Putting Together a Computer for the Average User

[us3rnotfound]

Hi, I've been assigned to put together a computer for basically a non-gamer, casual web surfer, basic photo editing, etc etc, and he wants it to last for the next 7 years.

Now I know the most vital information is budget - he is not specific, he says anything that is necessary - put it in the box.

So, AT GH, go to work and put together a nice system that will last for 7 years. Or, point me to another thread where this same kind of system is discussed, because even though I have tons of experience with building computers and troubleshooting and so forth, I have been out of the loop so long and I really do not even know where to start - cheap AMD X2 or Conroe?

 

[Slugbait]

I would go with a system based on a Socket 478 Northwood core. Way more than necessary for the tasks as detailed, but peppy. A half-gig of memory would be overkill, but nice to have if using an NT operating system like XP. You could probably pick up a complete system at a garage sale for around $150. I would suggest not going with anything less than a Rage Pro for the video. Then replace the PSU and various fans, and it should do exactly as described, plus last about 4 to 7 years.

 

[jpeyton]

Give your friend this link and tell him he can send a thank-you card to jpeyton on AnandTech.

Also tell your friend that no consumer-level computer is built to last 7 years guaranteed. That's not saying a computer won't last 7 years; just that neither you, nor I, nor any manufacturer can guarantee it. Extended warranties are crap; most computer problems show up within the original warranty period. Back your data up regularly use your PC through the end of its useful life, then buy another.

 

[us3rnotfound]

Ok jpeyton by last for 7 years did you mean still quick enough for everyday tasks or not break for 7 years? I'm pretty sure I haven't had a computer literally die on me, unless I install a Coolmax bullsh!t powersupply or use non brand memory in a PC Chips motherboard or something .

 

[VirtualLarry]

I built a nice little rig for my mom around a C2D Celeron 440 (2.0GHz, single-core), a Gigabyte 8I865G-775-RH rev2.0 mobo, a Lite-On 20X DVD-RW IDE, a Seagate 250GB IDE (5-year warranty), 1GB (2x512MB) of PC3200 RAM, and XP for a pretty cheap price, under $300. All in a nice low-profile micro-ATX case that takes up little room, and very little power. (CPU alone draws only 35W. The CPU fan barely even spins up, until I disabled the smart fan controls.)

It should suffice for basic tasks (web surfing, playing CDs/DVDs, writing) for many years to come. The only thing I didn't put in there was an HDTV tuner, which I considered originally before doing the micro-atx low-profile thing.

 

[Rockhound1]

I agree with jpeyton. Refer your friend to Dell. For a low-end system, you would be hard pressed building a computer for less than what you can order from Dell.

If you decide to build, I would stay away from older platforms such as socket 478, 754, and 939. It doesn't make sense right now, especially considering how inexpensive an AM2 system (motherboard and processor) is and the fact that DDR2 memory is cheaper than DDR1 memory.

If you want a list of recommended parts, I am sure the folks on this forum can help you out. But the first thing you want to do is decide if you want to build a computer or not. If you decide to build, then give us a budget. We already know your friend is a casual user and not a gamer.

 

[jfall]

Dude your getting a Dell

 

[JDMnAR1]

In a situation like that, I always recommend either the current Dell deal or the Dell outlet. If it is someone who doesn't know enough to really articulate their requirements, I assume that means that I will be expected to support whatever I might build them, so I refer them to Dell so they have a warranty through someone other than myself.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Dell is almost never a good idea unless you need tech support or a warranty. Try something like this:

NEWEGG:
Philips SPD2413BD retail DVD burner (w/Nero)
Foxconn TLM436-CN300C-01 retail mATX mini tower (w/300W PSU)
Samsung SFD321B/LBL1 OEM floppy drive
Seagate ST3320620AS OEM 320GB hard disk
FSP Group ATX350-PA retail PSU
Kingston KVR800D2K2/2GR retail 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2-800
Gigabyte GA-945GCM-S2 retail motherboard
Intel BX80557E4400 retail Core 2 Duo E4400
Microsoft 66I-00715 OEM Windows Vista Home Premium 32-bit
Microsoft 070-03125 OEM Works 8.5
$605.46 shipped

If you need them, add the following peripherals:
Logitech 967973-0403 OEM keyboard & optical mouse
Hanns·G HW-191DPB retail 19" widescreen LCD
$806.03 shipped

A similarly-configured Dell is going to cost $100-$200 more, and still won't be quite as speedy as the Newegg build above.

