

I don't care for PVP in MMOs to begin with. Most of the time its all about who has the better gear or who is higher in level, not any skill at all. go play a fps or rts if you want PVP.

I played on a PVP WoW server for a little while. The only reason I did so was because I had some friends who played on it. Every time I would go out to try to do quests to level up or get gear, I would get ganked by 7-8 players of the opposite team who were at minimum 10 levels above me. I believe I was at lvl 28 or 29 when I quit. Most of the time I would try to quest in a neutral area, I'd get ganked and camped by 7-8 people who were at least lvl 38. Just one of them could have kicked my ass, but they needed 8 of them? Why would they even bother with someone so low? I don't think they got any xp or points or anything for it. It was just to harass other people. WTF are you supposed to do?

If it was a fair fight it wouldn't be so bad, but that rarely happens.

When I'm trying to level or do quests, dying every 5 minutes and not getting anything done is a huge fucking waste of my (limited) time. I'm was paying money to play this game and I can't even fucking enjoy it?

Maybe all my PVP experiences are just bad ones? I just don't think it belongs in an MMO.

wow you must have been some kind of a magnet for gankers. I've been playing wow since release on multiple PVP servers and have never experienced anything that severe.

your in the minority, ive seen people camped for hours by the same group of people, the victm normally just logs off, its happened to me before, playing an alt in hillsbrad i was killed and camped by 9 lvl 70s, for about 9 hours, and yes really 9 FUCKING HOURS, reason i know this is cause i can dual box, so instead of loggin off i just used the other comp and got on my main and yes 9 hours later they were still there and killed me every time i tried to rez and run away, i actually thought it was funny, id die and like 10 min later id rez and try and run and get killed again, then id go back to doing whatever on my main

its actually sad that people have nothing better to do in some games then harass those just trying to play it, alot of people quit WoW after TBC came out because so many people at 70 would just camp low lvl zones,

ive never understood why or how someone can take pleasure in ruining a game for someone else

 

[Bushwicktrini]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: Genx87
EA is getting thier hands involved I see. Clearly trying to make it WoWesque with the hope it will somehow be as successful.

Should be interesting to see how else they will dumb it down for the masses by release.

The people spoke with their money. They told every MMORPG developer out there that they don't want a complex or engaging game, but, rather, a nice shiny treadmill.

What is "complex or engaging" about PVP in a MMO? PVP in MMO's is about gear, levels over target and how much backup you have. SWG, WOW EVE take your pick it's all the same. If I see you and I have better gear your dead, I see you and I have 10+ levels on you your dead, I see you and I have three or more friend with me your dead. What is complex or engaging about that?

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Bushwicktrini

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: Genx87
EA is getting thier hands involved I see. Clearly trying to make it WoWesque with the hope it will somehow be as successful.

Should be interesting to see how else they will dumb it down for the masses by release.

The people spoke with their money. They told every MMORPG developer out there that they don't want a complex or engaging game, but, rather, a nice shiny treadmill.

What is "complex or engaging" about PVP in a MMO? PVP in MMO's is about gear, levels over target and how much backup you have. SWG, WOW EVE take your pick it's all the same. If I see you and I have better gear your dead, I see you and I have 10+ levels on you your dead, I see you and I have three or more friend with me your dead. What is complex or engaging about that?

thats not totally true if the gear or lvl difference isnt massive Skill can and often does win out, sometimes even the numbers difference,

 

[pontifex]

the only skill is memorizing what skills are assigned to what keys so you can push them faster than the other guy.

 

[Beev]

Pretty much. I pvp'd in WoW for quite a while, and level > gear > skill. It's unfortunate, but there really isn't a way to balance that, short of giving everyone equal gear.

 

[Bushwicktrini]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Bushwicktrini

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: Genx87
EA is getting thier hands involved I see. Clearly trying to make it WoWesque with the hope it will somehow be as successful.

Should be interesting to see how else they will dumb it down for the masses by release.

The people spoke with their money. They told every MMORPG developer out there that they don't want a complex or engaging game, but, rather, a nice shiny treadmill.

What is "complex or engaging" about PVP in a MMO? PVP in MMO's is about gear, levels over target and how much backup you have. SWG, WOW EVE take your pick it's all the same. If I see you and I have better gear your dead, I see you and I have 10+ levels on you your dead, I see you and I have three or more friend with me your dead. What is complex or engaging about that?

thats not totally true if the gear or lvl difference isnt massive Skill can and often does win out, sometimes even the numbers difference,

In WOW 10+ means death unless your a twink,he/she is an idiot or your a warlock/hunter cause fear/trap owns