Putin Says War in Iraq Encouraged Terror
- Thread starter maddogchen
- Start date
Agreed. It was like pouring gasoline on a fire. Big mistake and unwarrented. Other options should have beemn explored, like a covert operation to remove Saddam. Instead, the war has bonded young muslums to a cause they are being told is noble, based on the actions of an insane president we have in office now. Thanks republicans. You sure know how to pick em, don't you?
your welcome tripleshot
the invasion if iraq has been a success. when a threat exists it has to be dealt with, not coddled
the invasion if iraq has been a success. when a threat exists it has to be dealt with, not coddled
Originally posted by: Tripleshot
Agreed. It was like pouring gasoline on a fire. Big mistake and unwarrented. Other options should have beemn explored, like a covert operation to remove Saddam. Instead, the war has bonded young muslums to a cause they are being told is noble, based on the actions of an insane president we have in office now. Thanks republicans. You sure know how to pick em, don't you?
The Dems also votes for the war. Shame on me for bringing that up.
Originally posted by: Sternfan
Originally posted by: Tripleshot
Agreed. It was like pouring gasoline on a fire. Big mistake and unwarrented. Other options should have beemn explored, like a covert operation to remove Saddam. Instead, the war has bonded young muslums to a cause they are being told is noble, based on the actions of an insane president we have in office now. Thanks republicans. You sure know how to pick em, don't you?
The Dems also votes for the war. Shame on me for bringing that up.
Stern Fan... Let me just complete the rest of this thread for you.... It's all been said a thousand times.
[DEM]But the Dems were lied to...
[REP]Saddam never gave reporting to what he did with all the WMD's he had admitted to having...
[DEM]But the US should have waited for the UN to take action and not act alone.
[REP]But the US didn't act alone... they had support from the majority of all nations.
[DEM]So give me a list of those supporting.
[REP]there is no list I can find
[DEM]So you are lying we are in an unust and illegal war. IMPEACH BUSH AND HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE FOR WAR CRIMES
[REP]Are you actually breathing the same oxygen I am?
[DEM]You are willing to believe anythign the Bush Regime puts out.
[REP]No, we are there because Saddam had over 10 years to remove the WMDs and we shouldn't have waitied that long.
[DEM]Where is your proof he had WMD's?
[REP]We didn't have to supply proof, the burden of proof was on Iraq.
[DEM]Then why did we send weapon inspectors who now say there are no WMD's
[REP]Because the US was attempting to do everything they could to prevent war.
[DEM]Oh, you expect me to believe the words of a president who didn't win the election?
[REP] Get over it, you lost
[random lurker] YOU GOT PWN3D
[DEM]No, it was stolen.
[REP]It'a called the electoral college.
[DEM]It's called wrong.
Etc...
Etc...
Etc...
I disagree, I think its similiar. After they invaded Chechnya the first time, it spawned lots of anti-Russian Muslim fighters to resist them. They forced Russia out. But these groups still existed and crossed borders to attack other former soviet countries with muslim majorities. They also attracted many muslims outside of Chechnya to their cause, getting weapons from them too. After Russia invaded Chechnya a second time, and took over the country, a lot of these groups survived and continue to attack targets in Chechnya. THis time though they also took their attack deep into Russia, like the attacks in Moscow with the hostages at a theatre and suicide bombings at a concert. Many non-chechnyan muslims joined in to support them, with some al qaeda too like those in neighboring Georgia who were kicked out when Georgian forces closed in on their bases.
The point I am making is that Putin has the same situation as Iraq, where he's mired in a guerilla war against insurgents who are helped by terrorists. Russian soldiers continue to die at a lot higher rate than soldiers in Iraq, but the media is not allowed to report figures or move around freely as in Iraq. When Putin first came into power he said he would remove troops from Chechnya, but he hasn't done it, and seems to be more entrenched than ever. With all the problems in Chechnya, Putin shouldn't be the one complaining about Iraq.
So....in conclusion:
Same thing can be said about Russia's intervention into Chechnya, that it was a mistake that has encouraged terrorists actions there.
Where's the UN role in Chechnya? huh? why don't you let the media find out whats really going on there?
Same thing can be said about Chechnya. More and more terrorist attacks, Russian soldiers dying at more than one a day. Casualty figures that are kept under wraps and not given to the public.
There were no terrorists in Chechnya before Russia went in either! But now even worse, there are terrorists spreading from Chechnya into neighboring parts and even into Moscow.