 

[JDMnAR1]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou
Dell is almost never a good idea unless you need tech support or a warranty. Try something like this:

NEWEGG:
Philips SPD2413BD retail DVD burner (w/Nero)
Foxconn TLM436-CN300C-01 retail mATX mini tower (w/300W PSU)
Samsung SFD321B/LBL1 OEM floppy drive
Seagate ST3320620AS OEM 320GB hard disk
FSP Group ATX350-PA retail PSU
Kingston KVR800D2K2/2GR retail 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2-800
Gigabyte GA-945GCM-S2 retail motherboard
Intel BX80557E4400 retail Core 2 Duo E4400
Microsoft 66I-00715 OEM Windows Vista Home Premium 32-bit
Microsoft 070-03125 OEM Works 8.5
$605.46 shipped

If you need them, add the following peripherals:
Logitech 967973-0403 OEM keyboard & optical mouse
Hanns·G HW-191DPB retail 19" widescreen LCD
$806.03 shipped

A similarly-configured Dell is going to cost $100-$200 more, and still won't be quite as speedy as the Newegg build above.

Not necessarily true at the outlet: E4400 system for $569 - includes a one year warranty with on-site service.

Edit: fixed link

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Yes, you can get refurbished Dells for about the same price as all-new Newegg components. I'd still recommend a custom build unless you need a warranty.

 

[KAZANI]

If I wanted to build a PC to keep for 7 years I wouldn't settle for anything than the current top architecture. Today this would be a quad-core processor. Considering the multi-threaded direction in which software development is headed this makes even more sense.

 

[jpeyton]

Sigh.

Let us review the user's requirements again:

basically a non-gamer, casual web surfer, basic photo editing

What we've described is something any single-core Sempron or Celeron can take care of.

Even a $450 Dell Athlon X2 with 19" LCD is overkill. But better safe than sorry, right?

hurtstotalktoyou recommending an $800 custom setup and KAZANI recommending a quad-core setup are both beyond reason.

In closing, here is a word of advice for people on this forum:

The gap between what a user thinks they need and what they actually need can be quite large. When someone in General Hardware asks for system advice, unless already stated, the first thing you should ask is "what's it going to be used for?" Make your recommendation on that, with budget as a secondary consideration.

And just because a fool and his money want to be parted does not mean you should facilitate it with bogus recommendations.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Sigh.

Let us review the user's requirements again:

basically a non-gamer, casual web surfer, basic photo editing

What we've described is something any single-core Sempron or Celeron can take care of.

Even a $450 Dell Athlon X2 with 19" LCD is overkill. But better safe than sorry, right?

hurtstotalktoyou recommending an $800 custom setup and KAZANI recommending a quad-core setup are both beyond reason.

An X2 might be a decent idea if all that was needed was a casual web browsing PC, but you have to remember that this thing is intended to last seven years! The $30-$40 Sempron you suggested will simply not last that long. Can you imagine, for example, running the latest web browsers with Flash, youtube and high speed internet on a K6-2 or Pentium MMX? Yet those were the sub-$50 choices of seven years ago today.

A quad-core might not be a bad idea, but I think an E4400 has a better price-performance ratio. The 19" widescreen isn't recommended if he already has a well-kept 17" or larger CRT, but if all he's got is an old 15-incher, or if his CRT isn't in very good condition, a new monitor might be in order. And right now a 19" widescreen LCD, which only costs $50 or so more than a basic 17" CRT, seems like the right choice.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou
An X2 might be a decent idea if all that was needed was a casual web browsing PC, but you have to remember that this thing is intended to last seven years! The $30-$40 Sempron you suggested will simply not last that long.

