Push for $15 minimum wage

[UglyCasanova]

Saw this on the NYT earlier today, their editorial board pushing Hillary to join onto $15 minimum wage.


I can't help but scratch my head at this. Econ 101 taught me that introducing a price floor on anything creates a surplus of that product, which in this case is labor (people).

Couple that with the fact that now business have a huge incentive to develop alternatives, and in this day and time the technology exists to do so. The true minimum wage is $0, and people are going to price themselves to that. There will be those that will benefit from this, but in the long run businesses will develop technologies that replace low skilled (even mid to high skilled) workers, it's inevitable.

I get that minimum wage is no way to go through life, and no you can't raise a family on it. What we should do imo is focus these people into some sort of skilled trade. Make community colleges affordable so they can learn something useful. Hell develop the skills in HS for those not college bound (and restrict college to those that should actually go to it). But putting a floor for how much you can pay someone for anything is only shooting themselves in the foot in the long run.

I'd be curious to see if anyone disagrees and their rationale if so?

 

[JSt0rm]

pushing everyone into skilled trade will have the same effect on supply and demand. Just skilled trades will make less because so many people will be working them.

The real answer is a minimum income, free college and universal health care. Then we will be prepared for a future without work.

 

[glenn1]

pushing everyone into skilled trade will have the same effect on supply and demand. Just skilled trades will make less because so many people will be working them.

The real answer is a minimum income, free college and universal health care. Then we will be prepared for a future without work.

LOL @ "free" stuff. You mean "paid by someone else" stuff. Plus it already exists, it's called enlisting in the armed forces. And most Democrat constituencies have been in the "future without work" paradigm for years.

 

[MongGrel]

Redacted, I'd just sound bitter about reality.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

pushing everyone into skilled trade will have the same effect on supply and demand. Just skilled trades will make less because so many people will be working them.

The real answer is a minimum income, free college and universal health care. Then we will be prepared for a future without work.

What in the hell is free college going to do? Then you just have a surplus of students with worthless degrees.

"A Bachelor's is the new high school diploma" ~Bernie, GEE I WONDER WHY YOU OLD FUCKTARD

 

[highland145]

pushing everyone into skilled trade will have the same effect on supply and demand. Just skilled trades will make less because so many people will be working them.

The real answer is a minimum income, free college and universal health care. Then we will be prepared for a future without work.

Don't tell the "derogatory water guys"...my hedge needs trimming.

 

[Sonikku]

At the very least I wish America had free trade schools. Only trades with demand in the economy of course, skills to pay the bills.

 

[JSt0rm]

LOL @ "free" stuff. You mean "paid by someone else" stuff. Plus it already exists, it's called enlisting in the armed forces. And most Democrat constituencies have been in the "future without work" paradigm for years.

U a simple bitch.

What in the hell is free college going to do? Then you just have a surplus of students with worthless degrees.

"A Bachelor's is the new high school diploma" ~Bernie, GEE I WONDER WHY YOU OLD FUCKTARD

People would go to college to enrich their lives not learn how to be a cog.

Don't tell the "derogatory water guys"...my hedge needs trimming.

The trimming drone will do it. Did you download the shapes you wanted for your bushes and load them into the drone? The drone is doing the entire neighborhood.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

At the very least I wish America had free trade schools. Only trades with demand in the economy of course, skills to pay the bills.

Trade schools aren't even that expensive though. The difference between them and college is that the people that attend the former want to finish as quickly as possible, and do it for the direct purpose of making money. A lot of people attend college because it's fun and they can get shitfaced and put their loans in the back of their head until they graduate/are failed out.

 

[highland145]

People would go to college to enrich their lives not learn how to be a cog.

Sweet but can they mow, suck, blow, edge, hum, etc?

The trimming drone will do it. Did you download the shapes you wanted for your bushes and load them into the drone? The drone is doing the entire neighborhood.

FCC cancelled my drone program. Fecks.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

People would go to college to enrich their lives not learn how to be a cog.

Enrich in what way? And are you implying that plumbers, electricians, etc are more of cogs than the average college graduate?

 

[JSt0rm]

Trade schools aren't even that expensive though. The difference between them and college is that the people that attend the former want to finish as quickly as possible, and do it for the direct purpose of making money. A lot of people attend college because it's fun and they can get shitfaced and put their loans in the back of their head until they graduate/are failed out.

Let people go to college and maybe find a passion or not. Its free so who cares. Its built into the system. In a future without work, Id rather have some people be creative over their lives then learn how to stop a leak.