I disagree. Because after they moved into Chechnya, a lot of former Soviet Regions split anyway, and these splits were peaceful, not involving any wars. If Russia had not invaded, Chechnya would have gone the way of Georgia, Armenia, and all those other former soviet states that I am sorry but I cannot spell. Chechnya recently voted under Russian "help", their own President and government. If they had not invaded, Chechnya would be in a similiar situation now, where its separate but it would be a lot more peaceful, without the terrorists and insurgents
Also Russia invaded Chechnya twice. First time was disastrous for them and they pulled out fast. Second time was to fix their mistakes which unfortunately they haven't done yet.
Also Russia invaded Chechnya twice. First time was disastrous for them and they pulled out fast. Second time was to fix their mistakes which unfortunately they haven't done yet.
Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
- 15,776
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If I may offer a factual correction to your cute little diversion. There's been enough right-wing misinformation spread about the "coalition" of the so-called willing without you inventing more.
Even more importantly, except for the U.S., those few "coalition" members represent very little of the world's population and power. They represent less than 20% of the world's population (including the U.S.), and even then the people of the "willing" countries largely opposed the war. Excluding the U.S. and Britain, the "willing" represent only about 20% of the world GDP. Only Britain and Australia offered more than a couple hundred troops. Many of the "willing" countries offered no support whatsoever beyond allowing their names to be listed. At least a couple of "willing" countries denied supporting the invasion at all.
Many of the "willing" are there because we either paid them directly, or threatened to withhold aid. Eight countries are there because they want into NATO; Bush said the U.S. would veto the memberships of any country that did not join the "willing". Outside of politics, that's usually called extortion.
More noteworthy is all of the major countries who are NOT on the list: Russia, France, Germany, China, India, Canada, Mexico, Belgium, Austria, Greece, South Africa along with most of the rest of Africa, Brazil along with most of Central and South America, and Saudi Arabia along with most of the Middle Eastern countries who did support the 1991 action. Turkey is listed as "willing" (after we offered billions of dollars), but their support was inconsistent to say the least. The "willing" does NOT include 11 of the 15 UN Security Council members.
Just to set the record straight.
First, it was nowhere near a "majority of all nations". It was only 40-some out of about 170. (Approximate numbers from memory. If you have the exact numbers, post them.) Second, the list is readily available on the White House web site. Some of the nations on that list are questionable, however.
Even more importantly, except for the U.S., those few "coalition" members represent very little of the world's population and power. They represent less than 20% of the world's population (including the U.S.), and even then the people of the "willing" countries largely opposed the war. Excluding the U.S. and Britain, the "willing" represent only about 20% of the world GDP. Only Britain and Australia offered more than a couple hundred troops. Many of the "willing" countries offered no support whatsoever beyond allowing their names to be listed. At least a couple of "willing" countries denied supporting the invasion at all.
Many of the "willing" are there because we either paid them directly, or threatened to withhold aid. Eight countries are there because they want into NATO; Bush said the U.S. would veto the memberships of any country that did not join the "willing". Outside of politics, that's usually called extortion.
More noteworthy is all of the major countries who are NOT on the list: Russia, France, Germany, China, India, Canada, Mexico, Belgium, Austria, Greece, South Africa along with most of the rest of Africa, Brazil along with most of Central and South America, and Saudi Arabia along with most of the Middle Eastern countries who did support the 1991 action. Turkey is listed as "willing" (after we offered billions of dollars), but their support was inconsistent to say the least. The "willing" does NOT include 11 of the 15 UN Security Council members.
Just to set the record straight.
IMHO, Iraq and Chechnya aren't comparable. What russian troops doing in Chechnya is plain and simple genocide. Similar tactis were used against all invaded countries after WW2: accuse country on terrorism/bantitism/whatever and then go "liberate" them (meaning killing most of the smarter/active population), fabricate "fair elections" and put puppet government on charge. The russian government has easier to not let any spectators in than try to explain piles of civil corpses laying around everywhere. Good old Stalin managed to wipe away almost 90% of Chechenyan population while back...
<- from Ex-USSR
<- from Ex-USSR
Putin is one to be talking. Chechnya anyone? :rollseyes:
In a sense I believe the U.S. has sought to make Iraq a flashpoint for the terrorists. Fight them there rather than on U.S. soil. I seem to recall the neocons having said as much.
In a sense I believe the U.S. has sought to make Iraq a flashpoint for the terrorists. Fight them there rather than on U.S. soil. I seem to recall the neocons having said as much.
Until they kill them all and their terrorist spawning mthfkers! j/k
Hopefully when we develop a free and democratic Iraq that shines brightly in the Muslim world, extinguishing the flames of fanatical hatred that drives terrorism.
Hey, you can always hope for the best.
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