I suggested an Athlon X2 4000+, actually, but I was making a point about today's low-end processors being overkill for average use.

Can you imagine, for example, running the latest web browsers with Flash, youtube and high speed internet on a K6-2 or Pentium MMX? Yet those were the sub-$50 choices of seven years ago today.

Back in 2000, we had Willamette Pentium 4s, Pentium 3s were commonplace, and AMD released the Socket A K7 Athlon. Any of those processors will run Firefox, Flash, and YouTube without an issue.

A quad-core might not be a bad idea, but I think an E4400 has a better price-performance ratio.

For everyday tasks, the price/performance ratio of an AMD X2 is a lot higher than a Core 2 Duo.

Why not spend $450 on a Dell right now (saving $400 from building your own Core 2 Duo machine as you suggested), and buy a $400 computer 4 years down the line as an upgrade? A $400 computer in 2011 will run circles around an E4400.

 

[us3rnotfound]

Well whatever I end up doing with a custom build, I'm going to invest his money in a more than decent PSU and maybe even power protection. What do you think?

 

[dclive]

That's silly for a machine worth $300 or less. If it had dual SLI and peltier cooling, you might think about it. Otherwise, save your money for something useful.

Get a machine for $150 at a garage sale (I recently sold a Dell P4/2.4 400SC 'server' machine for $225) and you're all set.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

I have to say, I'm a little bit confused at some of the responses. Maybe I should emphasize one of of the OP's requirements:

he wants it to last for the next 7 years

Think about that for a moment. At first, one might think that a machine that can edit photos, browse the web and perform other mundane tasks nowadays will be fine for the same tasks seven years from now. But that's not really the way things tend to work out when all is said and done.

As hardware technology advances over the years, so do the requirements for the latest software. While a Sempron or Celeron may yet be able to run future titles, they may not be able run them well enough to be practical. In the mean time, used machines have the additional issue of operating system support (Windows XP expires in 5 1/2 years, assuming Microsoft sticks to their schedule, while earlier editions all expire in a year or less, if they haven't already).

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Back in 2000, we had Willamette Pentium 4s, Pentium 3s were commonplace, and AMD released the Socket A K7 Athlon. Any of those processors will run Firefox, Flash, and YouTube without an issue.

Sure, which is why a seven-year life span for a PC isn't out of the question. But getting a Sempron or even an X2 might not be enough power for tomorrow's software, as mentioned previously.

Why not spend $450 on a Dell right now (saving $400 from building your own Core 2 Duo machine as you suggested), and buy a $400 computer 4 years down the line as an upgrade? A $400 computer in 2011 will run circles around an E4400.

It's not that a four-year cycle isn't a good idea, but it's just not what the fella asked for.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: us3rnotfound
Well whatever I end up doing with a custom build, I'm going to invest his money in a more than decent PSU and maybe even power protection. What do you think?

A *reliable* PSU is a good idea, but I don't think you'll need anything super-powerful for a non-gaming rig. The 350W Fortron PSU I mentioned above should do the trick. If you have a Fry's B&M close by, you can get an Ultra Microfly SFF case with an Ultra V-series 400W PSU for ~$47 after rebate. I own a pair of V-series models (one 400W, one 500W), and they perform quite nicely. The rebates came back without a hitch, too.

As for power protection, I don't think that's necessary. In my many years of computing, I've had power outages only a handful of times, none of which caused any data loss, much less hardware failure. A surge protector ($5 at your local Walmart) and overvoltage protection on the PSU (such as on the afore-mentioned Fortron and Ultra units) should be plenty of hardware protection. For data protection, just make sure he frequently saves his work during thunderstorms. Unless you can find some kind of really amazing deal, I would hold off on a UPS.