The rest can play videogames and watch tv/movies for the rest of their lives.

 

[highland145]

Enrich in what way? And are you implying that plumbers, electricians, etc are more of cogs than the average college graduate?

He's trolling. The qualified trades are much higher on the value scale that the "average college grad." Useless fecks.

 

[highland145]

Let people go to college and maybe find a passion or not. Its free so who cares. Its built into the system. In a future without work, Id rather have some people be creative over their lives then learn how to stop a leak.

lol until the toilet is backing up.

 

[JSt0rm]

Enrich in what way? And are you implying that plumbers, electricians, etc are more of cogs than the average college graduate?

Nope. A lot of college grads are cogs as well. Im talking the future here. We will shift our schools to help people develop their skills, read literature and discuss it. Watch fllm and discuss it. Look at art and discuss it. This all creates critical thinking. People can do what they want with thier lives because there will be no work to do anyhow.

Is a wall-e society better?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Let people go to college and maybe find a passion or not. Its free so who cares. Its built into the system. In a future without work, Id rather have some people be creative over their lives then learn how to stop a leak.

The rest can play videogames and watch tv/movies for the rest of their lives.

Free? Built into what system? You're rambling bro.

He's trolling. The qualified trades are much higher on the value scale that the "average college grad." Useless fecks.

Yeah, and apparently an independent electrician that has to debug and diagnose problems all over his city with no one holding his hand is more of a cog than the average guy that gets his BA/BS and goes to work for some random corporation until retirement.

 

[JSt0rm]

lol until the toilet is backing up.

The AI required to unclog a toilet is not so much.

 

[JSt0rm]

Free? Built into what system? You're rambling bro.



Yeah, and apparently an independent electrician that has to debug and diagnose problems all over his city with no one holding his hand is more of a cog than the average guy that gets his BA/BS and goes to work for some random corporation until retirement.

You are thinking about today. Im talking about tomorrow. It is confusing for you because your brain is rigid and slow.

 

[highland145]

The AI required to unclog a toilet is not so much.

True. The ability/desire is great.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Nope. A lot of college grads are cogs as well. Im talking the future here. We will shift our schools to help people develop their skills, read literature and discuss it. Watch fllm and discuss it. Look at art and discuss it. This all creates critical thinking. People can do what they want with thier lives because there will be no work to do anyhow.

Is a wall-e society better?

The arts require the least amount of critical-thinking of any area of study. If we get to a point where there is no work to do, then maybe you'll have a valid point. Until then, 99.9% of the law-abiding world survives by doing or having done work.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

By the way, if we ever get an AI that can diagnose any mechanical or health problem and fix it with only electricity to pay for it, we'll probably be approaching the point where AI can randomly generate art or literature or music without us knowing better.

 

[Atreus21]

You are thinking about today. Im talking about tomorrow. It is confusing for you because your brain is rigid and slow.

You know the real problem with people with slow, rigid brains?

They're not very self aware.

 

[JSt0rm]

The arts require the least amount of critical-thinking of any area of study. If we get to a point where there is no work to do, then maybe you'll have a valid point. Until then, 99.9% of the law-abiding world survives by doing or having done work.

It wont be a black and white moment. As time goes by we will slowly remove jobs from the economy to automation. What do you do with these people? Let them starve? We talked about this in the self driving car thread. Soon we will have no drivers. Through no fault of their own they will no longer have jobs. So we tell them to do something else and that something's pay will become lower. At some point nobody needs to work.

By the way, if we ever get an AI that can diagnose any mechanical or health problem and fix it with only electricity to pay for it, we'll probably be approaching the point where AI can randomly generate art or literature or music without us knowing better.

Computers can make art now. Certainly art can be made by computers but what excites us as humans is connecting in some way with other humans. We will all have that ability to create art and do it in an interesting way as a means of connecting with each other.

We will need a new economic model to take us forward past that point. One that doesnt require winners and losers in a system designed to make you sacrifice your best years for someone else - and Im saying this as someone who has had 2 days off since October.

 

[JSt0rm]

You know the real problem with people with slow, rigid brains?

They're not very self aware.

I would say the real problem with people who have slow rigid brains is when you take the cog away from the wheel it wont know what to do. How do you tackle that?

 

[JSt0rm]

The arts require the least amount of critical-thinking of any area of study.

This is actually false. Just because you dont understand how the sausage is made doesnt mean it doesnt require critical thinking.