 

[FrozenPie]

Now this is where Linux could come in and help

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou
I have to say, I'm a little bit confused at some of the responses. Maybe I should emphasize one of of the OP's requirements

The problem is that there is no good reason to have a 7 year life cycle for a 'desktop' PC. In every possible scenario, it's better to spend less now and upgrade incrementally or all at once after a few years.

We're talking about a 'desktop' PC. If this was supposed to be some specialized system that couldn't be moved, turned off, or accessed for 7 years, then your suggestions would make sense.

Sure, which is why a seven-year life span for a PC isn't out of the question. But getting a Sempron or even an X2 might not be enough power for tomorrow's software, as mentioned previously.

Has IE, Firefox or Opera changed their CPU usage dramatically over their lifespan? Has Flash or Shockwave? If anything, they've been optimized over the years to use less resources.

It's not that a four-year cycle isn't a good idea, but it's just not what the fella asked for.

If a 4-year cycle is a good idea, I wouldn't promote a bad idea like a 7-year life cycle. As it stands, the OP has offered no compelling reason why a desktop PC user would need their computer to last a period of 7 years.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: jpeytonIf a 4-year cycle is a good idea, I wouldn't promote a bad idea like a 7-year life cycle. As it stands, the OP has offered no compelling reason why a desktop PC user would need their computer to last a period of 7 years.

I suppose you have a point there. Still, I'd suggest a *little* more than $450. Something like this might work

Philips retail DVD burner
Foxconn mATX mini-tower w/300W PSU
Samsung black floppy drive
Seagate 320GB hard disk
FSP Group 350W PSU
Wintec AMPO 1GB (2x512MB) DDR2-800 SDRAM
Vista Home Premium 32-bit
Biostar TForce TF7025-M2
X2 4000+ "Brisbane"
$498.93 shipped

 

[nineball9]

OP - one item I have not seen addressed in this thread to any extent is photo editing. Does your user own a digital camera? If so, what storage medium does it use and what are the connectivity requirements (USB, Firewire, various media cards etc)? Does the user wish to scan in old photographs and/or slides? Does s/he want to store a lot of photos on a hard drive?

What about a printer? Your customer will probably want to print his/her edited photos.

You won't have a happy customer who, after you have elaborated on the benefits of a top end PSU or processor exclaims "but I can't plug in my camera!"

"Basic photo editing" covers a lot of ground. Software to remove red-eye and for cropping will likely come with Vista, printer software or perhaps the customer's camera. A slightly more advanced photo editing and managing software suite may be what the customer would prefer, though you won't need something as elaborate as Photoshop!

Good luck!

 

[BadRobot]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou
Samsung SFD321B/LBL1 OEM floppy drive

lol floppy drive

 

[KAZANI]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Can you imagine, for example, running the latest web browsers with Flash, youtube and high speed internet on a K6-2 or Pentium MMX? Yet those were the sub-$50 choices of seven years ago today.

Back in 2000, we had Willamette Pentium 4s, Pentium 3s were commonplace, and AMD released the Socket A K7 Athlon. Any of those processors will run Firefox, Flash, and YouTube without an issue.

Athlon and P3 were not budget chips in 2000. Launched late 2000, the P4 Willamette was a premature stopgap release and it costed 800+. I know what a budget chip in 2000 was beacause I bought one and there is no way it could cope with today's web content.

Why not spend $450 on a Dell right now (saving $400 from building your own Core 2 Duo machine as you suggested), and buy a $400 computer 4 years down the line as an upgrade? A $400 computer in 2011 will run circles around an E4400.

Will it run circles around a 900$ pc with a Q6600? According to you a user is only entitled to perpetual mediocre performance through 4 year upgrade circles. I propose a system that is top-notch today and will still be a decent performer after 4 years. I don't think that it is unreasonable that some people just don't want the hassle involved with chasing the "bung for buck" mirage and would much rather settle with a machine that will work fine for 7 years.

Besides, long term builds help reduce e-waste. :thumbsup: